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Post by ReyKahuka on May 19, 2017 16:31:25 GMT
It's funny because I'm fine with their IP spread out across various studios. The X-Men were probably my least favorite book, I was always into the Avengers. Each corner of the MCU had its own distinctive feel, that's what made the MU great. That's also what makes the difference in tone between the MCU and the Netflix shows great. It gives the audience choices. It's worked out really well for me as an Avengers fan because I never liked the idea of Spider-Man as an Avenger. However, they've brought him into the fold and made it work splendidly on screen. But the X-Men were always too dark and broody for my taste. The Avengers are a team of elite warriors who choose to fight evil. The X-Men are a bunch of crybabies who whine about not being accepted, segregate themselves from society and fight mostly amongst themselves. Seriously, I think most X-Men villains are evil twins/clones, alternate future selves or former teammates. The world would be a better place if they'd ante up and stop whining. But I digress... Anyway, nobody appreciates a shared universe more than I do, believe me. But not every character or group meshes well with others, and the entirety of Marvel Comics should never have the same tone-- which is exactly what would happen if they were to come together under one studio. The contrasts you describe is what makes the Marvel Universe uniquely great comic book literature. I don't believe that segregating the IP according studios based on "tone" and "geography" acknowledges that highly distinguishing feature. The Marvel Universe is a study in contrasts - just like the real universe. Sure, but the MCU's tone has been consistent from day one. My point was the X-Men are supposed to have a different tone than the Avengers, even if it isn't the one I prefer. Getting them all under one roof would mean making the X-Men something they aren't for the sake of a corporate mission statement. Until the MCU starts taking more chances with their storytelling, I wouldn't want to see the X-Men shoehorned into the films anyway. They wouldn't fit. Just like I wouldn't want Iron Man showing up in Daredevil season 3. |
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 16:44:34 GMT
The contrasts you describe is what makes the Marvel Universe uniquely great comic book literature. I don't believe that segregating the IP according studios based on "tone" and "geography" acknowledges that highly distinguishing feature. The Marvel Universe is a study in contrasts - just like the real universe. Sure, but the MCU's tone has been consistent from day one. My point was the X-Men are supposed to have a different tone than the Avengers, even if it isn't the one I prefer. Getting them all under one roof would mean making the X-Men something they aren't for the sake of a corporate mission statement. Until the MCU starts taking more chances with their storytelling, I wouldn't want to see the X-Men shoehorned into the films anyway. They wouldn't fit. Just like I wouldn't want Iron Man showing up in Daredevil season 3. Not necessarily. The MCU can and will evolve to accommodate the "Almighty Tone." The history/legacy of these A-level characters would demand it. The only reason you're seeing broad comedic turns in the MCU now is because they started out with B, C and D level characters that did not have a lot of thematic weight behind them. The MCU needs these characters to evolve and diversify. It's already happening. I don't expect Black Panther to be a slapstick comedy. Do you? We've had decades of films from these satellite studios. Let's just fill out the blu-ray collection and call it a day. These studios are not adding anything new to the dialogue. The characters are atrophying under their stewardship. Marvel Studios, the place where these characters were born, deserves a shot at this. My apologies if I seem intractable but, I will not be convinced of otherwise (until I see it fail horribly with my own eyes). SaveSave |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 19, 2017 16:48:02 GMT
Sure, but the MCU's tone has been consistent from day one. My point was the X-Men are supposed to have a different tone than the Avengers, even if it isn't the one I prefer. Getting them all under one roof would mean making the X-Men something they aren't for the sake of a corporate mission statement. Until the MCU starts taking more chances with their storytelling, I wouldn't want to see the X-Men shoehorned into the films anyway. They wouldn't fit. Just like I wouldn't want Iron Man showing up in Daredevil season 3. Not necessarily. The MCU can and will evolve to accommodate the "Almighty Tone." The history/legacy of these A-level characters would demand it. The only reason you're seeing broad comedic turns in the MCU now is because they started out with B, C and D level characters that did not have a lot thematic weight behind them. The MCU needs these characters to evolve and diversify. It's already happening. I don't expect Black Panther to be a slapstick comedy. Do you? We've had decades of films from these satellite studios. Let's just fill out the blu-ray collection and call it day. These studios are not adding anything new to the dialogue. The characters are atrophying under their stewardship. Marvel Studios, the place where these characters were born, deserves a shot at this. My apologies if I seem intractable but, I will not be convinced of otherwise (until I see it fail horribly with my own eyes). I'll just add that Winter Soldier wasn't a comedy either, and neither were Thor, Hulk, or First Avenger.
I honestly think the comedy has been perfect in the MCU, and higher for appropriate films like Guardians and Ant Man which are funny comics.
