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Post by lune7000 on Oct 1, 2021 23:47:07 GMT
Currently I am watching Capricorn One (1977). I have no idea how far I am in it. I am using the movie to learn Spanish with Spanish subtitles running. I wait for a subtitle to appear, and press pause, I try then to figure out the English version and play the film to see how close I came. At the rate I am going, it will take about 4 hours to finish this film- but I am getter better and better. The guy who plays the slimy mission control director (Hal Holbrook?) is wonderful and the casting is perfect to my eyes. I love films that go in a completely new direction I haven't seen before.
But now some questions:
1. Is faking a space mission really possible? There are whole groups devoted to this issue but I can't se the govt. pulling off such a trick with so many people involved. Still, a clever enough plan could work. I was a school age child watching the moon landing live when it happened. This is all so close to me (it was reallllllly boring to me then- just beeping sounds and a running camera of a lunar surface).
2. What are some other movies that revolve around fake events? (not forgeries of items, but live events)
3. Does anyone else use movies to learn languages?
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Post by marshamae on Oct 2, 2021 0:34:45 GMT
I use films to test the language I think I have acquired. To learn I read magazines, things like people or movie mags.
Fake events - the fair in State Fair?
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Post by Rufus-T on Oct 2, 2021 0:40:45 GMT
FWIW, Capricorn One was a very good film. The cast was perfect, and we still have the respectable O.J. Massive conspiracy such as that is unlikely to happen, but it doesn't mean it is not possible. Even less likely in the information and digital age. Makes you wonder, how much of the past history was made up or exaggerated or twisted.
As for fake event movies, the one that comes to mind is on fake death, such as Gone Girl. Probably there are others.
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Post by lune7000 on Oct 2, 2021 2:35:16 GMT
finally finished- Spanish is getting better although I don't think the translations are always literal.
One that I have decided- a conspiracy can only work if a very few people know about it (which is why some have to have "accidents" quickly)
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Post by london777 on Oct 2, 2021 4:38:16 GMT
In Wag the Dog (1997) dir: Barry Levinson, the US President's spin-doctor, played by Robert De Niro, hires a celebrated Hollywood director, played by Dustin Hoffman, to create television coverage of a fake war with Albania, to foment patriotic support for the President and cover up an imminently breaking under-age sex scandal, just before the latter's bid for re-election. Coincidentally, the film appeared just before the Lewinsky scandal and US bombing of Iraq, which made it seem more prescient than it was. Well worth a watch. Some clever ideas but it wobbles between being an ominous satire and a good-natured farce. It pays homage to the ingenuity of Hollywood, and director Stanley Mots (Hoffman) in creating an alternative reality. Mots in an arrogant, god-like figure reminiscent of Eli Cross (Peter O'Toole) in The Stunt Man (1980) but his vanity will be the death of him. Probably Capricorn One was an influence, together with real-life events such as the Falklands War.
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Post by lune7000 on Oct 2, 2021 17:38:10 GMT
In Wag the Dog (1997) dir: Barry Levinson, the US President's spin-doctor, played by Robert De Niro, hires a celebrated Hollywood director, played by Dustin Hoffman, to create television coverage of a fake war with Albania, to foment patriotic support for the President and cover up an imminently breaking under-age sex scandal, just before the latter's bid for re-election. Coincidentally, the film appeared just before the Lewinsky scandal and US bombing of Iraq, which made it seem more prescient than it was. Well worth a watch. Some clever ideas but it wobbles between being an ominous satire and a good-natured farce. It pays homage to the ingenuity of Hollywood, and director Stanley Mots (Hoffman) in creating an alternative reality. Mots in an arrogant, god-like figure reminiscent of Eli Cross (Peter O'Toole) in The Stunt Man (1980) but his vanity will be the death of him. Probably Capricorn One was an influence, together with real-life events such as the Falklands War. I forgot about that one- a very provoking movie. Although not a Fake Event movie, I also liked The Circle (2017) about social media company power. I miss intelligent movies- they are so rare.
