|
Post by phantomparticle on Dec 7, 2021 1:07:08 GMT
I detest Whoopi Goldberg, Madonna and Rosie O'Donnell, but do I want them banned from the industry?
Absolutely not.
Those who advocate the canceling of people they dislike are more reprehensible than the ones they wish to eliminate. If you don't like their lifestyles, simply avoid them at the box office and let the market determine their professional fates.
|
|
|
Post by darksidebeadle on Dec 7, 2021 4:04:06 GMT
Who the fuck is Joshua Malina
|
|
|
Post by darkreviewer2013 on Dec 7, 2021 10:00:10 GMT
Mel Gibson is clearly no angel and some of the stories I've read about him over the years to make him out to be a bit of a dick (to say the least) but an actor/director having "problematic" political views isn't really an issue for me unless they're using the artform to produce Birth of a Nation style hate propaganda. He's an accomplished actor and a superb film director who has already been penalized for his past reproachable behaviour. If some people aren't comfortable attending his movies then that's entirely their prerogative, but let's keep people's personal lives and politics out of their film-related endeavors.
|
|
|
Post by dwightmachinehead on Dec 7, 2021 12:44:26 GMT
This Joshua guy seems pretty hateful on Mel Gibsons, I'd say cancel him but I don't even know who he is.
|
|
|
Post by Vits on Dec 7, 2021 15:27:56 GMT
Joshua isn't so much trying to cancel Mel as much as asking for the concept of cancellation to be validated. It seems that he's just as tired as the rest of us of hearing celebrities complain about cancel culture, even though no has really been affected by it. OK, so Mel isn't the number 1 movie star, but he's still getting roles on a regular basis (sometimes in studio films), including a possible directorial gig for "Lethal Weapon 5." He got a freaking Oscar nomination 5 years ago! Louie C.K. got a Grammy nomination the other day. Kevin Spacey was recently cast in a movie. I could go on. Isn't cancellation supposed to be an alternative to jail when the individual can't get arrested? If so, how many celebrities get no new jobs whatsoever? There are celebrities whose works aren't massively distributed anymore, but are they completely unavailable? And hey, I'm not against forgiveness, but what exactly have the aforementioned examples done to earn it? In fact, when Ricky Gervais insulted Mel at the Golden Globes, his reply was essentially "Those accusations aren't true" (even though there's concrete evidence). To all of you who are asking if this is truly necessary when we can just enjoy the movies without thinking about the celebrity's personal life: True cancellation is reserved for people who are dangerous and who don't stop until they're stopped by others (see: Harvey Weinstein). Keep in mind that Mel has gotten into controversies since the early 90s. It just so happens that, in 2006, he couldn't do any damage control. That's when his career started to slow down, but it never ended. He then did another awful thing in 2010 that he couldn't fix with a press release, but his career didn't end either. Bottom line: This isn't about aligning to someone's politics. This isn't something that can be solved by changing the channel to watch a different movie than the one starring the controversial figure. This is a criminal whose behavior has been and will continue to be encouraged until something is done about it. We don't need to hang him or throw stones at him. We just need to make sure he's isolated from society until he learns his lesson... if he ever learns it. an actor/director having "problematic" political views isn't really an issue for me unless they're using the artform to produce Birth of a Nation style hate propaganda. Did you not see "The Passion of the Christ"?
