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Post by Skaathar on Aug 11, 2021 7:38:32 GMT
Just finished watching the first episode of MCU's What If series on Disney+, figured I'd start the spoiler thread.
So.... what did you guys think?
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 12, 2021 12:41:08 GMT
I enjoyed it, but I see a flaw in the formula. Longform storytelling has taken over with the rise of these streaming services; I think we can all agree that we'd rather have characters and themes fleshed out to a greater degree than we get in most films. And yet this show is essentially remaking a movie in 35 minutes, in animated form no less. It helps that you already have context and familiarity with the characters and plot, in other words you're invested. But you aren't really getting pulled into the story, it's over before it even starts.
One of the things that made the What If comic great was it's tendency to have dark, bittersweet endings. What If was essentially the writers' chance to really go crazy and kill as many characters as they wanted to because it wasn't canon. A story doesn't need to be dark or ultraviolent to be good, obviously, but I'm not sure what the stakes are to a reimagining that begins and ends almost identically to the original work, with a few minor details changed and a few characters transposed.
To continue the comic book comparison while circling back to my original critique, I think we can all agree that stories drawn out over multiple issues were usually better than one offs, and this show is the television equivalent of a weekly one off. Again, it's just hard to get into a story so compacted.
On the production side, one thing that did impress me was the voice talent. Not sure why they couldn't get Chris Evans for episode 1, but they got pretty much everyone else. They didn't have to, I don't think I would've cared if the cast was all new. Still, it was fun knowing it was Atwell, Cooper, Jones, Jackson, Renner, Stan, McDonough, etc.
It was entertaining, I am looking forward to new spins on all of these stories we enjoy so much. But I can't say I'm anticipating each episode as highly as I was some of their other weekly content.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 12, 2021 17:05:47 GMT
I enjoyed it, but I see a flaw in the formula. Longform storytelling has taken over with the rise of these streaming services; I think we can all agree that we'd rather have characters and themes fleshed out to a greater degree than we get in most films. And yet this show is essentially remaking a movie in 35 minutes, in animated form no less. It helps that you already have context and familiarity with the characters and plot, in other words you're invested. But you aren't really getting pulled into the story, it's over before it even starts. One of the things that made the What If comic great was it's tendency to have dark, bittersweet endings. What If was essentially the writers' chance to really go crazy and kill as many characters as they wanted to because it wasn't canon. A story doesn't need to be dark or ultraviolent to be good, obviously, but I'm not sure what the stakes are to a reimagining that begins and ends almost identically to the original work, with a few minor details changed and a few characters transposed. To continue the comic book comparison while circling back to my original critique, I think we can all agree that stories drawn out over multiple issues were usually better than one offs, and this show is the television equivalent of a weekly one off. Again, it's just hard to get into a story so compacted. On the production side, one thing that did impress me was the voice talent. Not sure why they couldn't get Chris Evans for episode 1, but they got pretty much everyone else. They didn't have to, I don't think I would've cared if the cast was all new. Still, it was fun knowing it was Atwell, Cooper, Jones, Jackson, Renner, Stan, McDonough, etc. It was entertaining, I am looking forward to new spins on all of these stories we enjoy so much. But I can't say I'm anticipating each episode as highly as I was some of their other weekly content. I think that's a good way to word it. I watched this with my wife and, although she's watched every single MCU show to date, she isn't quite the Marvel geek that I am. So when we watched this show, I appreciated it for the "what if" element and for the alternate version of the story it offered, but for her it just fell flat. Because now that I think about it, outside of the animation and voice acting there really isn't anything I can objectively praise about the show. The pacing was obviously rushed and the story severely underdeveloped, and what story there was is similar enough to CATFA that it didn't feel that interesting. There were moments of decent character interactions but you couldn't really get into it because of the crammed running time. There's obviously no long-format storytelling to hook you in. So yeah, the main enjoyment factor of this show is basically that it's a cool concept. The novelty of it.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 21, 2021 16:51:44 GMT
Is it just me or do the lead characters in these What If episodes seem far stronger than the originals?
