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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 25, 2022 19:38:37 GMT
Where in the message did it make such comparison? It never specified political affiliation, it stated that politicians and propaganda can manipulate people into hating others which can set the stage for something worse down the road, this was not too far off from the message Carano had written herself in the fall of 2020 encouraging her fans not to let the media make them turn against their loved ones over different beliefs. “Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?” It’s pretty obvious what the post was insinuating. Carano has stated that it was never the intention of equate being conservative to being a Jewish person living in Germany at that period in time. People came to that conclusion because she leans right politically, by comparison, Susan Sarandon shared a similar message recently on her social media but hasn't recieved any sort of backlash because people are drawing the conclusion, she is referring to being liberal against conservatism.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 25, 2022 20:35:40 GMT
An actor not liking conservatives is pretty par for the course. In terms of public backlash, I’m sure how that’s comparable to Gina Carano claiming that being a conservative is like being a Jewish person in Nazi Germany. That was something that generated quite a bit of controversy, and was simply the last straw for Disney, who had repeatedly warned her to dial it down. If you want to argue that Disney fired her for being conservative, just keep in mind that there’s going to be a new Santa Clause show on Disney+ in November starring Tim Allen. Disney cut ties with Gina Carano because they saw her as detrimental to their brand. As I said many months ago, Disney likes to avoid controversy whenever possible. That’s how they operate. "An actor not liking conservatives is pretty par for the course." - And that makes it perfectly fine for someone like a Billy Eichner to say hateful and hurtful things about people who do not agree with him politically publicly? The way you frame this sentence gives the impression that there is some bias in the industry, which is what you are generally arguing against the thought of. Carano did not claim that being a conservative is like being a Jewish person in Nazi Germany, that was never her intention, as she has specified numerous times in interviews post her firing. Personally, as I have stated before, I am of the belief that was not really the final straw, and that Lucasfilm wanted to get rid of her but waited till after the second season of The Mandalorian was finished for the right opportunity to do so, as it follows from interviews Carano has given and what others who worked closely to the production have echoed to varying degrees, to further support the argument, she was not informed by Lucasfilm of her firing before they issued public statement, normally if one is to be fired the employee are told a day or so ahead before official comment is made to the trades. They did not even allow her the opportunity to apologize or clarify, and even if she had, the decision was made. I have already addressed The Santa Clauses that is coming to Disney+ next month - it is a mini-series that is only to last six episodes, and is designed as a passing-of-the-torch story. Beyond this mini-series, Allen doesn't appear to have anything in the works with the Disney company, and as previously stated, the film Lightyear didn't bother to ask him to reprise the role and it felt designed to diminish his impact as the character. From my experience, a lot of folks who don’t agree with people like Bill Eichner politically are folks who hate people like him to begin with. I’m not sure why you think that the people who call LGBT people groomers would care about what Billy Eichner thinks of them. If anything, they view that as validation. Well, if that wasn’t her intention, then she probably shouldn’t have framed it that way to begin with. If they wanted to get rid of her after the second season of their show, I would think they would’ve announced it before her social media post, not after. If Disney didn’t want to continue working with Tim Allen, they wouldn’t even bother bringing him back for a Santa Clause show. As for the Buzz Lightyear movie, that sounds like an unfounded conspiracy theory. They repeatedly explained why they cast Chris Evans in the movie. It had nothing to do with them wanting to phase out Tim Allen.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 25, 2022 20:37:56 GMT
“Jews were beaten in the streets, not by Nazi soldiers but by their neighbors…even by children. Because history is edited, most people today don’t realize that to get to the point where Nazi soldiers could easily round up thousands of Jews, the government first made their own neighbors hate them simply for being Jews. How is that any different from hating someone for their political views?” It’s pretty obvious what the post was insinuating. Carano has stated that it was never the intention of equate being conservative to being a Jewish person living in Germany at that period in time. People came to that conclusion because she leans right politically, by comparison, Susan Sarandon shared a similar message recently on her social media but hasn't recieved any sort of backlash because people are drawing the conclusion, she is referring to being liberal against conservatism. She can state whatever she wants after the fact. It doesn’t mean people have to believe her, especially when she hasn’t exactly dialed back her rhetoric since then.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 25, 2022 21:45:48 GMT
"An actor not liking conservatives is pretty par for the course." - And that makes it perfectly fine for someone like a Billy Eichner to say hateful and hurtful things about people who do not agree with him politically publicly? The way you frame this sentence gives the impression that there is some bias in the industry, which is what you are generally arguing against the thought of. Carano did not claim that being a conservative is like being a Jewish person in Nazi Germany, that was never her intention, as she has specified numerous times in interviews post her firing. Personally, as I have stated before, I am of the belief that was not really the final straw, and that Lucasfilm wanted to get rid of her but waited till after the second season of The Mandalorian was finished for the right opportunity to do so, as it follows from interviews Carano has given and what others who worked closely to the production have echoed to varying degrees, to further support the argument, she was not informed by Lucasfilm of her firing before they issued public statement, normally if one is to be fired the employee are told a day or so ahead before official comment is made to the trades. They did not even allow her the opportunity to apologize or clarify, and even if she had, the decision was made. I have already addressed The Santa Clauses that is coming to Disney+ next month - it is a mini-series that is only to last six episodes, and is designed as a passing-of-the-torch story. Beyond this mini-series, Allen doesn't appear to have anything in the works with the Disney company, and as previously stated, the film Lightyear didn't bother to ask him to reprise the role and it felt designed to diminish his impact as the character. From my experience, a lot of folks who don’t agree with people like Bill Eichner politically are folks who hate people like him to begin with. I’m not sure why you think that the people who call LGBT people groomers would care about what Billy Eichner thinks of them. If anything, they view that as validation. Well, if that wasn’t her intention, then she probably shouldn’t have framed it that way to begin with. If they wanted to get rid of her after the second season of their show, I would think they would’ve announced it before her social media post, not after. If Disney didn’t want to continue working with Tim Allen, they wouldn’t even bother bringing him back for a Santa Clause show. As for the Buzz Lightyear movie, that sounds like an unfounded conspiracy theory. They repeatedly explained why they cast Chris Evans in the movie. It had nothing to do with them wanting to phase out Tim Allen. Trying to justify the harsh things one such as Billy Eichner has said in the past about to those that do not align with his political views isn't really helping your overall argument, if anything, it is presenting cracks in the narrative you are trying to paint in the conversation. You are saying there is no bias but are justifying why there is such. She wasn't trying to frame it that way at all, people misinterpreted the conversation. They were waiting till something she would share that would spark some noise online to give the go-ahead, the second season was still fresh in people's minds in January of 2021. As mentioned, The Santa Clause series is a one-and-done, there are no plans to continue after six episodes. I am not arguing that Disney doesn't want to work with Allen ever again, but I would say that they're probably not as willing as they used to be with hiring him for more content. If they didn't want to phase out Allen with the Toy Story franchise, then why not have a scene with the toy version of Buzz Lightyear, still voiced by Allen, watching the movie with Andy? Doesn't sound like that would have been hard to do. The filmmakers also repeatedly said that the Chris Evans voiced Buzz Lightyear was the genuine article, so no matter what contributions Allen made to the character his version is in continuity terms the cheap imitation. Not only that, but in Toy Story 4, Buzz Lightyear was made into something of a buffoon, a far cry from how he was portrayed in the last two entries in the series.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 25, 2022 21:46:23 GMT