|
|
lune7000
Junior Member
@lune7000
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 678
|
Post by lune7000 on Dec 7, 2021 21:23:31 GMT
There would be no problem if Gibson were one of the many Hollywood stars who support socialism- which caused over 90 million deaths in the 20th century (5 times more than the Nazi's) Uh no, that "90 million" number came from a book called "The Black of Communism" which has never actually been factually verified, in fact many people who worked on that book came out and questioned the validity of the number. Don't get me wrong, Stalin was a brutal dictator that slaughtered countless people, but that number isn't widely accept amongst actual historians. As for "many Hollywood stars who support socialism", how many can you name that actually supported Sanders in the last two primaries? Most of them were shilling for the neoliberal/centrist candidates (Hilary and Biden) Uh yes.. that 90 million number of deaths caused by Socialism is very accurate and did not come from a book but from my own addiction of deaths from: The Russian Revolution The Great Famine that followed Soviet genocide of Kulaks and Ukrainians Mass Soviet deaths from show trials and Stalin purges Soviet genocide of Poles Chinese Civil war started by Socialists Korean War (started by Socialists) The Great Leap Forward related mass starvation by Mao (over 40 million here alone- but party members ate well!) Vietnam War (started by Socialists) Communist aggression in the Congo Khmer Rouge genocide in Cambodia Ongoing starvation deaths in Cuba, N. Korea and Venezuela Everywhere the Socialist have gained power has been followed by mass death. But you won't see many movies about this as Hollywood doesn't want people to know- might mess up their narrative As for Hollywood support of Socialists, here are two articles that show the list is long - he got major amounts of money from Hollywood www.yahoo.com/entertainment/s/bernie-sanders-hollywood-support-surges-steal-hillary-clinton-220630469.htmlwww.mic.com/p/the-list-of-celebrities-who-support-bernie-sanders-is-really-really-long-22585285But I guess its OK to support a political system that has killed far more than the Nazi's
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 7, 2021 21:59:11 GMT
Uh no, that "90 million" number came from a book called "The Black of Communism" which has never actually been factually verified, in fact many people who worked on that book came out and questioned the validity of the number. Don't get me wrong, Stalin was a brutal dictator that slaughtered countless people, but that number isn't widely accept amongst actual historians. As for "many Hollywood stars who support socialism", how many can you name that actually supported Sanders in the last two primaries? Most of them were shilling for the neoliberal/centrist candidates (Hilary and Biden) Uh yes.. that 90 million number of deaths caused by Socialism is very accurate and did not come from a book but from my own addiction of deaths from: The Russian Revolution The Great Famine that followed Soviet genocide of Kulaks and Ukrainians Mass Soviet deaths from show trials and Stalin purges Soviet genocide of Poles Chinese Civil war started by Socialists Korean War (started by Socialists) The Great Leap Forward related mass starvation by Mao (over 40 million here alone- but party members ate well!) Vietnam War (started by Socialists) Communist aggression in the Congo Khmer Rouge genocide in Cambodia Ongoing starvation deaths in Cuba, N. Korea and Venezuela Everywhere the Socialist have gained power has been followed by mass death. But you won't see many movies about this as Hollywood doesn't want people to know- might mess up their narrative As for Hollywood support of Socialists, here are two articles that show the list is long - he got major amounts of money from Hollywood www.yahoo.com/entertainment/s/bernie-sanders-hollywood-support-surges-steal-hillary-clinton-220630469.htmlwww.mic.com/p/the-list-of-celebrities-who-support-bernie-sanders-is-really-really-long-22585285But I guess its OK to support a political system that has killed far more than the Nazi's
"come from a book but from my own addiction of deaths from" So in other words, not from actual academic consensus but your own half-assed "research". Gotcha. You realize this is the same argument Holocaust deniers use, right ("Well if you do your own research instead of jewish controlled historians, you can clearly see it was greatly exaggerated!"). Find me one valid historian that is actually willing to back up your claim. You can try Googling it, you'll find pretty much nothing but right wing hacks noone take seriously (and probably a few Nazis). Also you do realize US has historically tried to overthrow countless democratically elected leaders and replace them with right wing/fascist dictators, right? By your reasoning that must be the fault of capitalism right? "Everywhere the Socialist have gained power has been followed by mass death. But you won't see many movies about this as Hollywood doesn't want people to know- might mess up their narrative" Except for all those countless movies about Vietnam and the Cold War (Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, Manchurian Candidate, Rocky V, Red Daw). Try again. "As for Hollywood support of Socialists, here are two articles that show the list is long - he got major amounts of money from Hollywood" Uh except those articles don't contradict what I said (Hilary and Biden got way more support), in fact it even reaffirms it: But Clinton’s list of Hollywood donors arguably eclipses all other candidates combined and is longer than a “Lord of the Rings” marathon on TBS. According to numbers released at the end of the last quarter, Clinton won the fundraising race by a landslide, collecting nearly $98 million. During that same time, Sanders raised less than half that amount, with only $134,000 coming from Hollywood. A recent L.A Times report showed $9 out of every $10 donated by Hollywood has ended up in Clinton’s coffers. LOL, so your idea of "major amounts of money" is 1/10 what Hilary got? Oh OK. "But I guess its OK to support a political system that has killed far more than the Nazi's" Uh then why isn't your position backed up by academic consensus?
