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Post by Feologild Oakes on Dec 10, 2021 18:11:40 GMT
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Dec 11, 2021 18:56:27 GMT
Interesting video
Two possible ways Germany could have won
1. Absolute US neutrality. Had the US not sent so much as a single belt buckle to Britain or Russia, would that have helped Germany? We didn't sent guns and bombs but Lend Lease materials aided the Allies. US trucks were a big helped to the Red Army in the defense of Leningrad and Moscow. And the US was always hope for the UK and USSR. Churchill always believed 100% that America would enter the war. Might he have sued for peace in 1940 had Roosevelt and Congress maintained a complete hands off policy? A long long shot, Roosevelt counterbalanced the Isolationist movement well.
2. Revolution in the USSR. The video mentions France in 1812 but not Germany in 1917. Germany could have conquered Russia then because of the Revolution(s). The Russian Army had disappeared by the time of the October Revolution, either going home or joining Red/White Guards. There was little to stop them from taking Petrograd and nothing to keep them out of Moscow. But the Germans wanted to wrap things up to deal with the West. Had revolution broke out in the USSR in 1941, the country might have disintegrated and been forced to sue for peace. Another what if, if Hitler had treated the Soviet minorities better, would the Ukrainians, Belorussians, Baltic minorities rose up and joined the Axis? But that just wasn't in his nature. And Stalin had the country under his thumb so tightly by 1941 revolution wound have been difficult.
And, in the end, because of Germany's weak nuclear arms program, they would have got nuked anyway
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Dec 11, 2021 20:49:58 GMT
Germany would have lost no matter what they did, that is the whole point with the video.
Russia was not ready for war in 1914, which is why Germany wanted the war to start in 1914, because they know if the war started in 1916 Russia would be to strong for them.
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Post by truecristian on Dec 13, 2021 11:41:38 GMT
Very much so. General Guderian famously said, “We lost the war the day we captured Kiev and failed to raise the Ukrainian flag over the cathedral.”
Germany (with 85 million ethnic Germans) didn’t have enough power to defeat the Soviet Union. But it was strong enough to beat “Russia” (with its 95 million people.) All they had to do was to treat “Russia” separately from the rest of the Soviet Union (about 95 million people), and tell the others, “our quarrel is with Russia, not with you. It’s your fight too.”
The Germans should have refrained from atrocities in the non-Russian Republics. They should have set free all ethnically non Russian prisoners of war, and allowed them to go home as soon as they had secured the relevant territory. They should have even released ethnic Russian POWs upon their signing “parole” papers promising never to fight again against Germany. These Russians would have to stay in the pro German zone, because they would be hanged as traitors if they ever returned to Russia.
The Germans could have set the non-Russian Soviets against the Russian Soviets, started a civil war in the Soviet Union, and let them fight it out with occasional “intervention” This would have given them access to Ukrainian wheat and minerals, and Transcausian oil. With the non-Russians as allies, there would have been no “supply” problems (except “locally”).
With the other Soviets fighting Russia, Germany would have been strong enough to hold Europe against Britain and the United States. The balance of world power in World War II was held by the 95 million non-Russian Soviets (almost half of them Ukrainian).
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Post by politicidal on Dec 17, 2021 22:19:21 GMT
Very much so. General Guderian famously said, “We lost the war the day we captured Kiev and failed to raise the Ukrainian flag over the cathedral.”
Germany (with 85 million ethnic Germans) didn’t have enough power to defeat the Soviet Union. But it was strong enough to beat “Russia” (with its 95 million people.) All they had to do was to treat “Russia” separately from the rest of the Soviet Union (about 95 million people), and tell the others, “our quarrel is with Russia, not with you. It’s your fight too.”
The Germans should have refrained from atrocities in the non-Russian Republics. They should have set free all ethnically non Russian prisoners of war, and allowed them to go home as soon as they had secured the relevant territory. They should have even released ethnic Russian POWs upon their signing “parole” papers promising never to fight again against Germany. These Russians would have to stay in the pro German zone, because they would be hanged as traitors if they ever returned to Russia.
The Germans could have set the non-Russian Soviets against the Russian Soviets, started a civil war in the Soviet Union, and let them fight it out with occasional “intervention” This would have given them access to Ukrainian wheat and minerals, and Transcausian oil. With the non-Russians as allies, there would have been no “supply” problems (except “locally”).
With the other Soviets fighting Russia, Germany would have been strong enough to hold Europe against Britain and the United States. The balance of world power in World War II was held by the 95 million non-Russian Soviets (almost half of them Ukrainian).
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