Carano has stated that it was never the intention of equate being conservative to being a Jewish person living in Germany at that period in time. People came to that conclusion because she leans right politically, by comparison, Susan Sarandon shared a similar message recently on her social media but hasn't recieved any sort of backlash because people are drawing the conclusion, she is referring to being liberal against conservatism. She can state whatever she wants after the fact. It doesn’t mean people have to believe her, especially when she hasn’t exactly dialed back her rhetoric since then. Examples of such?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 25, 2022 21:59:48 GMT
From my experience, a lot of folks who don’t agree with people like Bill Eichner politically are folks who hate people like him to begin with. I’m not sure why you think that the people who call LGBT people groomers would care about what Billy Eichner thinks of them. If anything, they view that as validation. Well, if that wasn’t her intention, then she probably shouldn’t have framed it that way to begin with. If they wanted to get rid of her after the second season of their show, I would think they would’ve announced it before her social media post, not after. If Disney didn’t want to continue working with Tim Allen, they wouldn’t even bother bringing him back for a Santa Clause show. As for the Buzz Lightyear movie, that sounds like an unfounded conspiracy theory. They repeatedly explained why they cast Chris Evans in the movie. It had nothing to do with them wanting to phase out Tim Allen. Trying to justify the harsh things one such as Billy Eichner has said in the past about to those that do not align with his political views isn't really helping your overall argument, if anything, it is presenting cracks in the narrative you are trying to paint in the conversation. You are saying there is no bias but are justifying why there is such. She wasn't trying to frame it that way at all, people misinterpreted the conversation. They were waiting till something she would share that would spark some noise online to give the go-ahead, the second season was still fresh in people's minds in January of 2021. As mentioned, The Santa Clause series is a one-and-done, there are no plans to continue after six episodes. I am not arguing that Disney doesn't want to work with Allen ever again, but I would say that they're probably not as willing as they used to be with hiring him for more content. If they didn't want to phase out Allen with the Toy Story franchise, then why not have a scene with the toy version of Buzz Lightyear, still voiced by Allen, watching the movie with Andy? Doesn't sound like that would have been hard to do. The filmmakers also repeatedly said that the Chris Evans voiced Buzz Lightyear was the genuine article, so no matter what contributions Allen made to the character his version is in continuity terms the cheap imitation. Not only that, but in Toy Story 4, Buzz Lightyear was made into something of a buffoon, a far cry from how he was portrayed in the last two entries in the series. I never said that people like Billy Eichner don’t have any bias. I’m saying that Disney doesn’t care about the political views of their talent, as long as they are able to stay out of trouble. That’s always been how they’ve operated. They don’t care about promoting any kind of political cause. They just care about making as much money as possible, while maintaining their image as a wholesome family company. Again, Gina Carano hasn’t exactly dialed down her rhetoric since then. She still actively posts things on social media that are clearly meant to get a rise out of people, and she’s now making movies with companies like The Daily Wire, so it seems fair to say that she’s not particularly interested in clearing the air. We don’t know what the plans are beyond the six episodes that have already been made, but by all accounts, Allen will be the main lead of those six episodes, and Disney allowed him to attend D23 to present the trailer for the show, so it doesn’t seem like he’s become a persona non grata with the company.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 25, 2022 22:00:36 GMT
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 26, 2022 4:55:27 GMT
Trying to justify the harsh things one such as Billy Eichner has said in the past about to those that do not align with his political views isn't really helping your overall argument, if anything, it is presenting cracks in the narrative you are trying to paint in the conversation. You are saying there is no bias but are justifying why there is such. She wasn't trying to frame it that way at all, people misinterpreted the conversation. They were waiting till something she would share that would spark some noise online to give the go-ahead, the second season was still fresh in people's minds in January of 2021. As mentioned, The Santa Clause series is a one-and-done, there are no plans to continue after six episodes. I am not arguing that Disney doesn't want to work with Allen ever again, but I would say that they're probably not as willing as they used to be with hiring him for more content. If they didn't want to phase out Allen with the Toy Story franchise, then why not have a scene with the toy version of Buzz Lightyear, still voiced by Allen, watching the movie with Andy? Doesn't sound like that would have been hard to do. The filmmakers also repeatedly said that the Chris Evans voiced Buzz Lightyear was the genuine article, so no matter what contributions Allen made to the character his version is in continuity terms the cheap imitation. Not only that, but in Toy Story 4, Buzz Lightyear was made into something of a buffoon, a far cry from how he was portrayed in the last two entries in the series. I never said that people like Billy Eichner don’t have any bias. I’m saying that Disney doesn’t care about the political views of their talent, as long as they are able to stay out of trouble. That’s always been how they’ve operated. They don’t care about promoting any kind of political cause. They just care about making as much money as possible, while maintaining their image as a wholesome family company. Again, Gina Carano hasn’t exactly dialed down her rhetoric since then. She still actively posts things on social media that are clearly meant to get a rise out of people, and she’s now making movies with companies like The Daily Wire, so it seems fair to say that she’s not particularly interested in clearing the air. We don’t know what the plans are beyond the six episodes that have already been made, but by all accounts, Allen will be the main lead of those six episodes, and Disney allowed him to attend D23 to present the trailer for the show, so it doesn’t seem like he’s become a persona non grata with the company. I would understand and not continue that part of the argument if you did not try to justify Eichner's statements and why Disney wouldn't view them as problematic, as it stands your argument is rather wishy washy. She was fired and wasn't allowed to clear the air, and even if she had Lucasfilm made it clear they didn't want to work with her anymore and her talent agency dropped her. Companies like The Daily Wire were of the few that still were willing to employ her. The series is a one-and-done, six episode run about Allen's character retiring as Santa Claus, and of course he would be at D23 because he is the lead associated with the franchise the most, it's in the contract, not really an instance of, "oh, we really like you Tim, you know what? You should present this show at D23 this year, what say you?"
