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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 25, 2022 16:55:58 GMT
Things here have gotten so complicated, with philosophical discussions of the origin of the universe, etc., that I thought just a basic categorization of everyone here might simplify things.
Theist means someone who believes there is a god, higher power, first cause, et al. And it includes every religion, Christianity, Hinduism, Native American belief, and any other recognized religion.
Agnostics maintain that it is not possible to know, based on current empirical evidence, whether or not a god exists, and if it exists, the nature of that god.
Atheist means someone who does not believe there is a god.
(note - I don't know how to fix the typo in the title of the poll)
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 25, 2022 16:59:17 GMT
I indicated 'agnostic'.
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Post by James on Sept 25, 2022 19:20:50 GMT
I guess I line up with agnostic. Sort-of-former Christian. I feel like an omnipotent being is controlling the universe, but it is impossible to confirm such existence even with supposed evidence.
Also that quite some Christian values are outdated and I don't agree with them as such.
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Post by Isapop on Sept 25, 2022 19:31:44 GMT
Things here have gotten so complicated, with philosophical discussions of the origin of the universe, etc., that I thought just a basic categorization of everyone here might simplify things. Theist means someone who believes there is a god, higher power, first cause, et al. And it includes every religion, Christianity, Hinduism, Native American belief, and any other recognized religion. Agnostics maintain that it is not possible to know, based on current empirical evidence, whether or not a god exists, and if it exists, the nature of that god. Atheist means someone who does not believe there is a god. (note - I don't know how to fix the typo in the title of the poll) I think you need to revise your definition of Agnostic because you can be either a Theist or an Atheist and also maintain that it is not possible to KNOW, based on current empirical evidence, whether or not a god exists.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 25, 2022 20:07:27 GMT
Things here have gotten so complicated, with philosophical discussions of the origin of the universe, etc., that I thought just a basic categorization of everyone here might simplify things. Theist means someone who believes there is a god, higher power, first cause, et al. And it includes every religion, Christianity, Hinduism, Native American belief, and any other recognized religion. Agnostics maintain that it is not possible to know, based on current empirical evidence, whether or not a god exists, and if it exists, the nature of that god. Atheist means someone who does not believe there is a god. (note - I don't know how to fix the typo in the title of the poll) I think you need to revise your definition of Agnostic because you can be either a Theist or an Atheist and also maintain that it is not possible to KNOW, based on current empirical evidence, whether or not a god exists. Technically, yes, there are agnostic atheists and agnostic theists. I will see if I can alter the poll.
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Post by Isapop on Sept 25, 2022 20:21:49 GMT
I think you need to revise your definition of Agnostic because you can be either a Theist or an Atheist and also maintain that it is not possible to KNOW, based on current empirical evidence, whether or not a god exists. Technically, yes, there are agnostic atheists and agnostic theists. I will see if I can alter the poll. To reduce things to basics, I would (merely) suggest choosing from the following simple positions: A. God probably exists. B. God probably does not exist. C. God either existing or not are of equal probability.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 25, 2022 20:31:20 GMT
Technically, yes, there are agnostic atheists and agnostic theists. I will see if I can alter the poll. To reduce things to basics, I would (merely) suggest choosing from the following simple positions: A. God probably exists. B. God probably does not exist. C. God either existing or not are of equal probability. Well, sadly, my poor analog brain has been unable to find out how to alter a poll. And, I don't think agnosticism is an equal probability; most agnostic atheists I know, including myself, lean heavily one way or another. Like, "I really don't believe a god exists, but I could be wrong." Sort of a sliver of possibility.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 25, 2022 20:38:38 GMT
I guess I line up with agnostic. Sort-of-former Christian. I feel like an omnipotent being is controlling the universe, but it is impossible to confirm such existence even with supposed evidence. Also that quite some Christian values are outdated and I don't agree with them as such. So, an agnostic theist? The deity doesn't have to be the Christian god. I think some people actually identify as a Deist; and I'm not sure of the exact definition.
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Post by Isapop on Sept 25, 2022 21:39:25 GMT
To reduce things to basics, I would (merely) suggest choosing from the following simple positions: A. God probably exists. B. God probably does not exist. C. God either existing or not are of equal probability. most agnostic atheists I know, including myself, lean heavily one way or another. Like, "I really don't believe a god exists, but I could be wrong." Sort of a sliver of possibility. That would neatly fit into B I'd say. C is for anybody on the fence.
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Post by James on Sept 25, 2022 21:49:51 GMT
I guess I line up with agnostic. Sort-of-former Christian. I feel like an omnipotent being is controlling the universe, but it is impossible to confirm such existence even with supposed evidence. Also that quite some Christian values are outdated and I don't agree with them as such. So, an agnostic theist? The deity doesn't have to be the Christian god. I think some people actually identify as a Deist; and I'm not sure of the exact definition. I suppose. I also feel like our souls must go somewhere after we die, no different than the concept of Heaven and Hell. Must be the indoctrination.