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Post by mikef6 on Oct 2, 2021 17:43:57 GMT
Not a movie but television, the classic series “Mission:Impossible” (1966-1973) staged fake events every week. They would trick the evildoers with fake killings, ghostly reappearances, earthquakes, and a nuclear holocaust. They convinced neo-Nazis that Hitler was still alive. They even convince an elderly gangster that he has gone back in time and is young again. It was an amazing show. As I said on the Classic TV board, I don’t care that the producers of the modern franchise used the title, the movies are just NOT Mission:Impossible. They could have named it anything else and not made a single change in their movies.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Oct 2, 2021 18:19:18 GMT
Not a movie but television, the classic series “Mission:Impossible” (1966-1973) staged fake events every week. They would trick the evildoers with fake killings, ghostly reappearances, earthquakes, and a nuclear holocaust. They convinced neo-Nazis that Hitler was still alive. They even convince an elderly gangster that he has gone back in time and is young again. It was an amazing show. As I said on the Classic TV board, I don’t care that the producers of the modern franchise used the title, the movies are just NOT Mission:Impossible. They could have named it anything else and not made a single change in their movies. The memories of Mission: Impossible that you've revived have reminded me about 1964's 36 Hours, in which American officer James Garner is drugged and kidnapped by German intelligence in the days leading to the D-Day invasion and, waking in what he's told is an Allied Veterans' Hospital, is convinced by "psychiatrist" Rod Taylor that it's years after the war and he's been suffering from recurring bouts of amnesia. The purpose of the elaborate ruse is "reconstructing" his memory by retracing what he last remembers, so that Taylor can extract details Garner knows about the upcoming invasion. Absent the necessary briskness of a one-hour-format TV episode, it otherwise anticipates the vibe of the series, although in this case, the "IM Force" are the bad guys, and yields a more in-depth examination of the psychological effects of the hoax upon its victim.
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Post by mikef6 on Oct 2, 2021 18:31:23 GMT
Not a movie but television, the classic series “Mission:Impossible” (1966-1973) staged fake events every week. They would trick the evildoers with fake killings, ghostly reappearances, earthquakes, and a nuclear holocaust. They convinced neo-Nazis that Hitler was still alive. They even convince an elderly gangster that he has gone back in time and is young again. It was an amazing show. As I said on the Classic TV board, I don’t care that the producers of the modern franchise used the title, the movies are just NOT Mission:Impossible. They could have named it anything else and not made a single change in their movies. The memories of Mission: Impossible that you've revived have reminded me about 1964's 36 Hours, in which American officer James Garner is drugged and kidnapped by German intelligence in the days leading to the D-Day invasion and, waking in what he's told is an Allied Veterans' Hospital, is convinced by "psychiatrist" Rod Taylor that it's years after the war and he's been suffering from recurring bouts of amnesia. The purpose of the elaborate ruse is "reconstructing" his memory by retracing what he last remembers, so that Taylor can extract details Garner knows about the upcoming invasion. Absent the necessary briskness of a one-hour-format TV episode, it otherwise anticipates the vibe of the series, although in this case, the "IM Force" are the bad guys, and yields a more in-depth examination of the psychological effects of the hoax upon its victim. YES! Should have come up with this myself as I have seen it within this year. Actually, the "fake news" part IS about an hour long before the movie goes into a lengthy escape/chase sequence which I was starting to get a bit tired of by the end. Overall, a pretty good flick and an important hit for James Garner who was trying to beat the odds of transitioning from the little screen to the big one.