|
|
lune7000
Junior Member
@lune7000
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 678
|
Post by lune7000 on Dec 8, 2021 2:37:54 GMT
Uh yes.. that 90 million number of deaths caused by Socialism is very accurate and did not come from a book but from my own addiction of deaths from: The Russian Revolution The Great Famine that followed Soviet genocide of Kulaks and Ukrainians Mass Soviet deaths from show trials and Stalin purges Soviet genocide of Poles Chinese Civil war started by Socialists Korean War (started by Socialists) The Great Leap Forward related mass starvation by Mao (over 40 million here alone- but party members ate well!) Vietnam War (started by Socialists) Communist aggression in the Congo Khmer Rouge genocide in Cambodia Ongoing starvation deaths in Cuba, N. Korea and Venezuela Everywhere the Socialist have gained power has been followed by mass death. But you won't see many movies about this as Hollywood doesn't want people to know- might mess up their narrative As for Hollywood support of Socialists, here are two articles that show the list is long - he got major amounts of money from Hollywood www.yahoo.com/entertainment/s/bernie-sanders-hollywood-support-surges-steal-hillary-clinton-220630469.htmlwww.mic.com/p/the-list-of-celebrities-who-support-bernie-sanders-is-really-really-long-22585285But I guess its OK to support a political system that has killed far more than the Nazi's
"come from a book but from my own addiction of deaths from" So in other words, not from actual academic consensus but your own half-assed "research". Gotcha. You realize this is the same argument Holocaust deniers use, right ("Well if you do your own research instead of jewish controlled historians, you can clearly see it was greatly exaggerated!"). Find me one valid historian that is actually willing to back up your claim. You can try Googling it, you'll find pretty much nothing but right wing hacks noone take seriously (and probably a few Nazis). Also you do realize US has historically tried to overthrow countless democratically elected leaders and replace them with right wing/fascist dictators, right? By your reasoning that must be the fault of capitalism right? "Everywhere the Socialist have gained power has been followed by mass death. But you won't see many movies about this as Hollywood doesn't want people to know- might mess up their narrative" Except for all those countless movies about Vietnam and the Cold War (Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, Manchurian Candidate, Rocky V, Red Daw). Try again. "As for Hollywood support of Socialists, here are two articles that show the list is long - he got major amounts of money from Hollywood" Uh except those articles don't contradict what I said (Hilary and Biden got way more support), in fact it even reaffirms it: But Clinton’s list of Hollywood donors arguably eclipses all other candidates combined and is longer than a “Lord of the Rings” marathon on TBS. According to numbers released at the end of the last quarter, Clinton won the fundraising race by a landslide, collecting nearly $98 million. During that same time, Sanders raised less than half that amount, with only $134,000 coming from Hollywood. A recent L.A Times report showed $9 out of every $10 donated by Hollywood has ended up in Clinton’s coffers. LOL, so your idea of "major amounts of money" is 1/10 what Hilary got? Oh OK. "But I guess its OK to support a political system that has killed far more than the Nazi's" Uh then why isn't your position backed up by academic consensus? Hilarious- YOU are the denier and you just outed yourself with that post- any reader can see it! I guess all those books documenting the mass starvation of millions under Socialism are ALL written by "right wing hacks". I guess ALL the reports of starvation in North Korea is just a giant conspiracy to make socialists look bad- CNN, NYT, WaPo and all the other networks are involved in the biggest conspiracy ever (bigger than UFO's I hear!). So is Google too since you are scared of me finding documentation there and are trying desperately to pre-empt any rebuttal by smearing any sources that disagree with you as "right wing hacks". But the average person can tell that the Socialist recipe of giving absolute power to the govt. always leads to a bad ending- power corrupts. Of course, power corrupts even faster when you give it to people who are already violent like your Antifa friends who beat the crap out of anyone who has views different from theirs- maybe you have done this? (but that ski mask does makes you look snappy! ) Nobody is buying your story that Socialism has been framed. You might consider a vacation to North Korea- I hear people there are just "dying" to get out and have some fun! You'll fit right in!