Do people who don't like the comedy, never joke in their day to day life? I do, and people I know do, so the comedy in the MCU seems like perfectly natural conversation to me.
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Post by ReyKahuka on May 19, 2017 16:57:51 GMT
Sure, but the MCU's tone has been consistent from day one. My point was the X-Men are supposed to have a different tone than the Avengers, even if it isn't the one I prefer. Getting them all under one roof would mean making the X-Men something they aren't for the sake of a corporate mission statement. Until the MCU starts taking more chances with their storytelling, I wouldn't want to see the X-Men shoehorned into the films anyway. They wouldn't fit. Just like I wouldn't want Iron Man showing up in Daredevil season 3. Not necessarily. The MCU can and will evolve to accommodate the "Almighty Tone." The history/legacy of these A-level characters would demand it. The only reason you're seeing broad comedic turns in the MCU now is because they started out with B, C and D level characters that did not have a lot thematic weight behind them. The MCU needs these characters to evolve and diversify. It's already happening. I don't expect Black Panther to be a slapstick comedy. Do you? We've had decades of films from these satellite studios. Let's just fill out the blu-ray collection and call it day. These studios are not adding anything new to the dialogue. The characters are atrophying under their stewardship. Marvel Studios, the place where these characters were born, deserves a shot at this. My apologies if I seem intractable but, I will not be convinced of otherwise (until I see it fail horribly with my own eyes). Great point about Black Panther, it definitely has all the appearances of going in a bold new direction. Hopefully the crowd shows out for it (I'd buy my ticket now if I could) and shows Marvel how hungry they are for something a little different. I can't say I disagree with your view of the other studios overall, again I just appreciate variety. The only X-Men movies I've enjoyed are First Class, Logan and Deadpool (which is just raunch comedy in spandex, and it's incredible). I'd kill for a Marvel Studios adaptation of Longshot, for example. Literally anything is possible with that character. Oh and you don't have to apologize for having an opinion. The point of these conversations is to share ideas, I'm not trying to convert anyone here. |
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Post by ReyKahuka on May 19, 2017 17:06:48 GMT
Not necessarily. The MCU can and will evolve to accommodate the "Almighty Tone." The history/legacy of these A-level characters would demand it. The only reason you're seeing broad comedic turns in the MCU now is because they started out with B, C and D level characters that did not have a lot thematic weight behind them. The MCU needs these characters to evolve and diversify. It's already happening. I don't expect Black Panther to be a slapstick comedy. Do you? We've had decades of films from these satellite studios. Let's just fill out the blu-ray collection and call it day. These studios are not adding anything new to the dialogue. The characters are atrophying under their stewardship. Marvel Studios, the place where these characters were born, deserves a shot at this. My apologies if I seem intractable but, I will not be convinced of otherwise (until I see it fail horribly with my own eyes). I'll just add that Winter Soldier wasn't a comedy either, and neither were Thor, Hulk, or First Avenger.
I honestly think the comedy has been perfect in the MCU, and higher for appropriate films like Guardians and Ant Man which are funny comics.
Do people who don't like the comedy, never joke in their day to day life? I do, and people I know do, so the comedy in the MCU seems like perfectly natural conversation to me.
Winter Soldier is my favorite MCU film to date, and probably my favorite CBM overall. It definitely has a more serious tone than any other MCU offering, yet it still feels comfortable embracing its comic book-ness, which I consider to be one of its strengths as a film. I have no problem with comedy, and Ant-Man and particularly Guardians were fantastic action comedies-- the first Guardians is nearly a flawless film in my estimation. My original point was not every film needs to have the same tone. Infinity War will be darker for sure, so it's another step in a new direction for the MCU. The tone isn't the issue, it's redundancy. You wouldn't want X-Men films that feel exactly like Avengers films. At least, I wouldn't. Show me something new. As I said earlier, I prefer the Avengers books to the X-Men books, but I always respected the difference. Not every story should feel the same when you read it. But again, it looks like Marvel is about to branch out in ways they haven't up to this point, so these upcoming films are a good barometer for what they could do with the X-Men titles. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 19, 2017 17:13:15 GMT
Winter Soldier is my favorite MCU film to date, and probably my favorite CBM overall. It definitely has a more serious tone than any other MCU offering, yet it still feels comfortable embracing its comic book-ness, which I consider to be one of its strengths as a film. I have no problem with comedy, and Ant-Man and particularly Guardians were fantastic action comedies-- the first Guardians is nearly a flawless film in my estimation. My original point was not every film needs to have the same tone. Infinity War will be darker for sure, so it's another step in a new direction for the MCU. The tone isn't the issue, it's redundancy. You wouldn't want X-Men films that feel exactly like Avengers films. At least, I wouldn't. Show me something new. As I said earlier, I prefer the Avengers books to the X-Men books, but I always respected the difference. Not every story should feel the same when you read it. But again, it looks like Marvel is about to branch out in ways they haven't up to this point, so these upcoming films are a good barometer for what they could do with the X-Men titles. IDK, I haven't found anything about it redundant yet.