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 26, 2022 4:58:58 GMT
She deleted her Twitter account, so the message is no longer visible, but I do recall seeing it sometime go and while personally I would not make such comparison myself, I could see how some would genuinely feel that way about the vaccine mandates and stipulations to where they could make such comparisons in such an extremely darkly comedic fashion.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 26, 2022 17:08:19 GMT
I never said that people like Billy Eichner don’t have any bias. I’m saying that Disney doesn’t care about the political views of their talent, as long as they are able to stay out of trouble. That’s always been how they’ve operated. They don’t care about promoting any kind of political cause. They just care about making as much money as possible, while maintaining their image as a wholesome family company. Again, Gina Carano hasn’t exactly dialed down her rhetoric since then. She still actively posts things on social media that are clearly meant to get a rise out of people, and she’s now making movies with companies like The Daily Wire, so it seems fair to say that she’s not particularly interested in clearing the air. We don’t know what the plans are beyond the six episodes that have already been made, but by all accounts, Allen will be the main lead of those six episodes, and Disney allowed him to attend D23 to present the trailer for the show, so it doesn’t seem like he’s become a persona non grata with the company. I would understand and not continue that part of the argument if you did not try to justify Eichner's statements and why Disney wouldn't view them as problematic, as it stands your argument is rather wishy washy. She was fired and wasn't allowed to clear the air, and even if she had Lucasfilm made it clear they didn't want to work with her anymore and her talent agency dropped her. Companies like The Daily Wire were of the few that still were willing to employ her. The series is a one-and-done, six episode run about Allen's character retiring as Santa Claus, and of course he would be at D23 because he is the lead associated with the franchise the most, it's in the contract, not really an instance of, "oh, we really like you Tim, you know what? You should present this show at D23 this year, what say you?" You’re the one who decided to bring up Billy Eichner in the first place. If you seriously think that the average Trump supporter was “hurt” by what he said, then I’m sorry, but that’s extremely naive. The reason Donald Trump became so popular in the first place was because he’s a shrewd asshole who constantly insults Democrats and people he disagrees with. His base loves that. You really think they care about what some gay Hollywood actor thinks of them? She hasn’t even attempted to clear the air, because she’s still being extremely aggressive and confrontational regarding her views. That’s why The Daily Wire loves her. You’re saying Disney was contractually obligated to invite him to D23 to present the trailer? Do you have proof?
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 26, 2022 18:34:30 GMT
I would understand and not continue that part of the argument if you did not try to justify Eichner's statements and why Disney wouldn't view them as problematic, as it stands your argument is rather wishy washy. She was fired and wasn't allowed to clear the air, and even if she had Lucasfilm made it clear they didn't want to work with her anymore and her talent agency dropped her. Companies like The Daily Wire were of the few that still were willing to employ her. The series is a one-and-done, six episode run about Allen's character retiring as Santa Claus, and of course he would be at D23 because he is the lead associated with the franchise the most, it's in the contract, not really an instance of, "oh, we really like you Tim, you know what? You should present this show at D23 this year, what say you?" You’re the one who decided to bring up Billy Eichner in the first place. If you seriously think that the average Trump supporter was “hurt” by what he said, then I’m sorry, but that’s extremely naive. The reason Donald Trump became so popular in the first place was because he’s a shrewd asshole who constantly insults Democrats and people he disagrees with. His base loves that. You really think they care about what some gay Hollywood actor thinks of them? She hasn’t even attempted to clear the air, because she’s still being extremely aggressive and confrontational regarding her views. That’s why The Daily Wire loves her. You’re saying Disney was contractually obligated to invite him to D23 to present the trailer? Do you have proof? Yes, I brought up Billy Eichner because I feel he is a good example of a person that can say very divisive and genuinely hate fueled statements but face little to no consequences for his words professionally. Eichner has said some pretty hateful things about general conservatives and republicans as well, not just the average supporter of former President of the United States Donald J. Trump. Whether someone in the entertainment industry likes it or not, half of the country leans a different way than they do, and it isn't good form to generalize them negatively to the point where you openly state that you hate them and do not want them to see your content - which is designed for mass commercial appeal. Apparently, some of these people who Eichner has trashed for the last few years cared enough to not want to buy a ticket to see Bros, which flopped big time at the box office, and in reaction to its dismal performance, Eichner, rather than have some time to self-reflect, blamed it on homophobia (forgetting that there have been other gay themed movies that have done well at the box office and earned much acclaim, i.e, Brokeback Mountain). Gina Carano may have said things that rubbed some people the wrong way, but she never once said that if you didn't agree with her politically then you were not welcomed to enjoy the content she has taken part in as an actress or an athlete, nor encouraged people to cut ties with their family and friends over political differences (Which is something Eichner has also done, I would like to point out). Because they fired her and gave her no chance to do so, her co-stars on The Mandalorian such as Bill Burr, Carl Weathers, and Emily Swallow believe the decision to fire her by Disney and the smear campaign in the media following the announcement just proved her point right. Other co-stars such as Katee Sackhoff, Ming-Na Wen, Giancarlo Esposito, and general Star Wars alumni like James Arnold Taylor, Ashley Eckstein, and Matt Lanter are also of the opinion that it was wrong to let her go from the franchise. She has nothing to really lose at this point, so from her point of view why still try to play the mainstream narrative she often clashed with? Assuming she tried do, they wouldn't hire her back, and her former talent agency wants nothing to do with her. Promoting content that you are the lead in is part of contractual agreement.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 26, 2022 19:20:10 GMT