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 8, 2021 3:57:03 GMT
"come from a book but from my own addiction of deaths from" So in other words, not from actual academic consensus but your own half-assed "research". Gotcha. You realize this is the same argument Holocaust deniers use, right ("Well if you do your own research instead of jewish controlled historians, you can clearly see it was greatly exaggerated!"). Find me one valid historian that is actually willing to back up your claim. You can try Googling it, you'll find pretty much nothing but right wing hacks noone take seriously (and probably a few Nazis). Also you do realize US has historically tried to overthrow countless democratically elected leaders and replace them with right wing/fascist dictators, right? By your reasoning that must be the fault of capitalism right? "Everywhere the Socialist have gained power has been followed by mass death. But you won't see many movies about this as Hollywood doesn't want people to know- might mess up their narrative" Except for all those countless movies about Vietnam and the Cold War (Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, Manchurian Candidate, Rocky V, Red Daw). Try again. "As for Hollywood support of Socialists, here are two articles that show the list is long - he got major amounts of money from Hollywood" Uh except those articles don't contradict what I said (Hilary and Biden got way more support), in fact it even reaffirms it: But Clinton’s list of Hollywood donors arguably eclipses all other candidates combined and is longer than a “Lord of the Rings” marathon on TBS. According to numbers released at the end of the last quarter, Clinton won the fundraising race by a landslide, collecting nearly $98 million. During that same time, Sanders raised less than half that amount, with only $134,000 coming from Hollywood. A recent L.A Times report showed $9 out of every $10 donated by Hollywood has ended up in Clinton’s coffers. LOL, so your idea of "major amounts of money" is 1/10 what Hilary got? Oh OK. "But I guess its OK to support a political system that has killed far more than the Nazi's" Uh then why isn't your position backed up by academic consensus? Hilarious- YOU are the denier and you just outed yourself with that post- any reader can see it! I guess all those books documenting the mass starvation of millions under Socialism are ALL written by "right wing hacks". I guess ALL the reports of starvation in North Korea is just a giant conspiracy to make socialists look bad- CNN, NYT, WaPo and all the other networks are involved in the biggest conspiracy ever (bigger than UFO's I hear!). So is Google too since you are scared of me finding documentation there and are trying desperately to pre-empt any rebuttal by smearing any sources that disagree with you as "right wing hacks". But the average person can tell that the Socialist recipe of giving absolute power to the govt. always leads to a bad ending- power corrupts. Of course, power corrupts even faster when you give it to people who are already violent like your Antifa friends who beat the crap out of anyone who has views different from theirs- maybe you have done this? (but that ski mask does makes you look snappy! ) Nobody is buying your story that Socialism has been framed. You might consider a vacation to North Korea- I hear people there are just "dying" to get out and have some fun! You'll fit right in! So you're not gonna address anything I actually said and are just gonna pivot to something else. OK. Evasion noted. I'll address your other low IQ arguments I suppose. "Hilarious- YOU are the denier and you just outed yourself with that post- any reader can see it!" What have I actually "denied"? Name one example. "I guess all those books documenting the mass starvation of millions under Socialism are ALL written by "right wing hacks". Uh no, I asked you to name me an actual valid historian that would validate "90 million people killed under socialism" (which you didn't do BTW). Nice strawman. "I guess ALL the reports of starvation in North Korea is just a giant conspiracy to make socialists look bad- CNN, NYT, WaPo and all the other networks are involved in the biggest conspiracy ever (bigger than UFO's I hear!)." This doesn't refute at all what I said. I asked you to provide an actual valid historian that would back up your "90 million" claim(you still haven't provided one) "But the average person can tell that the Socialist recipe of giving absolute power to the govt." The "average person"? You do realize Bernie Sanders is one of the most popular politicians in the US, right? "Of course, power corrupts even faster when you give it to people who are already violent like your Antifa friends who beat the crap out of anyone who has views different from theirs" Uh no, ANITFA typically only protests fascists (which BTW have killed far more people than ANTIFA) "Nobody is buying your story that Socialism has been framed." You haven't addressed anything I actually said, you just make strawmans and pivot to something else. Probably because you're too stupid to address to my actual arguments. "You might consider a vacation to North Korea- I hear people there are just "dying" to get out and have some fun! You'll fit right in!" Good thing North Korea isn't actually "socialist" (I don't think you know what the term actually means)