The strength of the MCU is that each film constantly shifts gears, from big to large scale, from space epic to personal drama, to spy thriller. Did Doctor Strange, Civil War, and Guardians feel the same to you? It didn't feel the same to me.
I just honestly don't know what you mean by redundant. I don't see anything close to that.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 19, 2017 17:28:33 GMT
The X-Films are way more redundant and repetitive than the MCU films are.
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Post by ReyKahuka on May 19, 2017 17:43:41 GMT
Winter Soldier is my favorite MCU film to date, and probably my favorite CBM overall. It definitely has a more serious tone than any other MCU offering, yet it still feels comfortable embracing its comic book-ness, which I consider to be one of its strengths as a film. I have no problem with comedy, and Ant-Man and particularly Guardians were fantastic action comedies-- the first Guardians is nearly a flawless film in my estimation. My original point was not every film needs to have the same tone. Infinity War will be darker for sure, so it's another step in a new direction for the MCU. The tone isn't the issue, it's redundancy. You wouldn't want X-Men films that feel exactly like Avengers films. At least, I wouldn't. Show me something new. As I said earlier, I prefer the Avengers books to the X-Men books, but I always respected the difference. Not every story should feel the same when you read it. But again, it looks like Marvel is about to branch out in ways they haven't up to this point, so these upcoming films are a good barometer for what they could do with the X-Men titles. IDK, I haven't found anything about it redundant yet.
The strength of the MCU is that each film constantly shifts gears, from big to large scale, from space epic to personal drama, to spy thriller. Did Doctor Strange, Civil War, and Guardians feel the same to you? It didn't feel the same to me.
I just honestly don't know what you mean by redundant. I don't see anything close to that.
I said it would become redundant if the X-Men films were identical in tone to the Avengers films. But since you mention it, the tone of Doctor Strange was very similar to Thor 2 or any Iron Man film, absolutely. It separated itself from the pack with its visuals, not the story. And that's an observation, not a gripe. I didn't have high expectations for Doctor Strange, anyway. |
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Post by ReyKahuka on May 19, 2017 17:45:27 GMT
The X-Films are way more redundant and repetitive than the MCU films are. Not only that, the X films by and large aren't fun to watch. Most of them are garbage and the timeline is a complete mess. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 19, 2017 17:49:00 GMT
I said it would become redundant if the X-Men films were identical in tone to the Avengers films. But since you mention it, the tone of Doctor Strange was very similar to Thor 2 or any Iron Man film, absolutely. It separated itself from the pack with its visuals, not the story. And that's an observation, not a gripe. I didn't have high expectations for Doctor Strange, anyway. I just don't understand what qualifies as not redundant for you. Why would you think the tone wouldn't match between films? Should they not feel like they take place in the same world to you? Is that somehow preferable? I don't get it. I very much enjoy that the tone matches, so I don't understand your point. |
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Post by ReyKahuka on May 19, 2017 17:59:30 GMT
I said it would become redundant if the X-Men films were identical in tone to the Avengers films. But since you mention it, the tone of Doctor Strange was very similar to Thor 2 or any Iron Man film, absolutely. It separated itself from the pack with its visuals, not the story. And that's an observation, not a gripe. I didn't have high expectations for Doctor Strange, anyway. I just don't understand what qualifies as not redundant for you. Why would you think the tone wouldn't match between films? Should they not feel like they take place in the same world to you? Is that somehow preferable? I don't get it. I very much enjoy that the tone matches, so I don't understand your point. Do X-Men comics have the same tone as Avengers comics? Do you watch the Netflix shows? Does Daredevil have the same tone as the Avengers films? Both great, both in the same shared universe, different tones. That's what I'd want to see with X-Men movies. Take what makes the characters compelling and focus on that instead of working them into a formula. As Atomica pointed out, it looks like they're going in that direction for Black Panther; no reason they couldn't do it with the X-Men. |
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 18:29:00 GMT
