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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2021 16:49:38 GMT
For example. Can’t you just follow the teachings of Jesus and ignore the Dogmatic man made stuff?
For example. Just read the words of Jesus, follow his teachings (like Buddha) and ignore the rest of the Bible?
Why can’t you just follow the teachings of Buddha, Jesus, and other philosophical figures, and be “Christ-Like” (the term Christian means) without following the man made parts of the Bible.
One could argue that Paul’s letters in the New Testament were just his interpretation of Jesus’ teachings, what would be the difference in reading a Joel Osteen book, or Bishop T.D. Jakes book? Would a Christian today compare a book by a modern pastor or priest to the Bible? No, but in reality… isn’t that what the books of the Bible are?
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Post by alittlebirdie on Oct 3, 2021 18:08:09 GMT
I don't think you have to be religious, or opposed to religion. I've read a fair bit on Buddhism, Jainism, Theosophy, Sufism and so on but don't strictly adhere to any.
Spirituality to me is an umbrella, but ultimately very personal.
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gw
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Post by gw on Oct 4, 2021 0:15:36 GMT
I've found what many if not most call 'spiritual' is just personal religious belief that doesn't neatly fit within the framework of larger religions.
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Post by Admin on Oct 4, 2021 6:28:05 GMT
For example. Can’t you just follow the teachings of Jesus and ignore the Dogmatic man made stuff? For example. Just read the words of Jesus, follow his teachings (like Buddha) and ignore the rest of the Bible? Why can’t you just follow the teachings of Buddha, Jesus, and other philosophical figures, and be “Christ-Like” (the term Christian means) without following the man made parts of the Bible. One could argue that Paul’s letters in the New Testament were just his interpretation of Jesus’ teachings, what would be the difference in reading a Joel Osteen book, or Bishop T.D. Jakes book? Would a Christian today compare a book by a modern pastor or priest to the Bible? No, but in reality… isn’t that what the books of the Bible are? My knee-jerk reaction would be to say you can be spiritual without being religious, but you can't be religious without being spiritual. However, I would also say that religion is a set of communal rules and rituals that must be obeyed in order to gain favor with God. It essentially says that the default is Hell and it's up to you to change it. "Do nothing and you will burn" is not in line with Christianity. You can be "Christ-like" without knowing anything about Jesus or the Bible, but you would be following it nonetheless. Christianity in a nutshell is simply "don't be a dick." So if you're not being a dick, then you are indeed being "Christ-like" regardless of whether or not you realize it. Spirituality is more introspective than religion. You go to church, you do as they do. You go on a spiritual retreat, you do as you do, and that's where you see who you truly are. IMHO
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Oct 4, 2021 8:10:32 GMT
No you don`t have to be religious to be spiritual.
You can be spiritual without being religious, you can also be religious without being spiritual
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Post by mystery on Oct 4, 2021 11:27:47 GMT
Spirituality is more introspective than religion. You go to church, you do as they do. You go on a spiritual retreat, you do as you do, and that's where you see who you truly are. IMHO I suppose that's true, that spirituality is more introspective. Apparently, mindfulness meditation actually makes people *more* self centered, and there's always a risk of egotism and believing you're somehow superior to others. It's one of many pitfalls people fall into on a spiritual path. People tend to wear humility as a mask to show the world, but few actually integrate it into their being. Egotism is the enemy of true spirituality.
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Post by amyghost on Oct 4, 2021 12:36:33 GMT
I've found what many if not most call 'spiritual' is just personal religious belief that doesn't neatly fit within the framework of larger religions. Yeah, essentially it generally comes off as just another facet of the whole god-belief thing that seems to be hardwired into the human mind. It may indeed be possible to be 'spiritual' without this entering into it, but the term itself is so vague as to make it difficult to refute that any manifestation of it doesn't involve investment in a larger framework of organized religious belief in some manner.
