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Post by Dirty Santa PaulsLaugh on Oct 2, 2021 9:00:41 GMT
rachelcarson1953 - Along with mikef6 , I want to offer my thanks for your observances, examinations, amplifications and personal experiences. They were of much interest. Although I was being a bit flip in my last reply to him, there was sincerity behind it when I said my only interest was literacy. It dismays me to witness the gradual disintegration of the English language, in spite of its many puzzling inconsistencies and arbitrary dos and don'ts (anyone learning it as a second one has both my pity and admiration). It grates on my nerves when, for example, broadcast and print journalists, commentators, authors and the like who should know better utter phrases like, "There's dozens of reasons for..." or "There's millions of people who..."
There is reasons? There is people? Aaack! And I'm equally discouraged to see perfectly good terminology, conveying specific meaning, become diluted through mis- or over-use. I don't mean to harp too much on politics, but it's in that arena that the damage to "gaslight[ing]" has been done. As you rightly observed, "A lot of people still believe the Big Lie, and other Trump-originated crap. They made his lies their reality." In light of your personal experiences with a toxic relationship and Psychology Today's description of gaslighting as "a severe form of mind-control and psychological abuse," the effect of Trumpist snake-oil is just the opposite of "los[ing] [one's] sense of perception, identity, and self-worth." Those buying into it instead feel it not only gives them those senses of perception, identity and self-worth, it empowers them, conferring senses of strength and action rather than passive weakness. They feel they are the only true patriots, granted license to everything from harassing mask-wearers, to disrupting school board meetings to beating on police and smashing their way into and invading the U.S. Capitol Building. Don't like the way things are? Make enough noise, throw big enough tantrums and commit enough violence to get your way by force. There's no doubt that the messaging inspiring such behavior is a form of mind-control, and it may ultimately prove abusive to those willingly submitting to it...if not in a way they expect. But there are already two very appropriate words identifying that messaging: lying and demagoguery. And all of a sudden, I feel like that guy who made those wailing YouTube videos about poor, put-upon Britney Spears a few years back: "Leeeeeeeave 'gaslighting' allllooooooone!" I've been a professional proofreader, off and on, for most of my adult life, so bad grammar and misspelling make my teeth clench too! As for the political side of this, I am still reeling in disbelief at what America has come to. The lying demagogue who is behind all this needs to go to jail. Some decades back, he would have been shot as a traitor. What is the informal contraction for "there are?" "There're millions of people...." Probably should not be used in broadcast news, even if in speaking.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Oct 2, 2021 20:36:44 GMT
I've been a professional proofreader, off and on, for most of my adult life, so bad grammar and misspelling make my teeth clench too! As for the political side of this, I am still reeling in disbelief at what America has come to. The lying demagogue who is behind all this needs to go to jail. Some decades back, he would have been shot as a traitor. What is the informal contraction for "there are?" "There're millions of people...." Probably should not be used in broadcast news, even if in speaking. If I tried to say that, I would most assuredly sound drunk! I try to avoid contractions, simply because people talk so sloppily these days, it's hard to figure out what's being said anymore.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Oct 2, 2021 21:37:52 GMT
What is the informal contraction for "there are?" "There're millions of people...." Probably should not be used in broadcast news, even if in speaking. If I tried to say that, I would most assuredly sound drunk! I try to avoid contractions, simply because people talk so sloppily these days, it's hard to figure out what's being said anymore. I considered the question, but thought it best to wait for you to weigh in first (it was directed to you, after all). It's my understanding that "there're" is perfectly correct, just as "they're" and "we're" are. And it's my guess that, whether used in broadcast or private conversation, most listeners would hear it as "there are" anyway. But either way, it's no more work to say "there are" than to say 'there're (same number of syllables), and is, to my ear, preferable to "there's," which is incorrect no matter how you slice it and despite its ubiquity. I had the crazy thought about twenty-five years ago that written online communication would lead to broadening and refinement of language skills that had fallen by the wayside. LOL! No wut I mean?
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Oct 3, 2021 14:09:38 GMT
If I tried to say that, I would most assuredly sound drunk! I try to avoid contractions, simply because people talk so sloppily these days, it's hard to figure out what's being said anymore. I considered the question, but thought it best to wait for you to weigh in first (it was directed to you, after all). It's my understanding that "there're" is perfectly correct, just as "they're" and "we're" are. And it's my guess that, whether used in broadcast or private conversation, most listeners would hear it as "there are" anyway. But either way, it's no more work to say "there are" than to say 'there're (same number of syllables), and is, to my ear, preferable to "there's," which is incorrect no matter how you slice it and despite its ubiquity. I had the crazy thought about twenty-five years ago that written online communication would lead to broadening and refinement of language skills that had fallen by the wayside. LOL! No wut I mean? I had that same crazy thought myself; seeing words correctly spelled with no little red spellcheck underlined words would be a positive reinforcement, and people would read what they wrote and perhaps refine a thought or clarify an idea... 
