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Post by NJtoTX on Nov 11, 2021 23:42:29 GMT
With a growing portion of Americans self-identifying as atheists, agnostics, or “nones,” Mike Rubens travels to “Sin City” to try and understand what this departure from organized religion means for our society...and our souls. fb.watch/9doL31v5fi/
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 12, 2021 0:17:25 GMT
The social science guy says that he worries for the future because churches use to creates bridges for community. Maybe if the churches and main ideas most churches preach hadn't burned those bridges then he might have some kind of point.
Maybe if organized religion hadn't been confusing people, telling lies, ignoring science in many cases and sending mixed messages, covering up for child rapists and murdering people for the last 4000 years then people might have stayed in the churches.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Here is what the biggest (or second biggest religion) in the world teaches. You are born bad. You will be tortured for all eternity if you don't obey. Homosexuality is evil and that a magic man in the sky created the universe and you better do what the human beings who think they know what said man in the sky that they can't even show exists wants then you are fucked.
Maybe if you took out all that psychologically damaging garbage, people might still be attending churches in the way the use to.
It is like the husband and father who beats his wife and kids on a daily basis and then wonders why his wife takes the kid and runs away from her husband. Then he says, but I put a roof over your heads and gave you food and I was nice sometimes. The wife and kid can find that in other places from people who aren't going to treat them terribly at the same time. It might be more difficult on their own in terms of money and a place to live, but at least they won't be being abused anymore and they will have their freedom.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 12, 2021 0:47:42 GMT
Mike Rubens is correct at the end when he says "God or not, we can help each other and lift each other up."
Maybe we can find a middle ground and get everybody to just see God and the Bible as metaphor as conceived entirely by human beings. Using logic and reason to find the answers and to help each other and not relying on a 2000 year old book or assumed divine unquestionable authority.
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Post by rizdek on Nov 12, 2021 1:09:28 GMT
With a growing portion of Americans self-identifying as atheists, agnostics, or “nones,” Mike Rubens travels to “Sin City” to try and understand what this departure from organized religion means for our society...and our souls. fb.watch/9doL31v5fi/ Do we think vegas is normal America?
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Post by NJtoTX on Nov 12, 2021 2:50:09 GMT
I don’t have Facebook. What is the gist of his argument? |
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 12, 2021 3:58:18 GMT
Mike Rubens is correct at the end when he says "God or not, we can help each other and lift each other up." Maybe we can find a middle ground and get everybody to just see God and the Bible as metaphor as conceived entirely by human beings. Using logic and reason to find the answers and to help each other and not relying on a 2000 year old book or assumed divine unquestionable authority. Just as in their very extreme conservative political views, the Good Christians do not want any criticism of any kind directed at them. As far as they’re concerned they have discovered the true, perfected version of Christianity and everyone else should obey them. You are correct and I have no idea how to even respond.
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Post by moviemouth on Nov 12, 2021 4:16:12 GMT
You are correct and I have no idea how to even respond. So many churches claim to have the definitive version of Christianity; they cannot all be right, but they can all be wrong. I meant I don't know what can be done about it or what to say that hasn't already been said.
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Post by mystery on Nov 12, 2021 5:55:48 GMT
IMO, the Sexual Revolution is what ultimately destroyed Christianity. In most Christian traditions, sexual misconduct was considered the #1 sin. And once extramarital sex was normalized and accepted, then the rest of Christian morality just fell like dominoes. Today, Evangelical Christianity is essentially amoral, from what I can tell. There are really no consequences for bad behavior, because people think they're saved no matter what, and their actions don't change that. The worst people I know in the real world all claim to be devout Christians, but they have no moral compass and no conscience, they worship their own egos and expect God to serve them, they are extremely greedy and materialistic, and they really have no concern for anyone but themselves. They have served as excellent role models for the type of person I don't want to become.
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Post by Zos on Nov 14, 2021 13:02:08 GMT
I think it was Lenny Bruce who said "I'm for God, just against the Church". The reason that Gnosticism was destroyed was because it didn't require the element of organised religion and so took power away from those who want to control the "message".