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Post by mattgarth on Oct 2, 2021 18:37:15 GMT
36 HOURS is 2/3rds of a terrific movie, but the last 1/3 just trickles away.
Its director (George Seaton) had a similar problem before that with another wartime spy film -- THE COUNTERFEIT TRAITOR with William Holden ... great for 2/3rds, disappointing for the final 1/3rd.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Oct 2, 2021 18:57:21 GMT
The memories of Mission: Impossible that you've revived have reminded me about 1964's 36 Hours, in which American officer James Garner is drugged and kidnapped by German intelligence in the days leading to the D-Day invasion and, waking in what he's told is an Allied Veterans' Hospital, is convinced by "psychiatrist" Rod Taylor that it's years after the war and he's been suffering from recurring bouts of amnesia. The purpose of the elaborate ruse is "reconstructing" his memory by retracing what he last remembers, so that Taylor can extract details Garner knows about the upcoming invasion. Absent the necessary briskness of a one-hour-format TV episode, it otherwise anticipates the vibe of the series, although in this case, the "IM Force" are the bad guys, and yields a more in-depth examination of the psychological effects of the hoax upon its victim. Actually, the "fake news" part IS about an hour long before the movie goes into a lengthy escape/chase sequence which I was starting to get a bit tired of by the end. Perhaps, then, it feels more significant than it is in actual screen time because our sympathies are intended to lie with the hoaxed rather than the hoaxers.
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Post by lune7000 on Oct 2, 2021 19:46:37 GMT
I want to make a distinction in the movies I am looking for as there is some room for error. I am not looking for impersonation movies such as The Prisoner of Zenda where the person is fake but the event is real. I am looking for fake events such as in The Sting.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Oct 2, 2021 19:49:01 GMT
Two of the most fondly remembered* don't begin as events, but quickly snowball into major ones when their subjects become media sensations: Nothing Sacred - Just after learning she's completely healthy, rather than dying of radium poisoning as she believed, small-town girl Carole Lombard is approached by disgraced, big-city reporter Fredric March, eager to rehabilitate himself by taking her tragic story national. He becomes her unwitting aide when she opportunistically decides to escalate what was originally an innocent mistake into a major charade and public spectacle. Meet John Doe - When disgruntled reporter Barbara Stanwyck prints a fictitious letter from 'John Doe' announcing his public suicide as a protest of social injustice, the story captures the national imagination, and she must produce the non-existent Doe to keep the story alive, recruiting homeless drifter Gary Cooper to play the part, and giving birth to a new political movement. *Unfortunately, neither is "fondly remembered" by me. I've simply never been able to get into either one. But they're both bona fide, well-loved classics. EDIT: lune7000, I was typing while you were last posting, and you may not consider these as befitting your specific criteria.
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Post by marianne48 on Oct 2, 2021 21:01:55 GMT
Director Kurt Gerron made a short documentary film in 1944, Theresienstadt, which purported to show the wonderful conditions at a WWII concentration camp. Incarcerated Jews at the camp enjoyed concerts, sporting events, scrumptious meals, and relatively comfortable and pleasant living conditions at the camp. The film was a hoax, a propaganda film intended to be shown to the International Red Cross in order to prove that conditions at the camps weren't so terrible and that Jews were actually safer there and even enjoyed living in relative safety. Gerron, who had foolishly stayed behind in Europe while many of his contemporaries had fled to the U.S. and elsewhere, was forced to make the film by his Nazi captors and possibly believed that doing so would save his life. Most of the people who appeared in the film, relatively healthy-looking prisoners at the camp forced to act among the fake sets as happy, grateful guests of their captors, would later be murdered, along with Gerron. The film was never shown in public and only fragments of it survive. The story of this film was briefly referenced in the film The Boy in the Striped Pajamas, and there's an excellent PBS documentary on Gerron, Prisoner of Paradise.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Oct 2, 2021 22:05:13 GMT
Giving your first question some consideration:
If you'd asked back when Capricorn One was made, I'd have said not. It would certainly have been technically possible to produce convincing images for mass consumption but, as you suggest, the number of those involved would likely result in the secret getting out.
But we now live in an age when people by the tens of millions can be convinced of anything, no matter how absurd and credulity-straining it may seem on its face to others of us. Even if the inevitable whistleblowers came forth by the dozens to reveal the hoax, they'd be easily discredited as conspiracy theorists for the benefit of those preferring to subscribe to their own "truths" (or "alternative facts," as one formerly prominent public figure put it).
