|
|
Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 6, 2022 19:42:32 GMT
If she's only your SIL (which isn't really a close relative IMO) and you're not particularly close then you should just say nothing. She's a grown woman and if she wants to make radical changes to her appearance then that's her right. I agree with you about the plastic surgery stuff being pretty off-putting by the way, but why get involved? It isn't as though it's affecting you in any way. If it was your daughter, wife or girlfriend then it'd maybe be different but I'd advise just to keep your thoughts to yourself on this matter. If she continues down this path, then it probably increases the chances of them getting a divorce. They've had trouble for years now. But when women turn themselves into plastic monsters, they're not just ugly, they're embarrassing. She was talking to someone, and her top lip was so bloated that it was hanging down like a dead fish. I did a silent scream and had to turn away before I behaved inappropriately. It was really shocking. From the moment I met her, I always thought she was fake and plastic, and I guess now the outside matches the inside. Scary. My concern would be for her kids. I grew up with a narcissistic mother, and though plastic surgery was not a factor, growing up like that messes with a kid's head. In ways you couldn't imagine. I would express concern to your brother about the kids. She is clearly a lost cause. I know of a psychologist who told her patient, who was the father of a narcissist, that she won't even attempt to treat a narcissist. And if you meet one, the best advice is to run in the other direction.
|
|
|
|
Post by mystery on Aug 7, 2022 1:03:05 GMT
If she continues down this path, then it probably increases the chances of them getting a divorce. They've had trouble for years now. But when women turn themselves into plastic monsters, they're not just ugly, they're embarrassing. She was talking to someone, and her top lip was so bloated that it was hanging down like a dead fish. I did a silent scream and had to turn away before I behaved inappropriately. It was really shocking. From the moment I met her, I always thought she was fake and plastic, and I guess now the outside matches the inside. Scary. My concern would be for her kids. I grew up with a narcissistic mother, and though plastic surgery was not a factor, growing up like that messes with a kid's head. In ways you couldn't imagine. I would express concern to your brother about the kids. She is clearly a lost cause. I know of a psychologist who told her patient, who was the father of a narcissist, that she won't even attempt to treat a narcissist. And if you meet one, the best advice is to run in the other direction. Narcissism causes so many problems both for herself and everyone around her, but she's not getting treatment for it. Maybe like you said, it's essentially untreatable. She is getting therapy for bipolar and alcoholism, last I heard. She's supposedly sober at the moment, but I'm starting to think that her addictive personality just traded booze for plastic. I've always kept my distance from her, just because I knew that she was not a good person. Sometimes I wonder if I should have tried more to help her, but there seems to be zero common ground between us. Our worldviews and character and values are extreme opposites. I don't know. I just hope her kids will find a good anti-role model in her, too, and learn from her mistakes. |
|
|
|
Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 7, 2022 1:20:04 GMT
My concern would be for her kids. I grew up with a narcissistic mother, and though plastic surgery was not a factor, growing up like that messes with a kid's head. In ways you couldn't imagine. I would express concern to your brother about the kids. She is clearly a lost cause. I know of a psychologist who told her patient, who was the father of a narcissist, that she won't even attempt to treat a narcissist. And if you meet one, the best advice is to run in the other direction. Narcissism causes so many problems both for herself and everyone around her, but she's not getting treatment for it. Maybe like you said, it's essentially untreatable. She is getting therapy for bipolar and alcoholism, last I heard. She's supposedly sober at the moment, but I'm starting to think that her addictive personality just traded booze for plastic. I've always kept my distance from her, just because I knew that she was not a good person. Sometimes I wonder if I should have tried more to help her, but there seems to be zero common ground between us. Our worldviews and character and values are extreme opposites. I don't know. I just hope her kids will find a good anti-role model in her, too, and learn from her mistakes. First, there is nothing you could have done, narcissism is what it is, and no amount of logic or reason or compassionate conversation will ever change anything. Second, I hope her kids get some therapy. If I had gotten therapy earlier, maybe my life would have been less miserable. But I did eventually figure it out myself - the therapist would never actually say the word 'narcissism' - but once I did some extended research, I finally came to an acceptance of what happened. Not forgiveness, mind you, but acceptance. It was part of who I am today, and finally I have no further contact with my mother. With that separation has come more perspective, which is good. The danger is that the kids will be so imprinted that they will base their self-esteem on their image that all they are is 'her child'. They will let it define them. Or they will rebel like hell, which can be dangerous. Narcissists always put themselves and their needs or wants before anyone else, so the kids will see themselves as having less value. At least, that's how I felt.
