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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 31, 2017 5:56:58 GMT
I've done this dance with you before. I criticize something in an MCU movie, then you defend it like it's still the best thing ever. But sure let's give it a shot. Captain America's costume in Avengers. Completely campy and, considering the quality of other costumes we've seen in superhero movies, feels ridiculously outdated. Yes, it was campy, I agree. And before we even saw the suit it was completed explained by Coulson who said he had design influence, and was basing it off of the his trading cards which were themselves based off the "War Bond Salesman" Cap. So it was supposed to have the outdated vibe. It's actually really clever how they had his biggest fan design a suit for him. It really adds to that part of Coulson's character, which adds to the weight of his death later. It's a well intended subtlety. Did you think that was an attempt at a really great cap suit like the one in Civil War and that they missed the mark? I don't see anything to criticize here.
I actually like doing this though. This is a fun conversation. What else do you think was bad? I love discussing different perspectives.
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Post by miike80 on May 31, 2017 6:28:48 GMT
Nothing comes to mind. You might be able to name something, but I can't really think of anything that is particularly wrong, no.
I used this example elsewhere, but it's like having ice cream. It's quite often got some fudge, perhaps some caramel, occasionally some fruit flavors, and sometimes it might even have some sprinkles, but is there anything wrong when there is a bite or two of just vanilla, or is it still pretty good? Because I think it's still pretty good, and it only gets better from their when they add a lot of toppings.
But if you can name something you think is legitimately bad, I'd love to hear it and discuss it a bit.
I've done this dance with you before. I criticize something in an MCU movie, then you defend it like it's still the best thing ever. But sure let's give it a shot. Captain America's costume in Avengers. Completely campy and, considering the quality of other costumes we've seen in superhero movies, feels ridiculously outdated. Seeing flaws in MCU movies doesn't mean i'm a hater, but i'll choose one from the top of my head: the very existence of the Kat Dennings character in Thor movies |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 31, 2017 7:06:33 GMT
I've done this dance with you before. I criticize something in an MCU movie, then you defend it like it's still the best thing ever. But sure let's give it a shot. Captain America's costume in Avengers. Completely campy and, considering the quality of other costumes we've seen in superhero movies, feels ridiculously outdated. Seeing flaws in MCU movies doesn't mean i'm a hater, but i'll choose one from the top of my head: the very existence of the Kat Dennings character in Thor movies Well there's a difference between, you personally didn't like her, and it being a flaw. I quite enjoyed her, it was what they intended to present, and by all accounts it was well executed. A flaw is something they messed up on, didn't account for, or neglected. |
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Post by miike80 on May 31, 2017 7:17:59 GMT
Seeing flaws in MCU movies doesn't mean i'm a hater, but i'll choose one from the top of my head: the very existence of the Kat Dennings character in Thor movies Well there's a difference between, you personally didn't like her, and it being a flaw. I quite enjoyed her, it was what they intended to present, and by all accounts it was well executed. A flaw is something they messed up on, didn't account for, or neglected. I know i'm not the only one that sees her as a pointless, annoying character. Even people that love Thor movies think that. lots of them |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 31, 2017 7:22:16 GMT
Well there's a difference between, you personally didn't like her, and it being a flaw. I quite enjoyed her, it was what they intended to present, and by all accounts it was well executed. A flaw is something they messed up on, didn't account for, or neglected. I know i'm not the only one that sees her as a pointless, annoying character. Even people that love Thor movies think that. lots of them I'm sure they do. That's not the same as a flaw. She's not useful to the plot, but that doesn't make her a useless character. She's there for levity and a different point of view.
If you're only point is that some things won't be liked by 100% of the audience, and therefore those things are flaws, then basically everything is a flaw, which I think is a rather pointless conversation. The point here is that she exists for a defined purpose, she accomplishes that role, and if it's just not your brand of comedy, then fine, I get it, but that doesn't constitute a flaw.
