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Post by politicidal on Dec 6, 2021 5:23:58 GMT
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Post by timshelboy on Dec 6, 2021 8:07:15 GMT
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Post by GiantFan1980 on Dec 6, 2021 8:29:20 GMT
I was conversing with someone recently about Fred Astaire. This is taken from his wiki page:
"Astaire's life has never been portrayed on film.[71] He always refused permission for such portrayals, saying, "However much they offer me—and offers come in all the time—I shall not sell."[72] Astaire's will included a clause requesting that no such portrayal ever take place; he commented, "It is there because I have no particular desire to have my life misinterpreted, which it would be."[73]
Death"
So screw this for not honoring his wish.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 6, 2021 11:51:47 GMT
I was conversing with someone recently about Fred Astaire. This is taken from his wiki page: "Astaire's life has never been portrayed on film.[71] He always refused permission for such portrayals, saying, "However much they offer me—and offers come in all the time—I shall not sell."[72] Astaire's will included a clause requesting that no such portrayal ever take place; he commented, "It is there because I have no particular desire to have my life misinterpreted, which it would be."[73] Death" So screw this for not honoring his wish. I wonder if his children will say anything about it, one way or another?
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Post by Doghouse6 on Dec 6, 2021 15:00:31 GMT
I was conversing with someone recently about Fred Astaire. This is taken from his wiki page: "Astaire's life has never been portrayed on film.[71] He always refused permission for such portrayals, saying, "However much they offer me—and offers come in all the time—I shall not sell."[72] Astaire's will included a clause requesting that no such portrayal ever take place; he commented, "It is there because I have no particular desire to have my life misinterpreted, which it would be."[73] Death" So screw this for not honoring his wish. I wonder if his children will say anything about it, one way or another? Or his widow, Robyn. Perhaps she already has. She's always jealously guarded his image, going so far as to refuse its use in broadcast retrospectives such as Ginger Rogers's Kennedy Center honors. She did, however, see fit to license it for a vacuum cleaner commercial some years back. Maybe it's only the size of the paycheck. I'm not at all familiar with Mr. Holland, so can't comment on his appropriateness to the role (although the link says he's had some professional dance experience). Still, it's a very tall mountain for any performer to challenge. That said, his comments from the link seemed somewhat vague and offhand regarding the project, mentioning he hadn't even seen a script. It may well be among the myriad projects that get announced but never find their way into production. If it does, curiosity alone will likely attract my attention, just as it did with the recent Laurel & Hardy film, which generated admiration and disdain in equal measure. As with that one, my fear would be that manufactured conflicts and the like would be indulged for the sake of sensationalized melodrama. My understanding of Astaire's life is that, beyond the professional realm, it was largely the relatively sedate one of a dedicated family man.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 6, 2021 15:34:25 GMT
There's no way to tell until anyone sees the movie, of course, but (speaking optimistically) the movie could, despite Astaire's misgivings and wishes, turn out to be good for his legacy. I wonder how many people under 40, nearly 35 years after Astaire's death, have any appreciation or even awareness of Astaire's truly unique and unparalleled artistry? Maybe only a relative few. A film like this, if done right, could spark in young people an interest in the real Fred Astaire and his films.
If it did, then maybe Fred would approve, after all.
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Post by mikef6 on Dec 6, 2021 16:05:44 GMT
I really hate bio-pics. Every time I see one I am amazed once more how much a person's life fits neatly into one or two typical Hollywood storylines. Couple that with Fred's wish for this NOT to happen and I have two great reasons to never go near this movie should it ever get made.
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Post by Ollie Vander on Dec 6, 2021 16:16:12 GMT
Astaire's life can be shown in compilations of his dancing and his acting.
His private life is, and should remain, per his wishes, private.
I wish that I had never seen The Greatest Showman ... a major faux bio if ever there was one with no reason at all to embellish a fantastic and fascinating life with fake story lines and twisting of reality.
Major "bio" idiocy recently includes casting a tall thin man to play short and dumpy William 'Fred Mertz' Frawley and a blonde Australian to play Lucille Ball.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 6, 2021 16:53:38 GMT
Astaire's life can be shown in compilations of his dancing and his acting. His private life is, and should remain, per his wishes, private.