|
|
|
Post by darkreviewer2013 on Dec 8, 2021 6:55:48 GMT
Joshua isn't so much trying to cancel Mel as much as asking for the concept of cancellation to be validated. It seems that he's just as tired as the rest of us of hearing celebrities complain about cancel culture, even though no has really been affected by it. OK, so Mel isn't the number 1 movie star, but he's still getting roles on a regular basis (sometimes in studio films), including a possible directorial gig for "Lethal Weapon 5." He got a freaking Oscar nomination 5 years ago! Louie C.K. got a Grammy nomination the other day. Kevin Spacey was recently cast in a movie. I could go on. Isn't cancellation supposed to be an alternative to jail when the individual can't get arrested? If so, how many celebrities get no new jobs whatsoever? There are celebrities whose works aren't massively distributed anymore, but are they completely unavailable? And hey, I'm not against forgiveness, but what exactly have the aforementioned examples done to earn it? In fact, when Ricky Gervais insulted Mel at the Golden Globes, his reply was essentially "Those accusations aren't true" (even though there's concrete evidence). To all of you who are asking if this is truly necessary when we can just enjoy the movies without thinking about the celebrity's personal life: True cancellation is reserved for people who are dangerous and who don't stop until they're stopped by others (see: Harvey Weinstein). Keep in mind that Mel has gotten into controversies since the early 90s. It just so happens that, in 2006, he couldn't do any damage control. That's when his career started to slow down, but it never ended. He then did another awful thing in 2010 that he couldn't fix with a press release, but his career didn't end either. Bottom line: This isn't about aligning to someone's politics. This isn't something that can be solved by changing the channel to watch a different movie than the one starring the controversial figure. This is a criminal whose behavior has been and will continue to be encouraged until something is done about it. We don't need to hang him or throw stones at him. We just need to make sure he's isolated from society until he learns his lesson... if he ever learns it. an actor/director having "problematic" political views isn't really an issue for me unless they're using the artform to produce Birth of a Nation style hate propaganda. Did you not see "The Passion of the Christ"? I have not seen The Passion of the Christ, no. Well can I recall the hype but the subject matter didn't appeal to me.
|
|
lune7000
Junior Member
@lune7000
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 678
|
Post by lune7000 on Dec 8, 2021 21:17:59 GMT
Good thing North Korea isn't actually "socialist" (I don't think you know what the term actually means) hmmm... so now you are moving on to re-defining Socialism? That's an old leftist trick and it ain't foolin' nobody! You do realize that communist USSR stood for the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics? You expect people to fall for this? As Biden might say.... C'mon man! Socialism has only one outcome in every nation it has been tried- dictatorship and starvation. And the oldest tick that Socialist try to play is to say: "that wasn't Socialism, this time will be different (trust us!)" But your Antifa friends betray your desire for violence. Again, the average person knows it is not a good idea to give total power to the government- power corrupts. Think about that as you gaze at your Stalin poster.
|
|
|
Post by Vits on Dec 8, 2021 21:22:31 GMT
Joshua isn't so much trying to cancel Mel as much as asking for the concept of cancellation to be validated. It seems that he's just as tired as the rest of us of hearing celebrities complain about cancel culture, even though no has really been affected by it. OK, so Mel isn't the number 1 movie star, but he's still getting roles on a regular basis (sometimes in studio films), including a possible directorial gig for "Lethal Weapon 5." He got a freaking Oscar nomination 5 years ago! Louie C.K. got a Grammy nomination the other day. Kevin Spacey was recently cast in a movie. I could go on. Ellen DeGeneres and Kevin Hart won at the People's Choice Awards. I rest my case.
