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Post by Admin on Oct 23, 2022 19:57:37 GMT
I sink, therefore I swam.
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Post by permutojoe on Oct 23, 2022 20:53:00 GMT
Computers can beat the grand masters at chess 10 out of 10 times. You think that's not thinking? It depends on how you define “thinking”, but for me - no. Like I said, thinking equates to “cognition” to me. This is the ability to conceive of and imagine concepts that one hasn’t been programmed to learn or understand . Computers do not have the element of curiosity or wonder that we equate with human (or even animal) thinking. When a computer demonstrates that it’s capable of pondering life as a computer, or anticipating what it will do with its time in the near or distant future, then I’d be willing to call it a “thinking” agent. This all feels like an exercise in basic metaphysics 101, not to downplay it. It's important to understand and agree to the basics of things when communicating in any form. I would say a person doesn't think about or imagine concepts it hasn't been previously exposed to in some form or fashion either. This is why culture is so important because it sets the parameters for what we're capable of understanding and thinking about. I think you could potentially program an AI to function like this, if it isn't already happening. Same for curiosity, i.e. an eagerness to learn. Wonder otoh usually implies some element of emotion and therefore experience, which would be much more complicated. Could an AI ponder life? Yes. That could potentially happen way before a computer is able to actually experience anything.
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Post by Sarge on Oct 24, 2022 20:44:05 GMT
Philosophy, the pondering of superficial and meaningless questions.
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Post by gadreel on Oct 25, 2022 23:18:31 GMT
Agreed, we are all of the same stuff, we all are one, and yet we are all alone and individual, this is one of the fun paradoxes. My stance in this instance is that I can think of moving or not moving my body indepentantly to the fact of my existence, so therefore my body must not be the essential "I" Ahh yes, it all might be a trick, as long as it seems real we have to act as if it is Maybe alone and individual is just an illusion brought about by culture? Same for the idea that we control our bodies. There are native tribes still in the world today that live on a completely spiritual rather than materialistic plane. I agree the body is not the self btw. Just my 2 cents. Yeah it is an interesting one, on one hand we are all alone, on the other hand we are all the same. I guess in terms of the control my body, I feel as if I control my body and all my senses tell me I do, as with the argument that all reality is a simulation, it may be true, I still have to behave as if this is real, just as I still behave as if I am in command of my body.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Dec 5, 2022 9:06:57 GMT
There's some assumptions here. One is the self, or I. The other is this clumsy idea of is/am/be. What exactly does it mean to exist anyway? There's no answer with any sort of deductive reasoning to it. Something else. Why is it "I think therefore I am" instead of "I experience therefore I am"? Does it matter? Computers think but don't experience anything. I don't think it matters except to say a computer would have to get pretty smart before it came up with cogito ergo sum. Computers compute - they are as yet not self-aware. As for experience, you can't experience anything without thinking. You can bring a corpse with you on holiday, but you will be the only one experiencing anything. So yes: cogito, ergo sum. One's thoughts are the only things one really knows that one possesses, and thoughts are not nothing - therefore existence is implied. This was possibly the only clever thing Descartes ever said.
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Post by general313 on Dec 7, 2022 19:54:43 GMT
There's some assumptions here. One is the self, or I. The other is this clumsy idea of is/am/be. What exactly does it mean to exist anyway? There's no answer with any sort of deductive reasoning to it. Something else. Why is it "I think therefore I am" instead of "I experience therefore I am"? Does it matter? Computers think but don't experience anything. I don't think it matters except to say a computer would have to get pretty smart before it came up with cogito ergo sum. Descartes was attempting to create an axiomatic system for science similar to Euclidean geometry, where 4 or 5 axioms are stated (minimal assumptions to be made, and the rest can be derived by logic in the form of theorems). Descartes intended cogito ergo sum to be the single axiom that science would be based on, with the rest derivable through logic (i.e. pure reason). Kant had different ideas about this.
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