Not necessarily. The MCU can and will evolve to accommodate the "Almighty Tone." The history/legacy of these A-level characters would demand it. The only reason you're seeing broad comedic turns in the MCU now is because they started out with B, C and D level characters that did not have a lot thematic weight behind them. The MCU needs these characters to evolve and diversify. It's already happening. I don't expect Black Panther to be a slapstick comedy. Do you? We've had decades of films from these satellite studios. Let's just fill out the blu-ray collection and call it day. These studios are not adding anything new to the dialogue. The characters are atrophying under their stewardship. Marvel Studios, the place where these characters were born, deserves a shot at this. My apologies if I seem intractable but, I will not be convinced of otherwise (until I see it fail horribly with my own eyes). Great point about Black Panther, it definitely has all the appearances of going in a bold new direction. Hopefully the crowd shows out for it (I'd buy my ticket now if I could) and shows Marvel how hungry they are for something a little different. I can't say I disagree with your view of the other studios overall, again I just appreciate variety. The only X-Men movies I've enjoyed are First Class, Logan and Deadpool (which is just raunch comedy in spandex, and it's incredible). I'd kill for a Marvel Studios adaptation of Longshot, for example. Literally anything is possible with that character. Oh and you don't have to apologize for having an opinion. The point of these conversations is to share ideas, I'm not trying to convert anyone here. Ladies and gentle men, this is how debate and idea exchange should be done, thank you, sir. SaveSave |
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Post by judgejosephdredd on May 19, 2017 20:12:15 GMT
Dude, Fox didn't even want to support Deadpool originally, they didn't think it would even have half of the success it would later have. They only greenlit it because there was serious demand after the test footage leaked online and because Reynolds and Miller could get it done cheaper. They had all their chips on X-Men: Apocalypse being their biggest tentpole of the year but Deadpool garnered far bigger critical and financial success, it practically rewrote the structure of the X-Men franchise. It wasn't long after Deadpool's success that Logan was announced.
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 19, 2017 20:29:02 GMT
Dude, Fox didn't even want to support Deadpool originally, they didn't think it would even have half of the success it would later have. They only greenlit it because there was serious demand after the test footage leaked online and because Reynolds and Miller could get it done cheaper. They had all their chips on X-Men: Apocalypse being their biggest tentpole of the year but Deadpool garnered far bigger critical and financial success, it practically rewrote the structure of the X-Men franchise. It wasn't long after Deadpool's success that Logan was announced. KA-CHING! SaveSave |
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Post by charzhino on May 19, 2017 20:29:38 GMT
If that happens it will be the death of original comic books movies.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 0:13:29 GMT
If that happens it will be the death of original comic books movies. In what way are films that are based on preexisting IPs "original"? Are you just completely mentally deficient or what? |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 20, 2017 0:23:02 GMT
Do X-Men comics have the same tone as Avengers comics? Do you watch the Netflix shows? Does Daredevil have the same tone as the Avengers films? Both great, both in the same shared universe, different tones. That's what I'd want to see with X-Men movies. Take what makes the characters compelling and focus on that instead of working them into a formula. As Atomica pointed out, it looks like they're going in that direction for Black Panther; no reason they couldn't do it with the X-Men. Ok but Daredevil feels as different from the Avengers as Winter Soldier feels to Guardians, so I'm still not sure what the point here is.
I agree, variety is good, but I don't see anything bad at all with the diversity they've had. It's all been great if you ask me.
Also, sure, bring in the X-Men. A tone very much like X-Men 1 and 2 would fit right into the MCU. Not the current films though.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 1:33:23 GMT
Dude, Fox didn't even want to support Deadpool originally, they didn't think it would even have half of the success it would later have. They only greenlit it because there was serious demand after the test footage leaked online and because Reynolds and Miller could get it done cheaper. They had all their chips on X-Men: Apocalypse being their biggest tentpole of the year but Deadpool garnered far bigger critical and financial success, it practically rewrote the structure of the X-Men franchise. It wasn't long after Deadpool's success that Logan was announced. "leaked" |
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Post by formersamhmd on May 20, 2017 3:13:38 GMT
If that happens it will be the death of original comic books movies. Considering how unoriginal the X-Movies are, I don't think so. |
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Post by Ecstasy on May 20, 2017 3:37:00 GMT
Dude, Fox didn't even want to support Deadpool originally, they didn't think it would even have half of the success it would later have. They only greenlit it because there was serious demand after the test footage leaked online and because Reynolds and Miller could get it done cheaper. They had all their chips on X-Men: Apocalypse being their biggest tentpole of the year but Deadpool garnered far bigger critical and financial success, it practically rewrote the structure of the X-Men franchise. It wasn't long after Deadpool's success that Logan was announced. Logan was announced 2 years before Deadpool's release. The Weapon X in X-Men: Apocalypse was even met to set-up the events in Logan. And the structure of the X-Men franchise hasn't changed much from what they originally planned. Since they are still going through with Dark Phoenix film which had planned since Days of Future Past. |
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