|
|
|
Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 8, 2021 21:31:42 GMT
Good thing North Korea isn't actually "socialist" (I don't think you know what the term actually means) hmmm... so now you are moving on to re-defining Socialism? That's an old leftist trick and it ain't foolin' nobody! You do realize that communist USSR stood for the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics? You expect people to fall for this? As Biden might say.... C'mon man! Socialism has only one outcome in every nation it has been tried- dictatorship and starvation. And the oldest tick that Socialist try to play is to say: "that wasn't Socialism, this time will be different (trust us!)" But your Antifa friends betray your desire for violence. Again, the average person knows it is not a good idea to give total power to the government- power corrupts. Think about that as you gaze at your Stalin poster. "hmmm... so now you are moving on to re-defining Socialism?" No, it's self evident you don't actually know what the term means. Your crippling stupidity has well demosntrated that. "You do realize that communist USSR stood for the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics?" Oh so if they call themselves something it must automatically be true? You mean kinda how like China is currently ruled by the People's "Republic" of China or how Japan is currently ruled by the "Liberal" Democratic Party (a party that is quite right wing and anti-immigration). Do I really need to explain to you why what you said was very low IQ? "Socialism has only one outcome in every nation it has been tried- dictatorship and starvation." Assuming you have a job, can you explain to me how you drove to work today? Did you do it on your own privately owned road? Hey how about we privatize firefighters, if your house is on fire you just pay them directly to put it out. Nothing but good outcomes from that right? And we should also get rid of medicare, all those old people leeching off the government should pay for their own healthcare (even if they're too old and feeble to work). Again this is just a low IQ argument. "Again, the average person knows it is not a good idea to give total power to the government- power corrupts" Ok so you don't know what "socialism" actually means. Thanks for confirming that. BTW I'm still waiting for you to cite a valid historian that will back up your "90 million claim" (a question you keep dodging)
|
|
|
Post by Wolverine10005 on Dec 8, 2021 21:45:29 GMT
Nazism, fascism, communism, socialism are big plagues. All four. Not just one or two of them. They did millions and millions and millions of victims. All four. Not just one or two of them.
That said, Mel Gibson is not evil. He's a good person. And he's a fantastic actor and director.
He was drunk when he said those things.
I don't know who Joshua Malina is, and his post looks and feels scary.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Dec 9, 2021 1:18:44 GMT
Nazism, fascism, communism, socialism are big plagues. All four. Not just one or two of them. They did millions and millions and millions of victims. All four. Not just one or two of them.
That said, Mel Gibson is not evil. He's a good person. And he's a fantastic actor and director.
He was drunk when he said those things.
I don't know who Joshua Malina is, and his post looks and feels scary.
Joshua Malina is also an actor, but nowhere as known as Gibson though. He's been in The West Wing, Sports Night, and Scandal. His dislike for Gibson seems to go back quite a few years, recently came across a video of him talking ill about him when those phone calls were leaked to the public.
|
|
lune7000
Junior Member
@lune7000
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 678
|
Post by lune7000 on Dec 9, 2021 3:00:47 GMT
No, it's self evident you don't actually know what the term means. Your crippling stupidity has well demosntrated that. Oh so if they call themselves something it must automatically be true? You mean kinda how like China is currently ruled by the People's "Republic" of China or how Japan is currently ruled by the "Liberal" Democratic Party (a party that is quite right wing and anti-immigration). Do I really need to explain to you why what you said was very low IQ?"Socialism has only one outcome in every nation it has been tried- dictatorship and starvation." Assuming you have a job, can you explain to me how you drove to work today? Did you do it on your own privately owned road? Hey how about we privatize firefighters, if your house is on fire you just pay them directly to put it out. Nothing but good outcomes from that right? And we should also get rid of medicare, all those old people leeching off the government should pay for their own healthcare (even if they're too old and feeble to work). Again this is just a low IQ argument. Does this mean we're not friends anymore???
|
|
|
Post by Vits on Dec 9, 2021 13:27:40 GMT
He was drunk when he said those things. Riiiiiiiight... Because being drunk means that we say things we don't truly feel.
|
|