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 25, 2021 22:38:48 GMT
Ok, Episode 3 was a lot better. This episode actually contained a unique story and didn't feel like just a montage of scenes from past shows. Also refreshing that we don't have a Mary Sue protagonist.
I quite enjoyed this episode and I'm excited to see more. Hope the rest are as good if not better.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Sept 1, 2021 12:49:07 GMT
The Doctor Strange episode is easily my favorite one!
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 1, 2021 21:41:50 GMT
The Doctor Strange episode is easily my favorite one! Wasn't my cup of tea but glad you liked it.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 2, 2021 12:19:06 GMT
That Doc Strange episode was a bit of a surprise. Probably my least favorite only because it was so repetitive, but I was impressed that a Disney+ MCU show got so dark.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 8, 2021 18:11:59 GMT
That Doc Strange episode was a bit of a surprise. Probably my least favorite only because it was so repetitive, but I was impressed that a Disney+ MCU show got so dark. Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I kinda want my shows to have some resolution. An episode that repeats futile effort after futile effort that eventually ends in defeat is not really my thing. Plus this episode was extremely inconsistent with the time-travel and multiverse logic the rest of the MCU run with. Due to that, this episode ends up being my least favorite. Right now I'd rank them as: 1. EP3 2. EP5 3. EP2 4. EP1 5. EP4 This latest one with the zombies was pretty cool though somewhat shallow.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 8, 2021 18:20:44 GMT
That Doc Strange episode was a bit of a surprise. Probably my least favorite only because it was so repetitive, but I was impressed that a Disney+ MCU show got so dark. Maybe I'm a bit old-fashioned, but I kinda want my shows to have some resolution. An episode that repeats futile effort after futile effort that eventually ends in defeat is not really my thing. Plus this episode was extremely inconsistent with the time-travel and multiverse logic the rest of the MCU run with. Due to that, this episode ends up being my least favorite. Right now I'd rank them as: 1. EP3 2. EP5 3. EP2 4. EP1 5. EP4 This latest one with the zombies was pretty cool though somewhat shallow. Yeah I wish they'd make up their mind on how time travel works. I don't know how much anything in this show matters in the big picture, otherwise I'd be more troubled by that Doc Strange episode. Haven't seen the zombies episode yet, otherwise I agree with your rankings.
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Post by Power Ranger on Sept 13, 2021 18:13:01 GMT
I’m trying with these but does it is it just me or do these feel like they’re kind of cheap? Maybe they spent too much on the voice cast. Why is it these don’t have anything on the DC animated films? These guys have many subscribers and are still at the helm of a juggernaut. Why don’t they produce real quality?
Also I think that the preoccupation with the MCU drags this down. This was an opportunity to showcase an extended Marvel universe. I don’t think audiences care about the casting of the MCU cast or any more MCU canon. Marvel is bigger than the MCU.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2021 1:56:45 GMT
Never seen it.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 14, 2021 16:35:59 GMT
I’m trying with these but does it is it just me or do these feel like they’re kind of cheap? Maybe they spent too much on the voice cast. Why is it these don’t have anything on the DC animated films? These guys have many subscribers and are still at the helm of a juggernaut. Why don’t they produce real quality? Also I think that the preoccupation with the MCU drags this down. This was an opportunity to showcase an extended Marvel universe. I don’t think audiences care about the casting of the MCU cast or any more MCU canon. Marvel is bigger than the MCU. Marvel must focus more on their live action stuff while DC focuses on cartoons. Would explain why DC live action films are absolutely terrible. Also, aren't DC animated movies full length features compared to half hour episodes of What If? You better be able to do more with that amount of time.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 14, 2021 19:26:37 GMT
I’m trying with these but does it is it just me or do these feel like they’re kind of cheap? Maybe they spent too much on the voice cast. Why is it these don’t have anything on the DC animated films? These guys have many subscribers and are still at the helm of a juggernaut. Why don’t they produce real quality? Also I think that the preoccupation with the MCU drags this down. This was an opportunity to showcase an extended Marvel universe. I don’t think audiences care about the casting of the MCU cast or any more MCU canon. Marvel is bigger than the MCU. The animation and the color/shading in these What IF shows are top notch. I might even say they're the best animation I've seen, especially for the action scenes. But the one big con I can see are the facial expressions. They feel weirdly wooden, like they'd belong in a Pinocchio show. That's what makes it feel cheap. The rest of the animation is great.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 15, 2021 12:47:25 GMT