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Post by mikef6 on Oct 3, 2021 14:23:25 GMT
I considered the question, but thought it best to wait for you to weigh in first (it was directed to you, after all). It's my understanding that "there're" is perfectly correct, just as "they're" and "we're" are. And it's my guess that, whether used in broadcast or private conversation, most listeners would hear it as "there are" anyway. But either way, it's no more work to say "there are" than to say 'there're (same number of syllables), and is, to my ear, preferable to "there's," which is incorrect no matter how you slice it and despite its ubiquity. I had the crazy thought about twenty-five years ago that written online communication would lead to broadening and refinement of language skills that had fallen by the wayside. LOL! No wut I mean? I had that same crazy thought myself; seeing words correctly spelled with no little red spellcheck underlined words would be a positive reinforcement, and people would read what they wrote and perhaps refine a thought or clarify an idea... Not to toot my own horn, bang my own drum, beat my chest, or use excessive metaphors, that is what I do and have always done (even if some of my thoughts still come out seeming muddled).
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Post by langdona on Oct 3, 2021 22:18:08 GMT
I'd particularly like to see "gaslighting" retired from use, at least by those people who don't seem to know what it means. It's been years since I've heard it used to describe anything but garden variety bullshitting. That ain't it. It's derived from a 1939 play - and two subsequent films of the same title - referring to a specific sort of psychological manipulation intended to make its victim doubt their own sanity. How many times have we heard things like, "For four years, the Trump administration gaslighted the nation..." Ha. I put it to anyone: when you heard Trump, or Conway or Huckabee-Sanders or any of the others telling their whoppers, did you doubt your sanity? Or were you doubting theirs? I think gaslighting is a great word. Sure it is misused sometimes but I think the increase in use has brought awareness of this kind of manipulation and how harmful it can be. Especially for women in abusive relationships...being able to spot it can help. Maybe some of the backlash on this word is from people not willing to admit some tactics they themselves use are pretty f'd up. Well nobody really wants to believe they are an abusive person, do they |
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Post by amyghost on Oct 4, 2021 12:23:33 GMT
I don't like the word, nor the attitude behind it. The implication is that any white female who has a problem with a 'person of color' (another term I cannot stand; as George Carlin once noted, it's simply a convoluted way of saying "colored people") is invariably some pampered, silly bitch, probably a racist, definitely not to be taken seriously. Her issue may be a legitimate one, but by applying the Karen moniker, it dismisses and dehumanizes her--and on what? Why, on the basis of skin color and gender of course! Well, when the right wing gets done calling black women in politics Jezebels, then we can retire Karen. And it is used the "pampered, silly bitch, probably a racist" upper middle class women who like making a self-righteous spectacle of herself in public...usually near an cellphone. It's not phrase for the likes of Marjorie Taylor Greene who is a certified cunt. Some true points there, Paul--but it's still engaging in the broad generalizations which are the heartmeat of racism of all stripes. Better to retire the name-calling altogether. Not all upper-middle class women are bitches, silly, or otherwise poor specimens; I know several of them personally who aren't. And not all minority folk are wearing halos. The sooner we can step away from our apparently innate tendency to lump all members of any given group under an umbrella of preconceived prejudices--unflatterng or flattering--the better off we're likely to be.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Oct 4, 2021 17:51:54 GMT
I had that same crazy thought myself; seeing words correctly spelled with no little red spellcheck underlined words would be a positive reinforcement, and people would read what they wrote and perhaps refine a thought or clarify an idea... Not to toot my own horn, bang my own drum, beat my chest, or use excessive metaphors, that is what I do and have always done (even if some of my thoughts still come out seeming muddled). Nah, your posts never seem muddled to me! 
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Oct 4, 2021 18:04:01 GMT
I've been a professional proofreader, off and on, for most of my adult life, so bad grammar and misspelling make my teeth clench too! As for the political side of this, I am still reeling in disbelief at what America has come to. The lying demagogue who is behind all this needs to go to jail. Some decades back, he would have been shot as a traitor. What is the informal contraction for "there are?" "There're millions of people...." Probably should not be used in broadcast news, even if in speaking. Has the word "impact" been banned permanently yet, instead of using either "affect" or effect"? Impact can be used legitimately when speaking of an impacted wisdom tooth, or a horse's impacted colon or when one vehicle hits another, but the general media use of "So how did that impact you?" instead of "how did that affect you, how did you feel about that" just makes my blood pressure go up. Lazy use of the English language; our media should set a standard for vocabulary.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Oct 4, 2021 19:26:48 GMT
I'd particularly like to see "gaslighting" retired from use, at least by those people who don't seem to know what it means. It's been years since I've heard it used to describe anything but garden variety bullshitting. That ain't it. It's derived from a 1939 play - and two subsequent films of the same title - referring to a specific sort of psychological manipulation intended to make its victim doubt their own sanity. How many times have we heard things like, "For four years, the Trump administration gaslighted the nation..." Ha. I put it to anyone: when you heard Trump, or Conway or Huckabee-Sanders or any of the others telling their whoppers, did you doubt your sanity? Or were you doubting theirs? I think gaslighting is a great word. Sure it is misused sometimes but I think the increase in use has brought awareness of this kind of manipulation and how harmful it can be. Especially for women in abusive relationships...being able to spot it can help. Maybe some of the backlash on this word is from people not willing to admit some tactics they themselves use are pretty f'd up. Well nobody really wants to believe they are an abusive person, do they I agree that "gaslighting" is a great word, and I hate seeing great words diminished and diluted into meaninglessness.
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Post by uncreative on Oct 4, 2021 23:40:13 GMT
I'd like to add semprini to the list of forbidden words.
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