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gw
Junior Member
@gw
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Post by gw on Sept 25, 2022 23:04:28 GMT
I put myself in the 'other' category after some deliberation. We might find out after death if there's an afterlife. And the living may know in the future. Unless it's all powerful, or really exists, I don't know how we would distinguish between a god or merely a powerful being. I'd say that the relative power of a being compared to other beings and the limits of potential determines what we call it. So I narrowly edge myself into the 'other' category instead of agnostic.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 26, 2022 0:46:53 GMT
Things here have gotten so complicated, with philosophical discussions of the origin of the universe, etc., that I thought just a basic categorization of everyone here might simplify things. Theist means someone who believes there is a god, higher power, first cause, et al. And it includes every religion, Christianity, Hinduism, Native American belief, and any other recognized religion. Agnostics maintain that it is not possible to know, based on current empirical evidence, whether or not a god exists, and if it exists, the nature of that god. Atheist means someone who does not believe there is a god. (note - I don't know how to fix the typo in the title of the poll) I think you need to revise your definition of Agnostic because you can be either a Theist or an Atheist and also maintain that it is not possible to KNOW, based on current empirical evidence, whether or not a god exists. This set of definitions is not something I came up with, this has been established in other literature. I don't remember which book I was reading at the time; could have been Hitchens, Sagan, Dawkins or someone else, but I am just quoting these definitions. Edit: found this... The term “agnostic” was coined in 1870 by the biologist, T.H. Huxley (1825-1895). He took the Greek word “a” which means “without” and the Greek word “gnostos” which means “known” to create the word agnostic which has come to mean “the existence of God is unknown and/or unknowable.” He used the word gnostic as a reference to the word “Gnosticism,” a branch of early Christianity which was eventually declared to be heresy by the Orthodox Church. Edit again: Atheism means “the denial of the existence of God or gods. Theism means belief/faith in the existence of God or gods. Agnosticism means either “the belief that there can be no proof either that God exists or that God does not exist” or is the lack of belief “either way”. Source: emilkirkegaard.dk/en/2009/03/atheismtheism-and-agnosticism-definitions/
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 26, 2022 1:21:53 GMT
So, an agnostic theist? The deity doesn't have to be the Christian god. I think some people actually identify as a Deist; and I'm not sure of the exact definition. I suppose. I also feel like our souls must go somewhere after we die, no different than the concept of Heaven and Hell. Must be the indoctrination. I was indoctrinated, too, as a child, and it was very difficult for me to question all that, until I studied comparative religion and the evolution of religion. Once I became familiar with the tenets of other religions, the more it brought Christianity down to an equal level with all the others.
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Post by Marv on Sept 26, 2022 5:57:54 GMT
Atheist and Agnostic. I don’t think they’re exclusive.
But I voted Atheist for semantic reasons.
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 26, 2022 10:11:35 GMT
Apathiest - Not interested in knowing whether god exists or not. Not identifying as atheists because of strong relations of atheists with liberals/leftists (communities I detest). Otherwise technically an atheist because of lack of belief in god.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Sept 26, 2022 14:09:52 GMT
Agnostic
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Post by Isapop on Sept 26, 2022 14:49:03 GMT
Apathiest - Not interested in knowing whether god exists or not. Not identifying as atheists because of strong relations of atheists with liberals/leftists (communities I detest). Otherwise technically an atheist because of lack of belief in god. My vocabulary is expanded today. "Apatheist". I've never run across this word until you laid it before me. Thank you. So naturally, I had to look up some definitions and commentaries on apatheism. One thing that interests me is that while you can certainly be (like you) atheist and apatheist, one can also be theist and apatheist. Some deists fit the bill. Among the commentaries, here's one by a zealous Christian that might amuse you: www.breakpoint.org/breakpoint-beware-of-apatheism/
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Post by gadreel on Sept 26, 2022 16:01:01 GMT
From your definitions I am a Theist and and agnostic, I picked theist to shore up our numbers against you godless heathens
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 26, 2022 16:08:54 GMT
Apathiest - Not interested in knowing whether god exists or not. Not identifying as atheists because of strong relations of atheists with liberals/leftists (communities I detest). Otherwise technically an atheist because of lack of belief in god. My vocabulary is expanded today. "Apatheist". I've never run across this word until you laid it before me. Thank you. So naturally, I had to look up some definitions and commentaries on apatheism. One thing that interests me is that while you can certainly be (like you) atheist and apatheist, one can also be theist and apatheist. Some deists fit the bill. Among the commentaries, here's one by a zealous Christian that might amuse you: www.breakpoint.org/breakpoint-beware-of-apatheism/ I have been aware of AJ's apatheism for some time, but outside of this forum, I had never heard it. The link to the commentaries amused me, for sure! I would lean towards apatheism if it wasn't for Theists trying to make their religious laws into the government's laws. In a country that truly guarantees freedom of religion, I could happily sit back and let others believe whatever they like, if they left me alone. But most Theists must proselytize. I doubt they would like it if us non-believers started proselytizing in the streets and on doorsteps with pamphlets trying to convince them to be atheists. We would probably be drawn and quartered for that.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 26, 2022 16:11:05 GMT
Apathiest - Not interested in knowing whether god exists or not. Not identifying as atheists because of strong relations of atheists with liberals/leftists (communities I detest). Otherwise technically an atheist because of lack of belief in god. Hi, AJ, it's good to hear from you again! Hope you a doing well!
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