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Post by permutojoe on Sept 2, 2022 2:42:40 GMT
What if there is a God and he/she is learning over time? Maybe in the old days he was just getting started. Whispering in people's ears that he was in the cave and folks needed to be good to each other and do their chores or he might do some stuff. Maybe it was just a blob of primordial id for the millions of years of evolution before that then her ego started developing and around the time of Egypt and Babylonia and she started going a little crazy with killing, theft, and genocide. Then a few thousand years later he matured and just wanted folks to worship him or he'd throw them away like a passive aggressive child.
What's God doing now? Maybe she's learned a few things and is trolling us a little. Maybe he's gotten hella smart and is really trolling us, made easier by the electronic age. Maybe it whispers in every single one of our ears, constantly challenging us, not sure about himself, no longer requiring us to bow down but vaguely wanting us to improve on some level.
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gw
Junior Member
@gw
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Post by gw on Sept 2, 2022 3:49:22 GMT
It would explain much. I think that there is a need for universes, or for a less omnipotent God, at least one universe, to have somewhere concrete so that things can interact in a specific way. Otherwise it's like an endless vocabulary of notes without a single page of music.
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Post by general313 on Sept 2, 2022 20:43:19 GMT
Regardless of whether there is a God or not, religion has clearly evolved. The Bible went from "an eye for an eye" to "turn the other cheek", and circumcision and various other prohibitions going from mandatory to no longer relevant as the religion adapted to fitting non-Jews.
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Post by Admin on Sept 2, 2022 23:15:26 GMT
What if there is a God and he/she is learning over time? Given Genesis 6:6, it seems safe to say that he does learn some things along the way.
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strawdawg
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@deborahann
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Post by strawdawg on Sept 4, 2022 15:56:53 GMT
Ditto, I wish we could learn as well.
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Post by gadreel on Sept 5, 2022 23:19:53 GMT
Is god not perfect? Therefore incapable of change.
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Post by permutojoe on Sept 5, 2022 23:43:46 GMT
Is god not perfect? Therefore incapable of change. Some Gods are. Some aren't. It's even possible the real God is claimed to be perfect by his followers but in fact is not.
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Post by Admin on Sept 6, 2022 0:40:22 GMT
Is god not perfect? Therefore incapable of change. Incapable, therefore not omnipotent.
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Post by gadreel on Sept 6, 2022 2:00:27 GMT
Is god not perfect? Therefore incapable of change. Incapable, therefore not omnipotent. depending on how big the rock is
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Post by gadreel on Sept 6, 2022 2:00:59 GMT
Is god not perfect? Therefore incapable of change. Some Gods are. Some aren't. It's even possible the real God is claimed to be perfect by his followers but in fact is not. agreed, I guess the definition of god needs to be firmed up then
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Post by Admin on Sept 6, 2022 3:39:20 GMT
Incapable, therefore not omnipotent. depending on how big the rock is How's that?
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Post by permutojoe on Sept 6, 2022 5:37:43 GMT
Some Gods are. Some aren't. It's even possible the real God is claimed to be perfect by his followers but in fact is not. agreed, I guess the definition of god needs to be firmed up then Actually, perfectness is overrated for a God, or at least hard to define. You could argue that any God is imperfect. The God of the bible changes his mind and so therefore is not perfect. Both Yawheh and Allah have the need to be worshiped and therefore are arguably imperfect, etc. The Hindu "God" apparently has needs too and could be considered imperfect. Defining God is hard to do in general. You could take the easy route and just say it's a higher power, but then you could have aliens from another galaxy come here and effectively meet that definition. It's all very ambiguous.
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Post by Admin on Sept 6, 2022 5:54:03 GMT
agreed, I guess the definition of god needs to be firmed up then Actually, perfectness is overrated for a God, or at least hard to define. You could argue that any God is imperfect. The God of the bible changes his mind and so therefore is not perfect. Both Yawheh and Allah have the need to be worshiped and therefore are arguably imperfect, etc. The Hindu "God" apparently has needs too and could be considered imperfect. Defining God is hard to do in general. You could take the easy route and just say it's a higher power, but then you could have aliens from another galaxy come here and effectively meet that definition. It's all very ambiguous. Worship isn't for God. js
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Post by clusium on Sept 6, 2022 14:20:53 GMT
agreed, I guess the definition of god needs to be firmed up then Actually, perfectness is overrated for a God, or at least hard to define. You could argue that any God is imperfect. The God of the bible changes his mind and so therefore is not perfect. Both Yawheh and Allah have the need to be worshiped and therefore are arguably imperfect, etc. The Hindu "God" apparently has needs too and could be considered imperfect. Defining God is hard to do in general. You could take the easy route and just say it's a higher power, but then you could have aliens from another galaxy come here and effectively meet that definition. It's all very ambiguous. The deities of all religions demand worship from their followers.