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Post by lune7000 on Oct 2, 2021 23:01:00 GMT
Giving your first question some consideration: If you'd asked back when Capricorn One was made, I'd have said not. It would certainly have been technically possible to produce convincing images for mass consumption but, as you suggest, the number of those involved would likely result in the secret getting out. But we now live in an age when people by the tens of millions can be convinced of anything, no matter how absurd and credulity-straining it may seem on its face to others of us. Even if the inevitable whistleblowers came forth by the dozens to reveal the hoax, they'd be easily discredited as conspiracy theorists for the benefit of those preferring to subscribe to their own "truths" (or "alternative facts," as one formerly prominent public figure put it). yeah, today is real strange. Everything changes when technology can make deepfake videos that look real. But, OTOH, technology can verify something didn't happen- we've become a surveillance state with cameras everywhere to show something never occurred. BTW- Saturdays I spend all day watching college football and movies with multiple screens. Currently I am watching My Name is Nobody- a spaghetti western. The audio sounds funny, like people are talking into microphones in a booth as if it was overdubbed in a studio- the compression of audio is all wrong for outdoor speech. But Henry Fonda is an American actor and wouldn't need to overdub. Do you know why the audio sounds indoors? I'm up all night.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Oct 2, 2021 23:58:08 GMT
Currently I am watching My Name is Nobody- a spaghetti western. The audio sounds funny, like people are talking into microphones in a booth as if it was overdubbed in a studio- the compression of audio is all wrong for outdoor speech. But Henry Fonda is an American actor and wouldn't need to overdub. Do you know why the audio sounds indoors? I'm up all night. I haven't seen that many spaghetti westerns, but have consumed my share of sword-and-sandal "epics" and the like, intended for worldwide distribution, that were shot abroad with ofttimes international casts not speaking the same languages. The most common practice would be to record a "production track" - capturing the dialogue on-set in whatever language(s) - only as a guide for actors (like the original ones as in Fonda's case or hired voice performers) "looping" it on an ADR stage. Although it's equally common practice to replace individual lines or even dialogue for entire scenes in this manner for any given film due to inadequacies in the production track (wind noise, barking dogs, planes overhead, etc.), I suspect that producers of such pictures judged it more efficient and economical to ADR all the dialogue for an entire film - which might also be redone in the appropriate language for each market in which the film is distributed - rather than deal with the cumbersome sound editing challenges of balancing and mixing something like Fonda's production-track dialogue with that of other performers who'd need to be rerecorded by others in English on the ADR stage. I don't know how well I stated any of that. In my efforts to be thorough and accurate, brevity and elegant syntax are often casualties.
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Post by lune7000 on Oct 3, 2021 0:32:19 GMT
Currently I am watching My Name is Nobody- a spaghetti western. The audio sounds funny, like people are talking into microphones in a booth as if it was overdubbed in a studio- the compression of audio is all wrong for outdoor speech. But Henry Fonda is an American actor and wouldn't need to overdub. Do you know why the audio sounds indoors? I'm up all night. I haven't seen that many spaghetti westerns, but have consumed my share of sword-and-sandal "epics" and the like, intended for worldwide distribution, that were shot abroad with ofttimes international casts not speaking the same languages. The most common practice would be to record a "production track" - capturing the dialogue on-set in whatever language(s) - only as a guide for actors (like the original ones as in Fonda's case or hired voice performers) "looping" it on an ADR stage. Although it's equally common practice to replace individual lines or even dialogue for entire scenes in this manner for any given film due to inadequacies in the production track (wind noise, barking dogs, planes overhead, etc.), I suspect that producers of such pictures judged it more efficient and economical to ADR all the dialogue for an entire film - which might also be redone in the appropriate language for each market in which the film is distributed - rather than deal with the cumbersome sound editing challenges of balancing and mixing something like Fonda's production-track dialogue with that of other performers who'd need to be rerecorded by others in English on the ADR stage. I don't know how well I stated any of that. In my efforts to be thorough and accurate, brevity and elegant syntax are often casualties. Makes sense- thanks
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