You’re the one who decided to bring up Billy Eichner in the first place. If you seriously think that the average Trump supporter was “hurt” by what he said, then I’m sorry, but that’s extremely naive. The reason Donald Trump became so popular in the first place was because he’s a shrewd asshole who constantly insults Democrats and people he disagrees with. His base loves that. You really think they care about what some gay Hollywood actor thinks of them? She hasn’t even attempted to clear the air, because she’s still being extremely aggressive and confrontational regarding her views. That’s why The Daily Wire loves her. You’re saying Disney was contractually obligated to invite him to D23 to present the trailer? Do you have proof? Yes, I brought up Billy Eichner because I feel he is a good example of a person that can say very divisive and genuinely hate fueled statements but face little to no consequences for his words professionally. Eichner has said some pretty hateful things about general conservatives and republicans as well, not just the average supporter of former President of the United States Donald J. Trump. Whether someone in the entertainment industry likes it or not, half of the country leans a different way than they do, and it isn't good form to generalize them negatively to the point where you openly state that you hate them and do not want them to see your content - which is designed for mass commercial appeal. Apparently, some of these people who Eichner has trashed for the last few years cared enough to not want to buy a ticket to see Bros, which flopped big time at the box office, and in reaction to its dismal performance, Eichner, rather than have some time to self-reflect, blamed it on homophobia (forgetting that there have been other gay themed movies that have done well at the box office and earned much acclaim, i.e, Brokeback Mountain). Gina Carano may have said things that rubbed some people the wrong way, but she never once said that if you didn't agree with her politically then you were not welcomed to enjoy the content she has taken part in as an actress or an athlete, nor encouraged people to cut ties with their family and friends over political differences (Which is something Eichner has also done, I would like to point out). Because they fired her and gave her no chance to do so, her co-stars on The Mandalorian such as Bill Burr, Carl Weathers, and Emily Swallow believe the decision to fire her by Disney and the smear campaign in the media following the announcement just proved her point right. Other co-stars such as Katee Sackhoff, Ming-Na Wen, Giancarlo Esposito, and general Star Wars alumni like James Arnold Taylor, Ashley Eckstein, and Matt Lanter are also of the opinion that it was wrong to let her go from the franchise. She has nothing to really lose at this point, so from her point of view why still try to play the mainstream narrative she often clashed with? Assuming she tried do, they wouldn't hire her back, and her former talent agency wants nothing to do with her. Promoting content that you are the lead in is part of contractual agreement. Bros did not bomb because of some things Billy Eichner said on social media that most people weren’t even aware of. Most people do not care about Billy Eichner’s political views. Half the country disagreeing with his views doesn’t mean Disney is obligated to cut ties with him. Again, they didn’t cut ties with Gina Carano for being conversative. They cut ties with her because they noticed that she was attracting controversy, and decided it would be best for their brand to move on. I never even claimed it was fair. I simply pointed out that this is how Disney does business. They have a very low tolerance for this stuff. You seem so certain that Carano didn’t mean any harm, and that she would’ve explained herself if “given the chance.” To be frank, I don’t really understand why you’d think this. Carano has consistently made it clear that she does not regret expressing any of her spicy political takes. She seems to think she’s some provocative rebel who’s exposing the truth or whatever. This idea that she doesn’t mean to be divisive seems like wishful thinking at best. So, Disney was required to invite him to D23, despite supposedly wanting nothing to do with him? In that case, why did they allow him to come back for the show in the first place? It’s not like they were required to make a Santa Clause revival, and even if they were, there’s no reason they needed to make him the lead of the show. They could’ve done it with without him if they really wanted. They certainly didn’t need to make him an executive producer. For the record, I don’t really understand why you decided to respond to a bunch of comments from back in April. This thread was long dead by that point, and there hasn’t been anything in the news recently about Gina Carano that I’m aware of. It just seems kind of random.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 27, 2022 8:41:51 GMT
Yes, I brought up Billy Eichner because I feel he is a good example of a person that can say very divisive and genuinely hate fueled statements but face little to no consequences for his words professionally. Eichner has said some pretty hateful things about general conservatives and republicans as well, not just the average supporter of former President of the United States Donald J. Trump. Whether someone in the entertainment industry likes it or not, half of the country leans a different way than they do, and it isn't good form to generalize them negatively to the point where you openly state that you hate them and do not want them to see your content - which is designed for mass commercial appeal. Apparently, some of these people who Eichner has trashed for the last few years cared enough to not want to buy a ticket to see Bros, which flopped big time at the box office, and in reaction to its dismal performance, Eichner, rather than have some time to self-reflect, blamed it on homophobia (forgetting that there have been other gay themed movies that have done well at the box office and earned much acclaim, i.e, Brokeback Mountain). Gina Carano may have said things that rubbed some people the wrong way, but she never once said that if you didn't agree with her politically then you were not welcomed to enjoy the content she has taken part in as an actress or an athlete, nor encouraged people to cut ties with their family and friends over political differences (Which is something Eichner has also done, I would like to point out). Because they fired her and gave her no chance to do so, her co-stars on The Mandalorian such as Bill Burr, Carl Weathers, and Emily Swallow believe the decision to fire her by Disney and the smear campaign in the media following the announcement just proved her point right. Other co-stars such as Katee Sackhoff, Ming-Na Wen, Giancarlo Esposito, and general Star Wars alumni like James Arnold Taylor, Ashley Eckstein, and Matt Lanter are also of the opinion that it was wrong to let her go from the franchise. She has nothing to really lose at this point, so from her point of view why still try to play the mainstream narrative she often clashed with? Assuming she tried do, they wouldn't hire her back, and her former talent agency wants nothing to do with her. Promoting content that you are the lead in is part of contractual agreement. Bros did not bomb because of some things Billy Eichner said on social media that most people weren’t even aware of. Most people do not care about Billy Eichner’s political views. Half the country disagreeing with his views doesn’t mean