I wish that I had never seen The Greatest Showman ... a major faux bio if ever there was one with no reason at all to embellish a fantastic and fascinating life with fake story lines and twisting of reality. Major "bio" idiocy recently includes casting a tall thin man to play short and dumpy William 'Fred Mertz' Frawley and a blonde Australian to play Lucille Ball. What one want or expects of a show biz bio will greatly color our opinions. Now me, I enjoyed The Greatest Showman. I was expecting some sort of musical phantasmagoria inspired by the life of Barnum, and didn't care at all about factual accuracy. As for the Astaire movie, we have no idea how much of his private life will even be portrayed. Maybe the bare minimum, since it was quite stable. And maybe it's not even a full bio (the article might just be throwing the word "biopic" out there). Maybe it just covers an interesting episode in his life. Given Holland's age, it could cover his Broadway years and finish with "Flying Down To Rio". Anything's possible. Anyway, I do hope his children will say something. It would carry weight.
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Post by Ollie Vander on Dec 6, 2021 17:02:54 GMT
Isapop"I was expecting some sort of musical phantasmagoria inspired by the life of Barnum" BUT they claimed it to be a BIOGRAPHY of Barnum which except for bare bones accuracy, it was NOT ! If one wants only to make a movie about a fake impresario ... don't claim that it is a BIOGRAPHY of a real person.
Hollywood classic biopics are notoriously inaccurate but with information so available today there really is no excuse for such blatant fakery such as faux romance and claims of arson.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 6, 2021 17:14:08 GMT
Isapop "I was expecting some sort of musical phantasmagoria inspired by the life of Barnum" BUT they claimed it to be a BIOGRAPHY of Barnum which except for bare bones accuracy, it was NOT ! If one wants only to make a movie about a fake impresario ... don't claim that it is a BIOGRAPHY of a real person.
Hollywood classic biopics are notoriously inaccurate but with information so available today there really is no excuse for such blatant fakery such as faux romance and claims of arson. I had no idea of what claims were being made about it, so that worked to my advantage. I was just browsing for something to put on my Netflix DVD queue (which was becoming barren), saw the title, saw it was a musical, saw Hugh Jackman (which is a good sign, for me) and thought, "Give it a try". And on those terms, I was glad I did. And while I was enjoying it, I never gave a thought to whether any of it was true.
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Post by marshamae on Dec 6, 2021 17:18:25 GMT
Astaire was intensely private in his lifetime. His feelings about his sister Adele leaving the stage, marrying into the Cavendish family, his mother’s opposition to his marriage to his first wife Phyllis, he had no comment on any of those. He named at least 6 actresses as his favorite partners, and he only commented on the dancing ability of two. He has said that Ginger Rogers wasn’t much of a dancer when they started but she worked hard and got better. Of Eleanor Powell, he said that she hit the floor hard like a man , and that he had to work to keep up with her.
With this dearth of first hand material what could this film be but fiction, like most bio pics? I am a little put off by Holland’s blithe assurance that his dance experience makes him suitable for the part when Balanchine and Barishnikov marveled at Astaire’s dancing and found him hard to emulate. I have watched a lot of wonderful dancers do numbers inspired by Astaire and the only one that seemed close was bob Fosse. Charlotte Damboise, the daughter of Jacques D’Amboise of seven Brides for Seven brothers, has the vibe. Would they consider casting her This could be an interesting film, dancers trying and failing , or succeeding in matching him, intercut with biography.
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Post by Ollie Vander on Dec 6, 2021 17:20:47 GMT
Isapop"I never gave a thought to whether any of it was true"  a case of ignorance bringing bliss !
It seems that knowing about the subject of a biography is a reason to avoid "bio pics" .. at least until it becomes clear (from reading the commentary) how far from reality they are. Glad you enjoyed the film .. I hated it with a passion because I had eagerly awaited it because of the subject and the cast and watching it, knew how fake and unjust it was to the subject.
all of which is OT so rant over (in this thread anyway) . 