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2021 22:29:18 GMT
The religion is good guy is full of shit. The Good Christians have declared war on the unGodly Americans. These churches have rarely uplifted anyone or anything other than their own rancid opinions. Why do you consistently refuse to acknowledge the difference between Christians and churches? (I don't expect an actual response from you, so just consider it rhetorical.)
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2021 22:51:08 GMT
Why do you consistently refuse to acknowledge the difference between Christians and churches? (I don't expect an actual response from you, so just consider it rhetorical.) Of the hundreds of Christian denominations on the planet, which one is the correct? This isn't rhetorical. You're still doing it. That question presumes that Christianity is a denomination, that only one of them is correct, and that there is a correct one at all. And besides, I believe you answered your own question when you said Catholicism is Christianity. Leaving the church =/= leaving Christianity.
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2021 23:10:02 GMT
You're still doing it. That question presumes that Christianity is a denomination, that only one of them is correct, and that there is a correct one at all. And besides, I believe you answered your own question when you said Catholicism is Christianity. Leaving the church =/= leaving Christianity. I didn't ask is Christianity correct, I asked which Christian denomination is the correct one? That question presumes that Christianity is a denomination, that only one of them is correct, and that there is a correct one at all. Good talk. See ya.
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2021 23:28:06 GMT
That question presumes that Christianity is a denomination, that only one of them is correct, and that there is a correct one at all. Good talk. See ya. There is no presumption here. But I'll make it easier and group them into like theological categories. Between the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant Mainstream, Protestant Fundamentalist, Protestant Pentecostal Holiness, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Quakerism, Universalism, which is the correct church? Ask Jesus, maybe he'll bring a sword. At any rate, there are at least 3 presumptions there. I listed them twice. Three times around your carousel is enough for me today.
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2021 23:35:06 GMT
Ask Jesus, maybe he'll bring a sword. At any rate, there are at least 3 presumptions there. I listed them twice. Three times around your carousel is enough for me today. So, Jesus didn't bother to tell us which of his churches would be the correct one, that should tell us something. Maybe it should tell us that there isn't one. Where was Jesus' church, anyway? Do you really believe that one cannot be a Christian without being a member of any organized religion?
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Post by Admin on Nov 15, 2021 23:48:52 GMT
Maybe it should tell us that there isn't one. Where was Jesus' church, anyway? Do you really believe that one cannot be a Christian without being a member of any organized religion?Nope. Then why do you consistently equate Christianity with religion?
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Post by gadreel on Nov 16, 2021 0:03:21 GMT
Then why do you consistently equate Christianity with religion? Um, Christianity IS a religion. I think you missed his point, I am not convinced he was conflating Christian and church, he was saying 'Good Christians' (that is to say the self proclaimed ones) have declared themselves the correct christians and in any case the churches have not been instrumental in helping people as a rule anyway. Paul may correct me, but I dont see how your question makes sense in any reading of his statement.
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Post by Admin on Nov 16, 2021 0:18:05 GMT
Then why do you consistently equate Christianity with religion? Because Christianity can objectively be defined as a religion. Then, objectively, how can one be a Christian without being a member of a religion? Round and round you go...
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Post by Admin on Nov 16, 2021 1:25:50 GMT
Then, objectively, how can one be a Christian without being a member of a religion?Round and round you go... By being a follower of a religious teacher, rabbi, or guru and not necessarily a member of a church. It is the churches themselves that require a formal membership to an institution, not Jesus. Of all the things Jesus taught, being a member of a specific church was not one of them. Actually, he never stop calling himself a Jew and Jews are born into their religion not made members of a church via religious rite. I agree. A Christian is simply a follower of Jesus Christ. Religion need not apply, let alone Catholicism.
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Post by Admin on Nov 16, 2021 1:37:47 GMT
I agree. A Christian is simply a follower of Jesus Christ. Religion need not apply, let alone Catholicism. So, you don't belong to a church? Nope. Can I not be a Christian now? 
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Post by Admin on Nov 16, 2021 1:50:13 GMT
Nope. Can I not be a Christian now? Just asking. You're metaphysical journey is up to you. No followup questions? No scholarly lectures? Not even a big gotcha? I gotta admit, I'm a little disappointed. Oh well. Baby steps, I reckon. Til next time...
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