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Post by Admin on Oct 4, 2021 21:07:01 GMT
I've found what many if not most call 'spiritual' is just personal religious belief that doesn't neatly fit within the framework of larger religions. Yeah, essentially it generally comes off as just another facet of the whole god-belief thing that seems to be hardwired into the human mind. It may indeed be possible to be 'spiritual' without this entering into it, but the term itself is so vague as to make it difficult to refute that any manifestation of it doesn't involve investment in a larger framework of organized religious belief in some manner. Belief in God can and does exist without organized religion. And if we're hard-wired to believe, wouldn't that make atheism a form of denial?
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Post by lowtacks86 on Oct 4, 2021 22:40:51 GMT
No, I suppose you could always be one of those Hippie New Ager types ("LIKE THE UNIVERSE IS GOD, MAN!")
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Oct 5, 2021 20:32:02 GMT
My knee-jerk reaction would be to say you can be spiritual without being religious, but you can't be religious without being spiritual. However, I would also say that religion is a set of communal rules and rituals that must be obeyed in order to gain favor with God. It essentially says that the default is Hell and it's up to you to change it. "Do nothing and you will burn" is not in line with Christianity. You can be "Christ-like" without knowing anything about Jesus or the Bible, but you would be following it nonetheless. Christianity in a nutshell is simply "don't be a dick." So if you're not being a dick, then you are indeed being "Christ-like" regardless of whether or not you realize it. Spirituality is more introspective than religion. You go to church, you do as they do. You go on a spiritual retreat, you do as you do, and that's where you see who you truly are. IMHO … but you can't be religious without being spiritual. I disagree. I see very little of what I define as “spiritual” in Protestantism. The main function of the Reformation was to purge the Church of any pieties that were not totally focused on earning God’s salvation. So virtually all Marian devotions along, theatrical ritual, along with monastic orders, were destroyed and spirituality became seen as effeminate, something a real man would not want to engage in. There is spirituality, but it is narrowly focused to just one acceptable POV and anemic. I, an agnostic atheist and secular humanist, can be very spiritual... especially after leaving the liquor store. Seriously, define 'spiritual'. Because I pause during a hike to admire a grove of maple trees decked out in autumn colors, is that spiritual? Or does 'spirituality' equate to belief in something supernatural? It's too open to interpretation to really mean anything.
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Post by mystery on Oct 6, 2021 0:13:28 GMT
… but you can't be religious without being spiritual. I disagree. I see very little of what I define as “spiritual” in Protestantism. The main function of the Reformation was to purge the Church of any pieties that were not totally focused on earning God’s salvation. So virtually all Marian devotions along, theatrical ritual, along with monastic orders, were destroyed and spirituality became seen as effeminate, something a real man would not want to engage in. There is spirituality, but it is narrowly focused to just one acceptable POV and anemic. I, an agnostic atheist and secular humanist, can be very spiritual... especially after leaving the liquor store. Seriously, define 'spiritual'. Because I pause during a hike to admire a grove of maple trees decked out in autumn colors, is that spiritual? Or does 'spirituality' equate to belief in something supernatural? It's too open to interpretation to really mean anything. Spirituality is often defined as a sense of connection or oneness with something greater than ourselves. I'm not sure how anyone could live in this world and not have some spiritual experiences. You stand under a sea of stars and feel so tiny and insignificant. Or you feel awe watching the first flowers blooming in spring, or marvel at the beauty of a mesmerizing sunset, painting the sky with a riot of colors. However you want to define that "greater thing" is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's entirely possible for an atheist to be spiritual. Many things boil down to mere semantics, anyway.
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Post by Admin on Oct 6, 2021 0:58:11 GMT
I, an agnostic atheist and secular humanist, can be very spiritual... especially after leaving the liquor store. Seriously, define 'spiritual'. Because I pause during a hike to admire a grove of maple trees decked out in autumn colors, is that spiritual? Or does 'spirituality' equate to belief in something supernatural? It's too open to interpretation to really mean anything. Spirituality is often defined as a sense of connection or oneness with something greater than ourselves. I'm not sure how anyone could live in this world and not have some spiritual experiences. You stand under a sea of stars and feel so tiny and insignificant. Or you feel awe watching the first flowers blooming in spring, or marvel at the beauty of a mesmerizing sunset, painting the sky with a riot of colors. However you want to define that "greater thing" is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's entirely possible for an atheist to be spiritual. Many things boil down to mere semantics, anyway. Atheism is much too ingrained with materialism to leave room for spirituality in any sense.
