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Post by shinnickneth on Nov 29, 2021 17:12:41 GMT
news.yahoo.com/george-r-r-martin-flew-113700168.html
Interesting article. According to a new book by Andrew Miller (with participation from GRRM and GRRM's agent), D&D didn't stick to the template GRRM had given them. This is a direct contradiction to prior claims by others (behind the show, in front of the camera, at HBO) that the show and books were pretty much following the same story.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Nov 29, 2021 19:31:30 GMT
Yeah that would have been better.
Game of Thrones needed 10 seasons. and a 100 episodes.
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Post by Marv on Dec 1, 2021 5:04:55 GMT
Everyone knows the end was rushed for absolutely no reason other than nobody wanted to tell D and D they could hit the bricks and someone else could finish the show. It’s such a shame because several years of solid effort got hamstrung by a lackluster finish and it was all due to effort.
I just read that HBO is hoping to make a Dunk and Egg prequel series. This is the only spinoff I would personally have any interest in and I hope it comes to fruition.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Dec 1, 2021 7:31:48 GMT
Honestly, the show’s ending was doomed from day one. People act like it didn’t fall apart until the end, but the mistakes were set up from the beginning, even though the quality was higher early on. That show was never going to deliver a satisfying conclusion. It was impossible. That’s probably why GRRRM cannot seem to finish the books. He’s dug himself the same grave that the series did.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Dec 1, 2021 11:21:16 GMT
Honestly, the show’s ending was doomed from day one. People act like it didn’t fall apart until the end, but the mistakes were set up from the beginning, even though the quality was higher early on. That show was never going to deliver a satisfying conclusion. It was impossible. That’s probably why GRRRM cannot seem to finish the books. He’s dug himself the same grave that the series did. Yeah that is true. That could be the reason why George RR Martin don`t seem to be able to finish the books.
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Post by Spooky Ghost Ackbar on Dec 1, 2021 18:28:02 GMT
Honestly, the show’s ending was doomed from day one. People act like it didn’t fall apart until the end, but the mistakes were set up from the beginning, even though the quality was higher early on. That show was never going to deliver a satisfying conclusion. It was impossible. That’s probably why GRRRM cannot seem to finish the books. He’s dug himself the same grave that the series did. Yeah that is true. That could be the reason why George RR Martin don`t seem to be able to finish the books. Absolutely. And as mediocre as the ending was I think people are too hard on it for that reason. The story was set around the question of “Who will get the throne?”. So a predictable answer like Jon or Deny would’ve disappointed. Yet, a surprising answer, like Bran, just left people angry and confused. The big threat was a bunch of zombie monsters that barely factored into the plot and were only teased in glimpses. Yet fans were surprised when the pay off was quick and hollow. They played up big shocking deaths and twists over character arcs so there was never going to be satisfactory endings for the main characters. It’s what people loved about the show, but putting shock value and plot twists over character arcs rarely ends well unless that plot remains brilliant all the way through. The characterization was excellent, but the character arcs were horrendous. The writers constantly played to a fan base with a “Team (Insert Character)” mentality so this led to massive outrage when inevitably one character triumphed over another. And characters like Deny, who was always meant to turn evil, had all the set up to that change downplayed for years, presumably to not anger the fans who loved her, which of course led to a rushed change of heart that pissed off fans even more. Good conclusions require precise planning and set up. This “mystery box” type of writing always fails.
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Post by shinnickneth on Dec 1, 2021 18:30:36 GMT
Yeah that is true. That could be the reason why George RR Martin don`t seem to be able to finish the books. Part of the problem is that GRRM set-up too many characters and side plots. I don't know how he would keep track of all of them at this point... it's so much for one writer to juggle! Now he finds himself in a place where he's got to start wrapping up all those in a satisfying manner, and it's probably pretty daunting for him.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Dec 1, 2021 21:25:19 GMT
Yeah that is true. That could be the reason why George RR Martin don`t seem to be able to finish the books. Absolutely. And as mediocre as the ending was I think people are too hard on it for that reason. The story was set around the question of “Who will get the throne?”. So a predictable answer like Jon or Deny would’ve disappointed. Yet, a surprising answer, like Bran, just left people angry and confused. The big threat was a bunch of zombie monsters that barely factored into the plot and were only teased in glimpses. Yet fans were surprised when the pay off was quick and hollow. They played up big shocking deaths and twists over character arcs so there was never going to be satisfactory endings for the main characters. It’s what people loved about the show, but putting shock value and plot twists over character arcs rarely ends well unless that plot remains brilliant all the way through. The characterization was excellent, but the character arcs were horrendous. The writers constantly played to a fan base with a “Team (Insert Character)” mentality so this led to massive outrage when inevitably one character triumphed over another. And characters like Deny, who was always meant to turn evil, had all the set up to that change downplayed for years, presumably to not anger the fans who loved her, which of course led to a rushed change of heart that pissed off fans even more. Good conclusions require precise planning and set up. This “mystery box” type of writing always fails. I agree with everything you write here.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Dec 1, 2021 21:27:32 GMT
Yeah that is true. That could be the reason why George RR Martin don`t seem to be able to finish the books. Part of the problem is that GRRM set-up too many characters and side plots. I don't know how he would keep track of all of them at this point... it's so much for one writer to juggle! Now he finds himself in a place where he's got to start wrapping up all those in a satisfying manner, and it's probably pretty daunting for him. Yeah that is part of the problem. Frankly i think its time to just accept that we are never going to get the last two books.
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Post by shinnickneth on Dec 2, 2021 17:53:51 GMT
Yeah that is part of the problem. Frankly i think its time to just accept that we are never going to get the last two books. Fair assessment.  It wouldn't be the same for me even if he did eventually release them. Roy Dotrice, who narrated all the published books (also was in GOT), died in 2017. I can't imagine anyone else doing it. I even found Dotrice's incorrect way of pronouncing some of the names a little endearing. 
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