|
|
|
|
Post by mystery on Aug 7, 2022 13:00:01 GMT
Narcissism causes so many problems both for herself and everyone around her, but she's not getting treatment for it. Maybe like you said, it's essentially untreatable. She is getting therapy for bipolar and alcoholism, last I heard. She's supposedly sober at the moment, but I'm starting to think that her addictive personality just traded booze for plastic. I've always kept my distance from her, just because I knew that she was not a good person. Sometimes I wonder if I should have tried more to help her, but there seems to be zero common ground between us. Our worldviews and character and values are extreme opposites. I don't know. I just hope her kids will find a good anti-role model in her, too, and learn from her mistakes. First, there is nothing you could have done, narcissism is what it is, and no amount of logic or reason or compassionate conversation will ever change anything. Second, I hope her kids get some therapy. If I had gotten therapy earlier, maybe my life would have been less miserable. But I did eventually figure it out myself - the therapist would never actually say the word 'narcissism' - but once I did some extended research, I finally came to an acceptance of what happened. Not forgiveness, mind you, but acceptance. It was part of who I am today, and finally I have no further contact with my mother. With that separation has come more perspective, which is good. The danger is that the kids will be so imprinted that they will base their self-esteem on their image that all they are is 'her child'. They will let it define them. Or they will rebel like hell, which can be dangerous. Narcissists always put themselves and their needs or wants before anyone else, so the kids will see themselves as having less value. At least, that's how I felt. I think there are different kinds of narcissism. She has actually been very neglectful of the children, because she only cares about herself. When she was drinking, she'd get passed out drunk while she was supposed to be watching the kids. We almost called Child Protective Services on her, and maybe we should have. My brother tries to be there for them, but he's a co-dependent, and he wants to fix her, although he usually just ends up being her enabler. I'm sure that's why he hasn't tried to stop her from turning herself into a deformed Barbie doll. It's been truly breathtaking to watch her slow descent into the abyss. I keep waiting for her to hit rock bottom, but she just keeps sinking lower and lower. I'm glad that you found your own answers and made peace with your past. It makes life a lot easier if you can try to find wisdom from the pain, rather than just being a victim. I think they call that "post-traumatic growth". My parents are far from perfect, too. My youth was so rough that I've blocked out most of my teen years, and it's like I wasn't even there. Like you, I had to navigate the fallout on my own, and it took a long time. But I also realize that going through those ordeals played a huge role in shaping who I am today. Pain is what gives us depth and strength and wisdom. It's just one of the many paradoxes of life. |
|
|
|
Post by rachelcarson1953 on Aug 7, 2022 18:35:45 GMT
First, there is nothing you could have done, narcissism is what it is, and no amount of logic or reason or compassionate conversation will ever change anything. Second, I hope her kids get some therapy. If I had gotten therapy earlier, maybe my life would have been less miserable. But I did eventually figure it out myself - the therapist would never actually say the word 'narcissism' - but once I did some extended research, I finally came to an acceptance of what happened. Not forgiveness, mind you, but acceptance. It was part of who I am today, and finally I have no further contact with my mother. With that separation has come more perspective, which is good. The danger is that the kids will be so imprinted that they will base their self-esteem on their image that all they are is 'her child'. They will let it define them. Or they will rebel like hell, which can be dangerous. Narcissists always put themselves and their needs or wants before anyone else, so the kids will see themselves as having less value. At least, that's how I felt. I think there are different kinds of narcissism. She has actually been very neglectful of the children, because she only cares about herself. When she was drinking, she'd get passed out drunk while she was supposed to be watching the kids. We almost called Child Protective Services on her, and maybe we should have. My brother tries to be there for them, but he's a co-dependent, and he wants to fix her, although he usually just ends up being her enabler. I'm sure that's why he hasn't tried to stop her from turning herself into a deformed Barbie doll. It's been truly breathtaking to watch her slow descent into the abyss. I keep waiting for her to hit rock bottom, but she just keeps sinking lower and lower. I'm glad that you found your own answers and made peace with your past. It makes life a lot easier if you can try to find wisdom from the pain, rather than just being a victim. I think they call that "post-traumatic growth". My parents are far from perfect, too. My youth was so rough that I've blocked out most of my teen years, and it's like I wasn't even there. Like you, I had to navigate the fallout on my own, and it took a long time. But I also realize that going through those ordeals played a huge role in shaping who I am today. Pain is what gives us depth and strength and wisdom. It's just one of the many paradoxes of life. You are right, there are different kinds of narcissism, one kind neglects the kids, and the other kind dominates and manipulates the kids. I read a book once explaining the difference. But both are damaging. It is sadly interesting that you, too, had a difficult childhood. My late husband had two abusive parents, and he actually was incarcerated for a majority of his years until he was released at age 17, and with the help of a mentor (within the facility) and a high I.Q., he decided he was going to be a productive member of society. He achieved that, not without struggle, and went on to become a corporate planner in the telecommunications industry. I think he and I bonded over our childhood issues and supported each other emotionally because we each understood. He, too, blocked out a great deal of his teen years, but sometimes things would surface. He was one of the most strong-willed people I have ever known, and he willed me to treat my cancer aggressively, and here I am today. Sadly, he was diagnosed with a terminal illness, he hung in for a mere 18 months. The illness was stronger than his will. I miss him every day, and when I have an issue, I think, what would he do? Like you, I also realize that going through those ordeals played a huge role in shaping who I am today. And I am now aware of what I can go on to be, with a clear mind. Best wishes, for you and your brother's kids. You perhaps can help them and be a positive role model for them.
|
|