The zombie episode was entertaining, but didn't make any sense. It tried harder to be Shaun of the Dead than to feel like an MCU product, which is an odd choice. None of the characters behaved in a fashion we've come to understand from their live action counterparts. A bunch of awkward one liners as they kill each other off one by one without a care in the world. Bucky kills zombie Steve and says, "Guess this is the end of the line." Sharon kills Happy and says, "Blam," or whatever. Sam gets killed right in front of Bucky and he says, "I should feel bad...but I don't." What the hell is going on here? Scott watches his friend get killed by Wanda and makes a joke about her being a man eater. I chuckled at a lot of it, don't get me wrong. I didn't hate the episode or anything. Just thought it was an odd angle to take here. They showed they weren't afraid to get dark with the previous episode, so it's surprising they tried so hard to take the edge off the deaths with jokes and nonchalance by the characters.
Overall I'm still enjoying the show, as much as you can considering there aren't really any stakes involved. I'm curious as to whether season 2 will continue any of these stories. That could be fun, especially if it gives us a greater opportunity to invest in these alternate versions of the characters.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 16, 2021 16:03:44 GMT
And another week, another disappointment. Not that the Killmonger episode was bad exactly, actually had good potential, but I'm starting to get tired of the whole "let's end this episode without a resolution" trend these What If shows are doing.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Sept 17, 2021 15:55:31 GMT
And another week, another disappointment. Not that the Killmonger episode was bad exactly, actually had good potential, but I'm starting to get tired of the whole "let's end this episode without a resolution" trend these What If shows are doing. I think they're setting up season 2. Also, What If comics were always dark, with bittersweet endings at best. I think this show is trying to take a darker tone and give these stories a Twilight Zone kind of feel to them. End with that "Oh shit," moment. I think this may have been the most interesting episode so far, if not the best. It took familiar characters and story beats, as is the formula, but it really put effort into a cohesive story. The characters had nuanced motives and interactions which made the story more compelling (also more depressing) than the actual MCU. As compared to the Captain Carter episode which was just a rehash of Cap's story with a gender bending twist and a bunch of Easter Eggs. I felt like somebody hashed out the details of the story on this episode, as opposed to the others which felt a little generic, like people stopped the thought process at the title. "What if Starlord was T'Challa. What if Peggy Carter took the serum. What if zombies." Those episodes play out exactly like you'd expect them to, this one actually thought about the answers to the questions the scenario posed. As far as the ending goes, if they do a continuation next season, it would be fascinating to see Killmonger make a turn for good. Defeat an invading Loki army or something, so those in the know would have to weigh the bad and the good and decide if the character can be redeemed. "What if a broken man became whole after betraying his kin and kingdom. Does he deserve the crown?"
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Post by Power Ranger on Sept 18, 2021 7:47:49 GMT
What if the world lost its mightiest heroes was pretty good. I’ll give the others a chance.
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Post by Skaathar on Sept 18, 2021 22:27:08 GMT
What if the world lost its mightiest heroes was pretty good. I’ll give the others a chance. The was my favorite one, and in my opinion the only truly worth the time. The Killmonger episode comes in 2nd place.
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Post by Power Ranger on Sept 19, 2021 22:43:36 GMT
What if the world lost its mightiest heroes was pretty good. I’ll give the others a chance. The was my favorite one, and in my opinion the only truly worth the time. The Killmonger episode comes in 2nd place. I saw the Zombie one and I really enjoyed it. Those two lines Bucky said, they were to zombie version of his friends, so they were already dead, and they were trying to kill him at the time so it’s not so out of character. As to your issue with them being open-ended, well they are what-ifs. They are only pondering alternate realities. They can’t all end nicely. |
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