When I talk about flaws, I'm talking about things like structured plot elements of the film where it's clear the scene was not well thought out and/or executed. And example would be tornadocide in MOS. The reason that scene gets made fun of is a direct result of so many elements of the scene being forced together in a manner that makes very little sense. So the dog has to be there to get the dad to go back. The dad has to get stuck in order for it to make sense how the tornado has time to get close. Etc. Every bit of that scene is so transparent as to the writer trying to force his way to the death of Jonathan Kent in a very inorganic way, and that's what a flaw is.
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Post by miike80 on May 31, 2017 7:26:43 GMT
Well, you said she's not useful to the plot  And to have a character for levity in a MCU movie where every character is making jokes( and i'm not complaining about that) is kinda redundant |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 31, 2017 7:35:09 GMT
Well, you said she's not useful to the plot And to have a character for levity in a MCU movie where character is making jokes( and i'm not complaining about that) is kinda redundant Well she did go rescue Selvig and helped set up the spikes, but regardless, it's not always necessary for every character to have a major link to the overall plot. Sometimes it's very needed to just have other characters for you main cast to interact with, like when Darcy shows up at the beginning to introduce some information to Jane. It allows Jane to have a character moment where she's not able to get over Thor while she's on a date, and Darcy's roll is to cutely break her out of that date. She's not supposed to be much more than that, and that's fine. |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on May 31, 2017 10:54:23 GMT
This movie represents artistic BURNOUT above everything. For me this is the paramount point as to why the film seems so stale and mediocre, all other criticisms of this movie seem only secondary to that, and have been discussed to death elsewhere. This was the film that broke my interest in MCU films. But more importantly, it's shocking how much the burnout cloud hangs over the movie itself. It's J. Wedons worst and most uninspired work, all the juvenile joy and swagger of the first one is sucked dry here and has degenerated into stale posing. All including the actors seems exhausted, phoned in and by the numbers. The overloaded formula pieces weigh the film down and do not fit properly. This seems more like the procedural slog you expect from a part 4 or 5 movie, than from a part 2. Exhausted formula porn only the most uncritical fanboy fanatic will be able to truly fall in love with. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 31, 2017 13:02:10 GMT
This movie represents artistic BURNOUT above everything. For me this is the paramount point as to why the film seems so stale and mediocre, all other criticisms of this movie seem only secondary to that, and have been discussed to death elsewhere. This was the film that broke my interest in MCU films. But more importantly, it's shocking how much the burnout cloud hangs over the movie itself. It's J. Wedons worst and most uninspired work, all the juvenile joy and swagger of the first one is sucked dry here and has degenerated into stale posing. All including the actors seems exhausted, phoned in and by the numbers. The overloaded formula pieces weigh the film down and do not fit properly. This seems more like the procedural slog you expect from a part 4 or 5 movie, than from a part 2. Exhausted formula porn only the most uncritical fanboy fanatic will be able to truly fall in love with. lolololol
I couldn't have written a better bunch of negative ass bullshit
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 31, 2017 14:42:28 GMT
I dig Age of Ultron more with every rewatch. I think I was just expecting too much from it. I still wish Ultron had been played more seriously, but the highlights of the movie are interactions among the Avengers. That was one of the first movie's biggest strengths, and it continues here. And I love that the seeds of Civil War are planted here.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 14:44:49 GMT
I like it. It's overstuffed and too jokey, but I like it.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 31, 2017 14:46:21 GMT
I like it. It's overstuffed and too jokey, but I like it. It's perfectly stuffed and has ideal levity. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2017 15:00:17 GMT
I like it. It's overstuffed and too jokey, but I like it. It's perfectly stuffed and has ideal levity. Disagreed. But you think all these movies are perfect, so it's not surprising. |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 31, 2017 15:16:31 GMT
It's perfectly stuffed and has ideal levity. Disagreed. But you think all these movies are perfect, so it's not surprising. Yeah I love the humor and all of the little details they packed into that film. I don't know what's not to like, but I'm glad I do. This is a unique film series in all of cinematic history and it's great to enjoy every detail. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 31, 2017 15:19:32 GMT
It's not that unique. Universal and Toho had shared universes decades before MCU.
