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Post by truecristian on Jan 8, 2022 3:01:25 GMT
WHO
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Post by mystery on Jan 8, 2022 13:37:13 GMT
America doesn't deserve to be protected right now. We deserve to be punished. Maybe when people stop being partisan douchebags spewing bile and hatred at their fellow Americans, then perhaps things will improve. Until then, I really don't have much sympathy for this country. What goes around, comes around.
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Post by Stammerhead on Jan 8, 2022 21:46:53 GMT
Superman.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 9, 2022 3:35:09 GMT
America doesn't deserve to be protected right now. We deserve to be punished. Maybe when people stop being partisan douchebags spewing bile and hatred at their fellow Americans, then perhaps things will improve. Until then, I really don't have much sympathy for this country. What goes around, comes around.
That's a stupid opinion.
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Post by mystery on Jan 9, 2022 13:02:31 GMT
America doesn't deserve to be protected right now. We deserve to be punished. Maybe when people stop being partisan douchebags spewing bile and hatred at their fellow Americans, then perhaps things will improve. Until then, I really don't have much sympathy for this country. What goes around, comes around.
That's a stupid opinion.
And that's a stupid response. If you want to have a discussion, then try to post something of substance. As for me, I do believe in something like karma. Before the pandemic, America had become toxic on almost every level, and I honestly thought we deserved an ass whooping. We got it, but unfortunately most people don't seem to be learning anything from it, and they're still acting like spoiled brats. I don't know what it would take to turn this country around. It may be a lost cause at this point.
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Post by truecristian on Jan 9, 2022 20:30:00 GMT
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Post by Sarge on Jan 10, 2022 7:24:10 GMT
Do you think we our destroying our country with our partisan rancor? If so, is any group exempt?
No. I think our most dangerous enemy are the Americans looking for what's wrong in America.
There is a minor TV celebrity, right-wing bent, that I used to follow on Instagram, but he started posting pictures of common people and saying this is what's wrong with America, over and over. It was all really petty stuff. I told him the same thing, that the problem with America is the people looking for what's wrong with America. He got mad and blocked me, lol. Not long after he left the show to "spend more time with family," then came out as anti-covid vax and created a ton of drama, threatening people. I have a suspicion he drank too much Orange kool-aid.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 10, 2022 21:42:00 GMT
No. I think our most dangerous enemy are the Americans looking for what's wrong in America.
There is a minor TV celebrity, right-wing bent, that I used to follow on Instagram, but he started posting pictures of common people and saying this is what's wrong with America, over and over. It was all really petty stuff. I told him the same thing, that the problem with America is the people looking for what's wrong with America. He got mad and blocked me, lol. Not long after he left the show to "spend more time with family," then came out as anti-covid vax and created a ton of drama, threatening people. I have a suspicion he drank too much Orange kool-aid.
And the problem with America is we don’t want to see what is wrong right in front of us. What is wrong is desperately trying to tell us.
I find there are as many problems with America as there are sociopolitical causes.
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Post by mystery on Jan 11, 2022 1:49:28 GMT
And the problem with America is we don’t want to see what is wrong right in front of us. What is wrong is desperately trying to tell us.
I find there are as many problems with America as there are sociopolitical causes.
Are you indicating that those causes created the problems? I've started to see the different identity politics groups like bratty children throwing a fit within a dysfunctional family, raging about favoritism, unfair rules, double standards, not getting enough attention, etc. Everyone's angry and everyone thinks they're the victim, and they're all absolutely convinced that their opponents are the bad guys. Bratty children either need a spanking or a time out. Arguably, we've gotten both.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 11, 2022 8:26:36 GMT
I find there are as many problems with America as there are sociopolitical causes.
Are you indicating that those causes created the problems? I've started to see the different identity politics groups like bratty children throwing a fit within a dysfunctional family, raging about favoritism, unfair rules, double standards, not getting enough attention, etc. Everyone's angry and everyone thinks they're the victim, and they're all absolutely convinced that their opponents are the bad guys. Bratty children either need a spanking or a time out. Arguably, we've gotten both. Radio, television, and social media have made it possible to manipulate the emotions of vast numbers of people, easily and relatively quickly. Like the infamous Russell Hantz said <paraphrasing>, "Once you control how they feel, you control them." Everything from religion, marketing companies, special interest groups, political parties and tribes (because they are not necessarily the same thing), faux grass-roots causes, the military, all use the same techniques to control how you think and feel. It's literally a formula anyone can follow. A big giveaway is if you are part of a tribe that points fingers at a group for which they blame for all their problems, and having strong negative emotions toward that group, you are probably under someone's control. I'm not saying that sociopolitical causes necessarily create problems, obviously we are not a perfect society and still have things to work on, but it's also true that when causes are emotionally driven, no one on the bandwagon has their brain engaged except the driver.