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Post by mystery on Oct 6, 2021 1:18:00 GMT
Spirituality is often defined as a sense of connection or oneness with something greater than ourselves. I'm not sure how anyone could live in this world and not have some spiritual experiences. You stand under a sea of stars and feel so tiny and insignificant. Or you feel awe watching the first flowers blooming in spring, or marvel at the beauty of a mesmerizing sunset, painting the sky with a riot of colors. However you want to define that "greater thing" is up to the individual. Personally, I think it's entirely possible for an atheist to be spiritual. Many things boil down to mere semantics, anyway. Atheism is much too ingrained with materialism to leave room for spirituality in any sense. Feel free to post your definition of spirituality. If atheists see the cosmos as something greater than themselves and something they're a part of, then couldn't that be considered a type of spirituality? I come from a pagan background where most of the spirituality was based on Nature, and I certainly didn't consider myself to be an atheist. But I also don't think that my experience walking by moonlight, or feeling the awesome power of a thunderstorm would be all that different than what an atheist would experience. People get so hung up on their labels and preconceptions. When you get beyond superficial differences, I really don't think we're all that different. I can usually find common ground with people from all spiritual backgrounds, and atheists are no exception.
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Post by Admin on Oct 6, 2021 3:54:04 GMT
Atheism is much too ingrained with materialism to leave room for spirituality in any sense. Feel free to post your definition of spirituality. If atheists see the cosmos as something greater than themselves and something they're a part of, then couldn't that be considered a type of spirituality? I come from a pagan background where most of the spirituality was based on Nature, and I certainly didn't consider myself to be an atheist. But I also don't think that my experience walking by moonlight, or feeling the awesome power of a thunderstorm would be all that different than what an atheist would experience. People get so hung up on their labels and preconceptions. When you get beyond superficial differences, I really don't think we're all that different. I can usually find common ground with people from all spiritual backgrounds, and atheists are no exception. Atheism isn't contested by size. Short people can be atheists, too. Those feelings you mention are merely molecular biology. Matter and energy is all there is.
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Post by Admin on Oct 6, 2021 3:54:44 GMT
Atheism is much too ingrained with materialism to leave room for spirituality in any sense. You’re not an atheist, therefore you don’t know that. You're not me, therefore you don't know that. For the record, I haven't always been on this side of the aisle. Also, one doesn't need to be something to understand something.
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Post by Admin on Oct 6, 2021 6:51:28 GMT
You're not me, therefore you don't know that. For the record, I haven't always been on this side of the aisle.Also, one doesn't need to be something to understand something. Well, that’s not my impression. But if so, then how you know what’s in the minds of myself and all however many millions of atheists out there. “ Atheism isn't contested by size. Short people can be atheists, too. Those feelings you mention are merely molecular biology. Matter and energy is all there is.”
And what is it, this matter and energy? My spirituality resides in contemplation of that question. I'm talking about atheism. You're talking about atheists. And that contemplation is just neurons firing off in your brain.
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Post by Admin on Oct 6, 2021 7:20:28 GMT
I'm talking about atheism. You're talking about atheists. And that contemplation is just neurons firing off in your brain. Atheists by definition do atheism. And both are words assigned in our culture as necessary descriptions of a subjective state of being that does not explain all one billion individual atheists or however many of us exist. There is no way to quantify it or us. You might be on the fence, but you use that fence to mount your high horse sometimes. I wish you all the best with your spiritual atheism, but there's no high horses here. No fence, either. Why must you always be like that?
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Post by Admin on Oct 6, 2021 7:34:46 GMT
I wish you all the best with your spiritual atheism, but there's no high horses here. No fence, either. Why must you always be like that?Because you ask for it. I think you need a new therapist.
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Post by politicidal on Oct 9, 2021 19:08:26 GMT
I don't think it's necessary.
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