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Post by Ollie Vander on Dec 6, 2021 17:28:07 GMT
marshamaeAges ago, there was a special with Barishnikov where he speaks of his admiration for Astaire and says one of the reasons he left the USSR was so he would have the freedom to try to dance like him. It may have been the Twyla Tharp special .. it was on PBS. Somewhere I have a fuzzy copy from BetaMax days.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 6, 2021 17:28:23 GMT
Astaire was intensely private in his lifetime. His feelings about his sister Adele leaving the stage, marrying into the Cavendish family, his mother’s opposition to his marriage to his first wife Phyllis, he had no comment on any of those. He named at least 6 actresses as his favorite partners, and he only commented on the dancing ability of two. He has said that Ginger Rogers wasn’t much of a dancer when they started but she worked hard and got better. Of Eleanor Powell, he said that she hit the floor hard like a man , and that he had to work to keep up with her. With this dearth of first hand material what could this film be but fiction, like most bio pics? I am a little put off by Holland’s blithe assurance that his dance experience makes him suitable for the part when Balanchine and Barishnikov marveled at his dancing and found him hard to emulate. I have watched a lot of wonderful dancers do numbers inspired by Astaire and the only one that seemed close was bob Fosse. Charlotte Damboise, the daughter of Jacques D’Ambiose of seven Brides for Seven brothers, has the vibe. Would they consider casting her? I've always thought a good biopic of Astaire is impossible because what he did could be approximated, but never equaled. And with that kind of obstacle, how is any biopic going to convey the magic? We don't know what these filmmakers are going to try to do. But I am curious.
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Post by Isapop on Dec 6, 2021 17:35:34 GMT
Isapop "I never gave a thought to whether any of it was true" a case of ignorance bringing bliss !
In the case of "The Greatest Showman", precisely!
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Post by marshamae on Dec 6, 2021 18:52:44 GMT
marshamae Ages ago, there was a special with Barishnikov where he speaks of his admiration for Astaire and says one of the reasons he left the USSR was so he would have the freedom to try to dance like him. It may have been the Twyla Tharp special .. it was on PBS. Somewhere I have a fuzzy copy from BetaMax days. Baryshnikov talked about Astaire a lot in his early years in the US. I have wondered if it was something he said to curry favor with American audiences. His Sinatra pieces with Twyla Tharp were some examples. No dancer worth his salt wants to be a copy of anyone. Baryshnikov came here to dance period, not to trade one kind of national restrictive regulation for another. Astaire is hard to replicate partly because of his body type, especially his large hands. He rarely presents a straight line. He curves into his partner, bends his knees, holds is hands in various curves to hide their size. view Fred’s dance with various objects in a gym from a Royal Wedding, with Kelly’s You wonderful you solo from Summer Stock also a dance with found objects. Both dances show the ballet influence of the dancers training, but they Could not be more different.
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Post by Ollie Vander on Dec 6, 2021 19:29:48 GMT
marshamae I took Baryshnikov to be saying that he wanted the freedom to dance something other than ballet IF he wanted to without being told what he could or could not do and not so much to be a copy. Watched Fred and Gene dancing together in something-or-other ..it was a clip on YouTube so not sure what the source was ... had to re-run it a few times to watch them together, then specifically Gene, then Fred. Love to watch the found object interactions. Never noticed the size of Fred's hands BUT for some reason always notice how small Cagney's feet are !  EDIT: found it .. "The only time he and Gene Kelly ever danced together on screen (other than the linking-segments in the 1976 compilation movie, That's Entertainment, Part II (1976)) was in one routine, titled "The Babbitt and the Bromide" in the 1946 movie Ziegfeld Follies (1945)."and "Astaire disguised his very large hands by curling his middle two fingers while dancing."
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Post by lune7000 on Dec 6, 2021 20:44:54 GMT
Astair must have realized he would become the subject if a bio whether approved or not. Did Astair ever portray someone else in a bio? It would seem he wouldn't on principle.
This film seems like a lose/lose for the actor portraying Astair- he will be compared unfavorably no matter how good he is.
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Post by claudius on Dec 6, 2021 21:03:20 GMT
Vernon Castle in THE STORY OF VERNON AND IRENE CASTLE (1939).
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