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Post by mystery on Jan 11, 2022 12:23:05 GMT
Are you indicating that those causes created the problems? I've started to see the different identity politics groups like bratty children throwing a fit within a dysfunctional family, raging about favoritism, unfair rules, double standards, not getting enough attention, etc. Everyone's angry and everyone thinks they're the victim, and they're all absolutely convinced that their opponents are the bad guys. Bratty children either need a spanking or a time out. Arguably, we've gotten both. Radio, television, and social media have made it possible to manipulate the emotions of vast numbers of people, easily and relatively quickly. Like the infamous Russell Hantz said <paraphrasing>, "Once you control how they feel, you control them." Everything from religion, marketing companies, special interest groups, political parties and tribes (because they are not necessarily the same thing), faux grass-roots causes, the military, all use the same techniques to control how you think and feel. It's literally a formula anyone can follow. A big giveaway is if you are part of a tribe that points fingers at a group for which they blame for all their problems, and having strong negative emotions toward that group, you are probably under someone's control. I'm not saying that sociopolitical causes necessarily create problems, obviously we are not a perfect society and still have things to work on, but it's also true that when causes are emotionally driven, no one on the bandwagon has their brain engaged except the driver. I agree with that. I haven't watched television since the early 2000's, and I'm not on social media, and I'm not sure when I noticed that the country was changing and becoming increasingly tribalistic. It could have been around 2012-ish but it was very noticeable and very disturbing, like watching the cancer begin to spread across the country. Hate and outrage and victimhood became like a drug for some people. I've always made it a point not to allow my emotions to control me, and to reject hatred. I've been to countries that have been devastated by tribalistic thinking (like Rwanda), and it's just incredibly disturbing to see some of those same sentiments among Americans, essentially seeing the other side is being less than human. If the pandemic didn't help people set aside their differences and band together, then I don't know what will. Even another 9/11 type of attack wouldn't bring the country together at this point. It's just very sobering...
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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on Jan 13, 2022 2:46:29 GMT
Quetzalcoatl
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Post by Sarge on Jan 14, 2022 6:43:38 GMT
Radio, television, and social media have made it possible to manipulate the emotions of vast numbers of people, easily and relatively quickly. Like the infamous Russell Hantz said <paraphrasing>, "Once you control how they feel, you control them." Everything from religion, marketing companies, special interest groups, political parties and tribes (because they are not necessarily the same thing), faux grass-roots causes, the military, all use the same techniques to control how you think and feel. It's literally a formula anyone can follow. A big giveaway is if you are part of a tribe that points fingers at a group for which they blame for all their problems, and having strong negative emotions toward that group, you are probably under someone's control. I'm not saying that sociopolitical causes necessarily create problems, obviously we are not a perfect society and still have things to work on, but it's also true that when causes are emotionally driven, no one on the bandwagon has their brain engaged except the driver. I agree with that. I haven't watched television since the early 2000's, and I'm not on social media, and I'm not sure when I noticed that the country was changing and becoming increasingly tribalistic. It could have been around 2012-ish but it was very noticeable and very disturbing, like watching the cancer begin to spread across the country. Hate and outrage and victimhood became like a drug for some people. I've always made it a point not to allow my emotions to control me, and to reject hatred. I've been to countries that have been devastated by tribalistic thinking (like Rwanda), and it's just incredibly disturbing to see some of those same sentiments among Americans, essentially seeing the other side is being less than human. If the pandemic didn't help people set aside their differences and band together, then I don't know what will. Even another 9/11 type of attack wouldn't bring the country together at this point. It's just very sobering... I think back to the 70s and rarely did anyone in my family talk about politics. A little about Watergate, the usual jokes about politicians. Fast forward to the 2000s when my uncle paid an Iranian student to spread conspiracy theories that Obama was secretly in league with Iran to overthrow the United States. He was so proud of himself, he really believed he was the hero in the story. At least he knew it was a lie, some of his neighbors believed it.
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Post by politicidal on Jan 14, 2022 14:33:03 GMT
The Great Spirit.
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Post by ghostintheshell on Jan 16, 2022 19:59:31 GMT
Cthulhu & The Great Old Ones
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Post by politicidal on Jan 17, 2022 2:33:57 GMT
I forgot, we're a capitalist paradise. So I guess Mammon?