I like most of the humor. Unfortunately, everyone seems to have become the same deadpan snarker as Stark. Even the villain. That was a bit too much. But I don't see it as being overstuffed. I feel it did a nice job of balancing the main story arc, while still laying down some groundwork for the future.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 31, 2017 15:27:38 GMT
It's not that unique. Universal and Toho had shared universes decades before MCU. I like most of the humor. Unfortunately, everyone seems to have become the same deadpan snarker as Stark. Even the villain. That was a bit too much. But I don't see it as being overstuffed. I feel it did a nice job of balancing the main story arc, while still laying down some groundwork for the future. On this scale and with this level of intricacy, and with a long term vision from the very beginning, the MCU is pretty unique. |
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Post by Atom(ica) Discord on May 31, 2017 15:43:51 GMT
It's not that unique. Universal and Toho had shared universes decades before MCU. I like most of the humor. Unfortunately, everyone seems to have become the same deadpan snarker as Stark. Even the villain. That was a bit too much. But I don't see it as being overstuffed. I feel it did a nice job of balancing the main story arc, while still laying down some groundwork for the future. , and with a long term vision from the very beginning, the MCU is pretty unique. I'm inclined to agree. People are too quick to dash Marvel's accomplishments as "been there done that" but, somehow everyone is in a rush to replicate their success. Posted today on HR.com: www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/can-universal-create-a-marvel-like-universe-mummy-monster-flicks-1008839SaveSaveSaveSave |
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Post by ArArArchStanton on May 31, 2017 15:54:19 GMT
Oh it's the next level for sure. If somebody wants to say a handful of other films have been related to eachother in the past, sure, ok, but nothing has come close to anything on this scale, and especially not with the intent from the start to make over 20 films leading to a common goal, not to mention the addition of a dozen seasons of television. |
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Post by Skaathar on May 31, 2017 15:55:20 GMT
I've done this dance with you before. I criticize something in an MCU movie, then you defend it like it's still the best thing ever. But sure let's give it a shot. Captain America's costume in Avengers. Completely campy and, considering the quality of other costumes we've seen in superhero movies, feels ridiculously outdated. Yes, it was campy, I agree. And before we even saw the suit it was completed explained by Coulson who said he had design influence, and was basing it off of the his trading cards which were themselves based off the "War Bond Salesman" Cap. So it was supposed to have the outdated vibe. It's actually really clever how they had his biggest fan design a suit for him. It really adds to that part of Coulson's character, which adds to the weight of his death later. It's a well intended subtlety. Did you think that was an attempt at a really great cap suit like the one in Civil War and that they missed the mark? I don't see anything to criticize here.
I actually like doing this though. This is a fun conversation. What else do you think was bad? I love discussing different perspectives.
Like I said, I criticize something in an MCU movie and you will defend it to no end. Cap's costume in Avengers was widely criticized, by critics, fans and general audiences alike. There's really no logical reason why his modern-day suit in Avengers would be campier and look more outdated than his suit in CATFA. It's just plain bad costume design, something that MCU fixed in the next installments of Cap. One of MCU's strongest assets is that it learns from its mistakes and actually listens to fans. Does not mean they don't make mistakes. Another one is how Thor, a thousand year old being, learned humility, had a complete change in personality and found the love of his life after only 2 days on Earth. No matter which way you look at it, that's just some very weak writing and logic. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 31, 2017 16:02:28 GMT
I actually liked Cap's costume in Avengers. It was clear they were going for a more comic book inspired look.
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And to have a character for levity in a MCU movie where every character is making jokes( and i'm not complaining about that) is kinda redundant