Disney is obligated to cut ties with him. Again, they didn’t cut ties with Gina Carano for being conversative. They cut ties with her because they noticed that she was attracting controversy, and decided it would be best for their brand to move on. I never even claimed it was fair. I simply pointed out that this is how Disney does business. They have a very low tolerance for this stuff. You seem so certain that Carano didn’t mean any harm, and that she would’ve explained herself if “given the chance.” To be frank, I don’t really understand why you’d think this. Carano has consistently made it clear that she does not regret expressing any of her spicy political takes. She seems to think she’s some provocative rebel who’s exposing the truth or whatever. This idea that she doesn’t mean to be divisive seems like wishful thinking at best. So, Disney was required to invite him to D23, despite supposedly wanting nothing to do with him? In that case, why did they allow him to come back for the show in the first place? It’s not like they were required to make a Santa Clause revival, and even if they were, there’s no reason they needed to make him the lead of the show. They could’ve done it with without him if they really wanted. They certainly didn’t need to make him an executive producer. For the record, I don’t really understand why you decided to respond to a bunch of comments from back in April. This thread was long dead by that point, and there hasn’t been anything in the news recently about Gina Carano that I’m aware of. It just seems kind of random. You assume that I made the claim that Bros flopped at the box office was due to Billy Eichner's very divisive and often hate fueled expression of political viewpoints, but that was not the case, if anything I was making the claim that it was a supporting factor as to why, among other things (badly made trailers, too niche of an audience to support a film made on its budget, its star not proven to be a leading man, etc.). Disney is not obligated to cut ties with one Billy Eichner for having views the other half of the country disagree with. The argument that myself and others who feel what happened to Gina Carano was unfair is that companies appear to be selective about what talent they consider to be controversial to the point where they do not want them to represent their company; the complaints one person receives are ignored compared to another. It would be a different story if they were more consistent in their established rules - If Gina Carano was fired for what she was, but someone like a Billy Eichner was also let go from playing Timon in the next Lion King film for expressing a pretty polarizing hot take that pretty much insulted half of the consumer base on the country, then such conversation wouldn't occur every once in a while. To give credit, Disney did let go of Chuck Wendig from writing Star Wars in their reaction towards Brett Kavanaugh being allowed on the Supreme Court in 2018, but it is not that often they decide to lay down the law regardless of political party favoritism with talent, hence the argument for bias made by some. And to clarify, Gina Carano is not actually conservative, she is more independent politically, but does lean right. Because she didn't intend any harm with the message she shared to Instagram, it was to function as reflective historical trivia in light of the polarizing political climate of today (and did not specify which side was having it worse than the others) - that was the clarification she has given in interviews since then, and has stated she was hoping to be allowed to say so and see if the company could gain a better understanding of the matter, but they didn't allow it to occur. To repeat, (1) It is often part of the contract of star and executive producer to promote their product at events, (2) the series is a one-and-done, six episode season of television which is to act as a send-off to Allen's character. And to add to argument, (3) The Santa Clause is a popular series of films made by Disney that is often played on television at Christmas season, this series is designed to play specifically for the holiday season, (4) it will be Allen's last time in the role and with the property, and (5) after this project has wrapped up, there does not appear to be anything else Allen has in the works with the Disney company, that to me suggest unless they wish to do a 5th Toy Story film they may not see a need to hire Allen for anything else in the near future. In summary, I and some others believe Disney's mindset is basically, "ok, let's crank out something related to our popular film series The Santa Clause to make some big viewership numbers on the holidays, let's also make it a send-off for Tim Allen, and after that...We move on. Maybe Toy Story 5, let's think about that, do we need Buzz Lightyear, still? Maybe we can have a different toy version of the character and bring back Chris Evans?" For the record, it doesn't really matter how old a thread is, months old threads are started again all the time and if you felt the discussion had already reached its end point, then the question now comes to be asked why did you respond?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 27, 2022 14:00:42 GMT
Bros did not bomb because of some things Billy Eichner said on social media that most people weren’t even aware of. Most people do not care about Billy Eichner’s political views. Half the country disagreeing with his views doesn’t mean Disney is obligated to cut ties with him. Again, they didn’t cut ties with Gina Carano for being conversative. They cut ties with her because they noticed that she was attracting controversy, and decided it would be best for their brand to move on. I never even claimed it was fair. I simply pointed out that this is how Disney does business. They have a very low tolerance for this stuff. You seem so certain that Carano didn’t mean any harm, and that she would’ve explained herself if “given the chance.” To be frank, I don’t really understand why you’d think this. Carano has consistently made it clear that she does not regret expressing any of her spicy political takes. She seems to think she’s some provocative rebel who’s exposing the truth or whatever. This idea that she doesn’t mean to be divisive seems like wishful thinking at best. So, Disney was required to invite him to D23, despite supposedly wanting nothing to do with him? In that case, why did they allow him to come back for the show in the first place? It’s not like they were required to make a Santa Clause revival, and even if they were, there’s no reason they needed to make him the lead of the show. They could’ve done it with without him if they really wanted. They certainly didn’t need to make him an executive producer. For the record, I don’t really understand why you decided to respond to a bunch of comments from back in April. This thread was long dead by that point, and there hasn’t been anything in the news recently about Gina Carano that I’m aware of. It just seems kind of random. You assume that I made the claim that Bros flopped at the box office was due to Billy Eichner's very divisive and often hate fueled expression of political viewpoints, but that was not the case, if anything I was making the claim that it was a supporting factor as to why, among other things (badly made trailers, too niche of