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Post by ck100 on Feb 21, 2022 7:01:36 GMT
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Feb 22, 2022 9:06:41 GMT
I think the biggest change was to the Emperor herself.
However, unlike the forced Anakin ghost changes in ROTJ, this was seen as a lot more palpatable...
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Feb 24, 2022 23:51:29 GMT
I think the biggest change was to the Emperor herself. However, unlike the forced Anakin ghost changes in ROTJ, this was seen as a lot more palpatable... That change was done in 2004. And it sucked.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2022 15:30:42 GMT
I think the biggest change was to the Emperor herself. However, unlike the forced Anakin ghost changes in ROTJ, this was seen as a lot more palpatable... That was actually a good change. It help connect ESB with ROTJ better since it was the same actor. So, it made sense. Besides, the first Emperor was a woman with a male doing the voiceover. So, it’s not like we are truly undermining someone.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Mar 14, 2022 13:20:24 GMT
I think the biggest change was to the Emperor herself. However, unlike the forced Anakin ghost changes in ROTJ, this was seen as a lot more palpatable... That change was done in 2004. And it sucked. That's kind of weird if true because the above poster is dated 1997 and features Ian McDiarmid. Did they make a retconned poster for the 1997 release? 🤔
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Mar 15, 2022 1:29:31 GMT
That change was done in 2004. And it sucked. That's kind of weird if true because the above poster is dated 1997 and features Ian McDiarmid. Did they make a retconned poster for the 1997 release? 🤔 The poster did have McDiarmid on it even though he wasn't in the film. I remember thinking it odd at the time. But there's no "if" about it. They reshot the scene with McDiarmid while filming Revenge of the Sith. That's why McDiarmid's makeup matches ROTS and not ROTJ. When the original trilogy debuted on DVD in 2004, that's when this particular change appeared.
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Jan El Señor
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Post by Jan El Señor on Mar 15, 2022 1:31:10 GMT
I think the biggest change was to the Emperor herself. However, unlike the forced Anakin ghost changes in ROTJ, this was seen as a lot more palpatable... That was actually a good change. It help connect ESB with ROTJ better since it was the same actor. So, it made sense. Besides, the first Emperor was a woman with a male doing the voiceover. So, it’s not like we are truly undermining someone. Except they just used McDiarmid in his makeup from the prequels, so he doesn't look like he should. Plus, they altered the dialogue, making the scene stupid. With those changes, I prefer the original woman with chimp eyes....
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Post by shinnickneth on Mar 15, 2022 4:04:38 GMT
Except they just used McDiarmid in his makeup from the prequels, so he doesn't look like he should. Plus, they altered the dialogue, making the scene stupid. With those changes, I prefer the original woman with chimp eyes.... Yes, those changed lines gives away the Vader/Luke connection before the duel in Cloud City. I didn't care for that.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Mar 16, 2022 10:58:41 GMT
Except they just used McDiarmid in his makeup from the prequels, so he doesn't look like he should. Plus, they altered the dialogue, making the scene stupid. With those changes, I prefer the original woman with chimp eyes.... Yes, those changed lines gives away the Vader/Luke connection before the duel in Cloud City. I didn't care for that. How so? I remember thinking the wording change was stupid in terms of the prequels as Vader now looks like a chump for not questioning why Palps had told him they were dead. But just from an OT perspective I thought it was still ambiguous as to the Skywalker connection.
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Post by Jan El Señor on Mar 16, 2022 21:56:15 GMT
Yes, those changed lines gives away the Vader/Luke connection before the duel in Cloud City. I didn't care for that. How so? I remember thinking the wording change was stupid in terms of the prequels as Vader now looks like a chump for not questioning why Palps had told him they were dead. But just from an OT perspective I thought it was still ambiguous as to the Skywalker connection. This has to do with Lucas originally planning to change ESB even more for the 2004 release. Initially, he wanted to remove all references to Vader mentioning "Skywalker" until the Emperor scene, so that Palps would be the one to reveal who Vader was actually looking for, hence the altered dialogue. At some point (after the re-imagined Palps scene was shot), that idea was scrapped (but is still present in the junior novelization published at the same time). So, now we have Vader obsessively looking for a Skywalker, and having to to pretended he doesn't know what the Emperor is talking about. All because Lucas was too lazy to fix the scene.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Mar 17, 2022 12:08:03 GMT
So, now we have Vader obsessively looking for a Skywalker, and having to to pretended he doesn't know what the Emperor is talking about. All because Lucas was too lazy to fix the scene. Really this is another example of why it is just best to consider the prequels and the OT in completely separate continuities. You've got Darth not even questioning why the Emperor told him his kids were dead. And furthermore, having now discovered they aren't, he's supposed to just unquestioningly comply with Palps request to kill him! 😂 Having said that you've still got issues just within the OT story - How would Vader have no inkling at all that this Skywalker he's been after is in fact his son until Palps tells him...