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Post by Sarge on Jan 18, 2022 5:41:05 GMT
I find there are as many problems with America as there are sociopolitical causes.
And nothing had more historical and current sociopolitical and economic impact on the American Way of Life than, and in this order, the Transatlantic Slave Trade; the patroon and plantation systems; the persistence of inequality and human bondage under a new political system that proclaimed All Men are Created Equal; the Civil War; Emancipation; the failure of Reconstruction; Jim Crow as institutionalized inequality based on race; the Civil and Voting Rights Movement; the election of an African American President and the realization by the race of folks least effected by massive this hypocritical inequality that they are losing their hegemony in this geopolitical system. Overshadowing this is the shabby treatment the Native American got from the Great White Father and wave after wave of xenophobia towards immigrants…most of whom were invited here by the capitalists who needed cheap labor for their Yankee factories. Add insult to injury is the general mainstream American response “who cares? Thar was then, this is now. Get over it.” Certainly many other geopolitical factors contribute, but none as deeply embedded in our collective social consciousness and lifestyle that affects everyone of us, whether we are aware of it or not, as you know what.
This is now. It's easy to be angry about the past because you can't change it, so you don't have to do anything except yell at the internet, wallow in self-pity, job done. Fellow anger addicts pat you on the back, and you all log off feeling good about yourselves. The only thing you accomplish is reinforcing the victimhood of people living today, and how is that helping them? It damages their self-esteem and makes them weaker emotionally. Negativity is easy.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 20, 2022 4:49:36 GMT
This is now. It's easy to be angry about the past because you can't change it, so you don't have to do anything except yell at the internet, wallow in self-pity, job done. Fellow anger addicts pat you on the back, and you all log off feeling good about yourselves. The only thing you accomplish is reinforcing the victimhood of people living today, and how is that helping them? It damages their self-esteem and makes them weaker emotionally. Negativity is easy.
Sarge, that’s just not so. And it’s not about changing the past, but the future. And we can’t do that until we reconcile the past.
It's a phrase that sounds good, "reconciling the past," like the phrase, "learning from the past, so we don't repeat the same mistakes," but they are nonsense.
1) It assumes everyone has the same motivations. They won't. 2) It assumes your understanding of the past, the version of history you learned, is the correct one. Not everyone will agree. Even the people who spend their lives studying history, sometimes disagree.
3) It assumes we all have the same values. We don't.
4) It assumes that people will agree with you if they understand your point of view. Not true.
The only thing we learn from the past is strategy, our values come from the present.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 22, 2022 3:35:20 GMT
It's a phrase that sounds good, "reconciling the past," like the phrase, "learning from the past, so we don't repeat the same mistakes," but they are nonsense.
1) It assumes everyone has the same motivations. They won't. 2) It assumes your understanding of the past, the version of history you learned, is the correct one. Not everyone will agree. Even the people who spend their lives studying history, sometimes disagree.
3) It assumes we all have the same values. We don't.
4) It assumes that people will agree with you if they understand your point of view. Not true.
The only thing we learn from the past is strategy, our values come from the present.
If you refuse to engage in dialogue, then what is your next step? That's cute, ... I am engaging in dialogue, by listing the reasons that your requirement to "reconcile the past," isn't something that can happen. You've put up an impassible roadblock to progress by demanding the impossible. If you want a better future, you have to start with a better today. People need to believe in tomorrow, believe it will be better, their lives will be better, our country will be better. They need optimism for their children's future. Neither political tribe is providing that, each is pushing hateful lies to scare people into hating the other tribe and distract from the things we really should be protesting.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 23, 2022 7:11:03 GMT
That's cute, ... I am engaging in dialogue, by listing the reasons that your requirement to "reconcile the past," isn't something that can happen. You've put up an impassible roadblock to progress by demanding the impossible. If you want a better future, you have to start with a better today. People need to believe in tomorrow, believe it will be better, their lives will be better, our country will be better. They need optimism for their children's future. Neither political tribe is providing that, each is pushing hateful lies to scare people into hating the other tribe and distract from the things we really should be protesting. That’s not dialogue because you’ve already decide what can and can’t be said. And it’s not even true. We reconcile our own personal past all the time. Successful marriages are built compromise and reconciliation. There’s absolutely nothing the past can do to prevent the future to be what we collectively want it to be, but it can dictate what the future is if we think the past has already been written in stone. This isn’t about laying blame, but keeping from repeating the same past mistakes. You can say whatever you want to say, dialogue doesn't mean I have to agree with you. How can you reconcile something when all the participants are long dead? You can't. We live in the now. You can't create a better past, but you can create a better now.
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