an audience to support a film made on its budget, its star not proven to be a leading man, etc.). Disney is not obligated to cut ties with one Billy Eichner for having views the other half of the country disagree with. The argument that myself and others who feel what happened to Gina Carano was unfair is that companies appear to be selective about what talent they consider to be controversial to the point where they do not want them to represent their company; the complaints one person receives are ignored compared to another. It would be a different story if they were more consistent in their established rules - If Gina Carano was fired for what she was, but someone like a Billy Eichner was also let go from playing Timon in the next Lion King film for expressing a pretty polarizing hot take that pretty much insulted half of the consumer base on the country, then such conversation wouldn't occur every once in a while. To give credit, Disney did let go of Chuck Wendig from writing Star Wars in their reaction towards Brett Kavanaugh being allowed on the Supreme Court in 2018, but it is not that often they decide to lay down the law regardless of political party favoritism with talent, hence the argument for bias made by some. And to clarify, Gina Carano is not actually conservative, she is more independent politically, but does lean right. Because she didn't intend any harm with the message she shared to Instagram, it was to function as reflective historical trivia in light of the polarizing political climate of today (and did not specify which side was having it worse than the others) - that was the clarification she has given in interviews since then, and has stated she was hoping to be allowed to say so and see if the company could gain a better understanding of the matter, but they didn't allow it to occur. To repeat, (1) It is often part of the contract of star and executive producer to promote their product at events, (2) the series is a one-and-done, six episode season of television which is to act as a send-off to Allen's character. And to add to argument, (3) The Santa Clause is a popular series of films made by Disney that is often played on television at Christmas season, this series is designed to play specifically for the holiday season, (4) it will be Allen's last time in the role and with the property, and (5) after this project has wrapped up, there does not appear to be anything else Allen has in the works with the Disney company, that to me suggest unless they wish to do a 5th Toy Story film they may not see a need to hire Allen for anything else in the near future. In summary, I and some others believe Disney's mindset is basically, "ok, let's crank out something related to our popular film series The Santa Clause to make some big viewership numbers on the holidays, let's also make it a send-off for Tim Allen, and after that...We move on. Maybe Toy Story 5, let's think about that, do we need Buzz Lightyear, still? Maybe we can have a different toy version of the character and bring back Chris Evans?" For the record, it doesn't really matter how old a thread is, months old threads are started again all the time and if you felt the discussion had already reached its end point, then the question now comes to be asked why did you respond? How is Gina Carano not conservative? She consistently expresses conservative viewpoints, and even starred in some silly movie about Hunter Biden’s laptop. She most definitely is conservative, which, again, is not the reason Disney cut ties with her. Once more, I never even said that I think it’s fair that Disney cut ties with her. I was simply explaining why they did what they did. Take it up with them. Drawing comparisons between how conservatives are supposedly treated today to how Jewish people were treated in Nazi Germany is most definitely meant to be a spicy political take, as was her comparing vaccine mandates to Harvey Weinstein. She also made it clear that she doesn’t care to apologize for this stuff, nor does she regret it. She’s a provocateur. Plain and simple. It’s ridiculous to claim that she just wants everyone to get along. Again, even if Disney felt they absolutely had to bring back Santa Clause, they weren’t required to bring back Tim Allen, especially not in a starring role, nor did they need to make him an executive producer on the show. Tim Allen is part of the Disney Family. If Disney decided they didn’t want him around anymore, they wouldn’t feel the need to bring him back for anything. Making an entire show starring and produced by an actor they supposedly don’t want to work with anymore doesn’t make sense, unless Tim Allen has some kind of dirt on them or something. The thing is, as I said before, there hasn’t been any recent news about Gina Carano (at least not that I’m aware of), so bumping up this thread just to reply to a bunch of comments from back in April comes across as random. You’re obviously free to do what you want. I just don’t get the point of it. As for why I responded, I was one of the people you replied to. You already decided to bring this discussion back, and argued to me about how unfair it is that Billy Eichner is going to be in some Lion King prequel that no one cares about, so I figured I might as well respond.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 27, 2022 20:52:54 GMT
You assume that I made the claim that Bros flopped at the box office was due to Billy Eichner's very divisive and often hate fueled expression of political viewpoints, but that was not the case, if anything I was making the claim that it was a supporting factor as to why, among other things (badly made trailers, too niche of an audience to support a film made on its budget, its star not proven to be a leading man, etc.). Disney is not obligated to cut ties with one Billy Eichner for having views the other half of the country disagree with. The argument that myself and others who feel what happened to Gina Carano was unfair is that companies appear to be selective about what talent they consider to be controversial to the point where they do not want them to represent their company; the complaints one person receives are ignored compared to another. It would be a different story if they were more consistent in their established rules - If Gina Carano was fired for what she was, but someone like a Billy Eichner was also let go from playing Timon in the next Lion King film for expressing a pretty polarizing hot take that pretty much insulted half of the consumer base on the country, then such conversation wouldn't occur every once in a while. To give credit, Disney did let go of Chuck Wendig from writing Star Wars in their reaction towards Brett Kavanaugh being allowed on the Supreme Court in 2018, but it is not that often they decide to lay down the law regardless of political party favoritism with talent, hence the argument for bias made by some. And to clarify, Gina Carano is not actually conservative, she is more independent politically, but does lean right. Because she didn't intend any harm with the message she shared to Instagram, it was to function as reflective historical trivia in light of the polarizing political climate of today (and did not specify which side was having it worse than the others) - that was the clarification she has given in interviews since then, and has stated she was hoping to be