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Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Mar 22, 2022 4:12:52 GMT
In the original version, didn't the Emperor -- or the Empress -- and Darth Vader have a conversation about "the son of Skywalker"?
This was before the reveal, and the only connection we knew of between Vader and Skywalker was that Vader killed Anakin Skywalker, from a certain point of view.
So having killed the father, Vader and the Emperor were obsessed with killing the son before he became just as powerful as his father and maybe even more powerful than Vader and the Emperor combined.
Or, Vader and the Emperor, or the Emperor only, wanted to turn the son of Skywalker to the Dark Side because of his inherited Force power before having to resort to killing him.
Even in the later/latest versions, I don't think the Emperor actually refers to the son of Skywalker as Vader's son. He's still just "the son of Skywalker," without us yet being supposed to know that Vader is the senior Skywalker.
I think people are remembering these redone scenes from the perspective of already knowing that Vader is Luke's father.
Sort of a displaced, nonlinear memory.
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Post by mstreepsucks on Mar 23, 2022 17:25:09 GMT
I dislike, the changes in this version.
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Mar 24, 2022 8:21:27 GMT
I think people are remembering these redone scenes from the perspective of already knowing that Vader is Luke's father. I think the rest of what you said is correct and therefore yes, pursuing another Skywalker, related the one we believed he'd already killed would fit that conversation ok - from the viewers perspective. However, from Darth's perspective - given the reveal is made within the same film - it doesn't really make sense he'd be after another Skywalker (i.e. HE knows he's a Skywalker even if we don't) without considering it could be his offspring...
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Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Mar 29, 2022 6:05:10 GMT
I think people are remembering these redone scenes from the perspective of already knowing that Vader is Luke's father. I think the rest of what you said is correct and therefore yes, pursuing another Skywalker, related the one we believed he'd already killed would fit that conversation ok - from the viewers perspective. However, from Darth's perspective - given the reveal is made within the same film - it doesn't really make sense he'd be after another Skywalker (i.e. HE knows he's a Skywalker even if we don't) without considering it could be his offspring...Okay, you got me there. Obviously, Vader and Palpatine not having a conversation about why Palpatine didn't tell Vader he has a son is so that the ultimate reveal isn't given away beforehand to novice viewers then and now and in the future. On the other hand, as Vader tells Luke in Return of the Jedi, "That name no longer has any meaning for me."
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Post by Midi-Chlorian_Count on Mar 30, 2022 10:29:33 GMT
Obviously, Vader and Palpatine not having a conversation about why Palpatine didn't tell Vader he has a son is so that the ultimate reveal isn't given away beforehand to novice viewers then and now and in the future. Yeah true. As I was saying above though, I don't really watch the Prequels as true prequels to the OT anyway, so maybe in my head canon version Palpatine's lie doesn't happen so it doesn't matter anyway. But from a character perspective - if you are going with the PT - it's surely the first thing he would have screamed at Palps - "You told me I killed them!".
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Post by ShadowSouL: Padawan of Yoda on Apr 8, 2022 5:33:31 GMT
Obviously, Vader and Palpatine not having a conversation about why Palpatine didn't tell Vader he has a son is so that the ultimate reveal isn't given away beforehand to novice viewers then and now and in the future. Yeah true. As I was saying above though, I don't really watch the Prequels as true prequels to the OT anyway, so maybe in my head canon version Palpatine's lie doesn't happen so it doesn't matter anyway. But from a character perspective - if you are going with the PT - it's surely the first thing he would have screamed at Palps - "You told me I killed them!". Yes, from a character perspective. Diegetic versus nondiegetic.
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