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Post by gadreel on Sept 6, 2022 16:55:40 GMT
agreed, I guess the definition of god needs to be firmed up then Actually, perfectness is overrated for a God, or at least hard to define. You could argue that any God is imperfect. The God of the bible changes his mind and so therefore is not perfect. Both Yawheh and Allah have the need to be worshiped and therefore are arguably imperfect, etc. The Hindu "God" apparently has needs too and could be considered imperfect. Defining God is hard to do in general. You could take the easy route and just say it's a higher power, but then you could have aliens from another galaxy come here and effectively meet that definition. It's all very ambiguous. Yeah I guess it also depends on your definition of perfect. It's interesting you note that defining God is hard to do, that is a fundamental tenet of at least some Christian and Jewish belief.
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Post by gadreel on Sept 6, 2022 16:56:04 GMT
depending on how big the rock is How's that? Depending on how you define omnipotence
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Post by Admin on Sept 6, 2022 20:36:40 GMT
Depending on how you define omnipotence I don’t understand. What depends on how I define omnipotence, and is it the same thing on which the size of the rock depends?
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Post by gadreel on Sept 6, 2022 21:15:44 GMT
Depending on how you define omnipotence I don’t understand. What depends on how I define omnipotence, and is it the same thing on which the size of the rock depends? You said "incapable, therefore not omnipotent" I replied "Depending on how big the rock is" referencing the rock thread where I posited that the rock argument is not a question on omnipotence of god at all, but instead a meditation on the definition of omnipotence (i wont rehash my argument, you can read it in the thread) I further clarified, when you expressed confusion, that I was intending my comment to indicate that it depended on how you define omnipotence. I guess I need to spell it out: I said that a perfect God is incapable of change, by which I actually meant that any changes to perfection would mean that the thing in question was not perfect to begin with. You responded with incapable means that god is therefore omnipotent, however that depends on your definition of omnipotent: Omnipotent is bound by the laws that are in place, so therefore as you cannot change something that is perfect and god is perfect god is incapable of change but is still omnipotent or Omnipotence is not bound by any rules, so therefore god can be perfect, change itself and still be perfect, and is therefore omnipotent. Clearly I ascribe to the first view. (this argument clearly also rides on the assumption that you (like I do) think god is perfect, if you do not that is a whole 'nother argument.
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Post by permutojoe on Sept 6, 2022 21:20:40 GMT
Actually, perfectness is overrated for a God, or at least hard to define. You could argue that any God is imperfect. The God of the bible changes his mind and so therefore is not perfect. Both Yawheh and Allah have the need to be worshiped and therefore are arguably imperfect, etc. The Hindu "God" apparently has needs too and could be considered imperfect. Defining God is hard to do in general. You could take the easy route and just say it's a higher power, but then you could have aliens from another galaxy come here and effectively meet that definition. It's all very ambiguous. Yeah I guess it also depends on your definition of perfect. It's interesting you note that defining God is hard to do, that is a fundamental tenet of at least some Christian and Jewish belief. Perfect is very ambiguous also. What would the word even mean in regards to a God? Omnipotent and omniscient would probably be part of it? What else though?
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Post by gadreel on Sept 6, 2022 21:24:29 GMT
Yeah I guess it also depends on your definition of perfect. It's interesting you note that defining God is hard to do, that is a fundamental tenet of at least some Christian and Jewish belief. Perfect is very ambiguous also. What would the word even mean in regards to a God? Omnipotent and omniscient would probably be part of it? What else though? Good point, I was kind of waiting for someone to mention that, the way it is explained in the texts I read is a perfect singularity, ie all as one homogenous thing, one simple and perfect atom if you like, having said that the stuff I read never defines god, but instead gods impact on reality, and at the beginning, god is a simple I AM. God is the one starting point of creation, it may well be much more than that, however all we can ever know is the starting point as that is the only thing within our creation.
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