allowed to say so and see if the company could gain a better understanding of the matter, but they didn't allow it to occur. To repeat, (1) It is often part of the contract of star and executive producer to promote their product at events, (2) the series is a one-and-done, six episode season of television which is to act as a send-off to Allen's character. And to add to argument, (3) The Santa Clause is a popular series of films made by Disney that is often played on television at Christmas season, this series is designed to play specifically for the holiday season, (4) it will be Allen's last time in the role and with the property, and (5) after this project has wrapped up, there does not appear to be anything else Allen has in the works with the Disney company, that to me suggest unless they wish to do a 5th Toy Story film they may not see a need to hire Allen for anything else in the near future. In summary, I and some others believe Disney's mindset is basically, "ok, let's crank out something related to our popular film series The Santa Clause to make some big viewership numbers on the holidays, let's also make it a send-off for Tim Allen, and after that...We move on. Maybe Toy Story 5, let's think about that, do we need Buzz Lightyear, still? Maybe we can have a different toy version of the character and bring back Chris Evans?" For the record, it doesn't really matter how old a thread is, months old threads are started again all the time and if you felt the discussion had already reached its end point, then the question now comes to be asked why did you respond? How is Gina Carano not conservative? She consistently expresses conservative viewpoints, and even starred in some silly movie about Hunter Biden’s laptop. She most definitely is conservative, which, again, is not the reason Disney cut ties with her. Once more, I never even said that I think it’s fair that Disney cut ties with her. I was simply explaining why they did what they did. Take it up with them. Drawing comparisons between how conservatives are supposedly treated today to how Jewish people were treated in Nazi Germany is most definitely meant to be a spicy political take, as was her comparing vaccine mandates to Harvey Weinstein. She also made it clear that she doesn’t care to apologize for this stuff, nor does she regret it. She’s a provocateur. Plain and simple. It’s ridiculous to claim that she just wants everyone to get along. Again, even if Disney felt they absolutely had to bring back Santa Clause, they weren’t required to bring back Tim Allen, especially not in a starring role, nor did they need to make him an executive producer on the show. Tim Allen is part of the Disney Family. If Disney decided they didn’t want him around anymore, they wouldn’t feel the need to bring him back for anything. Making an entire show starring and produced by an actor they supposedly don’t want to work with anymore doesn’t make sense, unless Tim Allen has some kind of dirt on them or something. The thing is, as I said before, there hasn’t been any recent news about Gina Carano (at least not that I’m aware of), so bumping up this thread just to reply to a bunch of comments from back in April comes across as random. You’re obviously free to do what you want. I just don’t get the point of it. As for why I responded, I was one of the people you replied to. You already decided to bring this discussion back, and argued to me about how unfair it is that Billy Eichner is going to be in some Lion King prequel that no one cares about, so I figured I might as well respond. Gina Carano stated in a Q&A on her Instagram that she while she tends to lean right, she is politically an independent. I am aware that the reason why she let go is not based strictly on conservative politics, I, and others, make the argument that you might have a harder time in the industry if you do not tow the party line with what the mainstream talking points are. I also never claimed you felt her firing was fair, I was talking about the generality of it all. We have already been over this in this conversation - she never intended for the message to be interpreted as an illustration of how conservatives have it rough in the country, that was also not at all the intention of the content originator she shared it from. Comparing vaccine mandates to Harvey Weinstein was dark humor, I think it is a bit extreme to go that far, but apparently plenty of people that it was fair to do so I suppose. Clarifying and apologizing are two different things - clarifying means you want to explain things better, apologizing means to acknowledge mistake and express regret. Carano has clarified but wasn't allowed to because she was fired and dropped by her talent agency before she could even reach out to have conversation with the company. If they hadn't, the audience wouldn't have had much interest. Allen was the star of the three prior movies and his series Last Man Standing did good numbers and managed to score a few more seasons after its initial cancellation on ABC and resurrection on FOX. I am not arguing they don't like him and don't want to work with him, but do not see a whole lot of use for him after a product as such is finished, the only possibility it sounds like is if they desire more Toy Story content with the toy version of Buzz Lightyear he voiced. You still responded, when you thought it wasn't necessary to keep a months old thread going, your argument that it wasn't necessary to do so probably should have been made in your first response to me here.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Oct 27, 2022 21:42:59 GMT
How is Gina Carano not conservative? She consistently expresses conservative viewpoints, and even starred in some silly movie about Hunter Biden’s laptop. She most definitely is conservative, which, again, is not the reason Disney cut ties with her. Once more, I never even said that I think it’s fair that Disney cut ties with her. I was simply explaining why they did what they did. Take it up with them. Drawing comparisons between how conservatives are supposedly treated today to how Jewish people were treated in Nazi Germany is most definitely meant to be a spicy political take, as was her comparing vaccine mandates to Harvey Weinstein. She also made it clear that she doesn’t care to apologize for this stuff, nor does she regret it. She’s a provocateur. Plain and simple. It’s ridiculous to claim that she just wants everyone to get along. Again, even if Disney felt they absolutely had to bring back Santa Clause, they weren’t required to bring back Tim Allen, especially not in a starring role, nor did they need to make him an executive producer on the show. Tim Allen is part of the Disney Family. If Disney decided they didn’t want him around anymore, they wouldn’t feel the need to bring him back for anything. Making an entire show starring and produced by an actor they supposedly don’t want to work with anymore doesn’t make sense, unless Tim Allen has some kind of dirt on them or something. The thing is, as I said before, there hasn’t been any recent news about Gina Carano (at least not that I’m aware of), so bumping up this thread just to reply to a bunch of comments from back in April comes across as random. You’re obviously free to do what you want. I just don’t get the point of it. As for why I responded, I was one of the people you replied to. You already decided to bring this discussion back, and argued to me about how unfair it is that Billy Eichner is going to be in some Lion King prequel that no one cares about, so I figured I might as well respond. Gina Carano stated in a Q&A on her Instagram that she while she tends to lean right, she is politically an independent. I am aware that the reason why she let go is not based strictly on conservative politics, I, and others, make the argument that you might have a harder time in the industry if you do not tow the party line with what the mainstream talking points are. I also never claimed you felt her firing was fair, I was talking about the generality of it all. We have already been over this in this conversation - she never intended for the message to be interpreted as an illustration of how conservatives have it rough in the country, that was also not at all the intention of the content originator she shared it from. Comparing vaccine mandates to Harvey Weinstein was dark humor, I think it is a bit extreme to go that far, but apparently plenty of people that it was fair to do so I suppose. Clarifying and apologizing are two different things - clarifying means you want to explain things better, apologizing means to acknowledge mistake and express regret. Carano has clarified but wasn't allowed to because she was fired and dropped by her talent agency before she could even reach out to have conversation with the company. If they hadn't, the audience wouldn't have had much interest. Allen was the star of the three prior movies and his series Last Man Standing did good numbers and managed to score a few more seasons after its initial cancellation on ABC and resurrection on FOX. I am not arguing they don't like him and don't want to work with him, but do not see a whole lot of use for him after a product as such is finished, the only possibility it sounds like is if they desire more Toy Story content with the toy version of Buzz Lightyear he voiced. You still responded, when you thought it wasn't necessary to keep a months old thread going, your argument that it wasn't necessary to do so probably should have been made in your first response to me here. From my experience, a lot of the people who claim to be Independents or Libertarians or what have you tend to be firmly on the side of the conservatism, and Carano doesn’t exactly seem like an exception. She also made it clear that she believes the 2020 election was “stolen,” so I wouldn’t classify her as a moderate. If there managed to be four Home Alone movies without Macaulay Culkin, there probably could’ve been a new Santa Clause without Tim Allen, if Disney truly wanted to do that. You are right though that having Tim Allen back in the role does give the mini-series more appeal, but that just goes to show that Disney does still view Tim Allen as a meaningful member of the Disney Family. As for what his future with the company is beyond that, keep in mind that he isn’t exactly a spring chicken. He’s turning 70 next year. How much more work could he feasibly get with a company that’s as obsessed with IP’s as Disney? I did consider mentioning that in my initial response, but at the time, I thought it would come across as overly confrontational. Fair enough though.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 28, 2022 8:25:32 GMT
Gina Carano stated in a Q&A on her Instagram that she while she tends to lean right, she is politically an independent. I am aware that the reason why she let go is not based strictly on conservative politics, I, and others, make the argument that you might have a harder time in the industry if you do not tow the party line with what the mainstream talking points are. I also never claimed you felt her firing was fair, I was talking about the generality of it all. We have already been over this in this conversation - she never intended for the message to be interpreted as an illustration of how conservatives have it rough in the country, that was also not at all the intention of the content originator she shared it from. Comparing vaccine mandates to Harvey Weinstein was dark humor, I think it is a bit extreme to go that far, but apparently plenty of people that it was fair to do so I suppose. Clarifying and apologizing are two different things - clarifying means you want to explain things better, apologizing means to acknowledge mistake and express regret. Carano has clarified but wasn't allowed to because she was fired and dropped by her talent agency before she could even reach out to have conversation with the company. If they hadn't, the audience wouldn't have had much interest. Allen was the star of the three prior movies and his series Last Man Standing did good numbers and managed to score a few more seasons after its initial cancellation on ABC and resurrection on FOX. I am not arguing they don't like him and don't want to work with him, but do not see a whole lot of use for him after a product as such is finished, the only possibility it sounds like is if they desire more Toy Story content with the toy version of Buzz Lightyear he voiced. You still responded, when you thought it wasn't necessary to keep a months old thread going, your argument that it wasn't necessary to do so probably should have been made in your first response to me here. From my experience, a lot of the people who claim to be Independents or Libertarians or what have you tend to be firmly on the side of the conservatism, and Carano doesn’t exactly seem like an exception. She also made it clear that she believes the 2020 election was “stolen,” so I wouldn’t classify her as a moderate. If there managed to be four Home Alone movies without Macaulay Culkin, there probably could’ve been a new Santa Clause without Tim Allen, if Disney truly wanted to do that. You are right though that having Tim Allen back in the role does give the mini-series more appeal, but that just goes to show that Disney does still view Tim Allen as a meaningful member of the Disney Family. As for what his future with the company is beyond that, keep in mind that he isn’t exactly a spring chicken. He’s turning 70 next year. How much more work could he feasibly get with a company that’s as obsessed with IP’s as Disney? I did consider mentioning that in my initial response, but at the time, I thought it would come across as overly confrontational. Fair enough though. Your experience may have led to your generalization, but the woman herself says she politically an independent, and that is closest you will get to an official answer on such matter. Not the best comparison, while Macaulay Culkin was the star of the first two installments of Home Alone, the series went into a different direction afterwards. The third, fifth, and sixth entries were centered on different characters, they tried to bring back Macaulay Culkin's character for the fourth but had to recast due to Culkin's much older age. I don't know about being a 'meaningful member', but they recognize the appeal of the film series which they air constantly during the holidays. I am aware of his age, but other than a possible Toy Story 5 I could only really see Disney wanting to work with Allen again is if they consider making a Home Improvement revival. No, it would have been just fine to have said, or, to just have ignored it, but here we are.
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