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Post by msdemos on Oct 19, 2022 4:27:12 GMT
If the Nazis could have achieved only ONE goal during WWII, but been denied the other FOREVER (in other words, by choosing one, they lose the opportunity of EVER having the other), which do you think was MORE important to them.....victory in WWII, OR eradication of all Jews from the face of the planet ?? SAVE FERRIS
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Post by clusium on Oct 19, 2022 5:10:25 GMT
If the Nazis could have achieved only ONE goal during WWII, but been denied the other FOREVER (in other words, by choosing one, they lose the opportunity of EVER having the other), which do you think was more important to them.....victory in WWII, OR eradication of all Jews from the face of the planet ?? SAVE FERRIS Going by the obsession over destroying the Jewish people, I would say the latter.
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
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Post by The Lost One on Oct 19, 2022 10:01:34 GMT
My understanding is they essentially needed to win WWII otherwise Germany would be bankrupt - if they couldn't gain the dominance over new resources, markets and labour that victory would give them, their entire society would collapse. So as much as they hated the Jews, I think they would have preferred victory. A lot of their hatred of the Jews is because they saw them as an impediment to Aryan dominance after all.
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Post by Winter_King on Oct 19, 2022 10:27:09 GMT
My understanding is they essentially needed to win WWII otherwise Germany would be bankrupt - if they couldn't gain the dominance over new resources, markets and labour that victory would give them, their entire society would collapse. So as much as they hated the Jews, I think they would have preferred victory. A lot of their hatred of the Jews is because they saw them as an impediment to Aryan dominance after all. I'm not entirely sure because even when Germany was retreating in all fronts, they were still wasting resources in an attempt to exterminate Jews. The Nazis and Hitler hatred for the Jews was counterproductive to the conduct of the war. Especially due to the brain drain they suffered from Jews leaving Germany before things got too heated. Some of these Jews ended up working on the Manhattan project.
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Post by TheGoodMan19 on Oct 19, 2022 23:24:56 GMT
I think it was the eradication of the Jews. If Germany had won WWII, Hitler could have slaughtered the Jews at his leisure. They weren't going anywhere. Had he rounded up the Jews and put them to work in war industries, it would have benefited Germany greatly. Hitler didn't go with the "Final Solution" until January 20th, 1942, nearly the exact moment the war turned. Yes, the Einsatzgruppen did a job of slaughtering Soviet Jews but the Nazi would have been harder pressed to kill them all. I thing Hitler after the failure of the Wehrmacht to take Moscow and the US entry into the war, wanted to kill quickly, just in case
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Post by marsatax on Oct 23, 2022 14:35:46 GMT
Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf:
"If at the beginning of the War [that is, WWI] and during the War twelve or fifteen thousand of these Hebrew corruptors of the people had been held under poison gas, as happened to hundreds of thousands of our very best German workers in the field, the sacrifice of millions at the front would not have been in vain."
So he was saying that even though Germany lost WWI, it would have been okay if a lot of Jews had been gassed. So, presumably, he would have been okay with a German defeat in WWII provided he had succeeded in murdering all the Jews.
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Post by telegonus on Oct 26, 2022 7:39:23 GMT
If the Nazis could have achieved only ONE goal during WWII, but been denied the other FOREVER (in other words, by choosing one, they lose the opportunity of EVER having the other), which do you think was more important to them.....victory in WWII, OR eradication of all Jews from the face of the planet ?? SAVE FERRIS Going by the obsession over destroying the Jewish people, I would say the latter. First off, I don't think you're asking the right questions. Your phrasing seems off to me. For instance, if winning the World War is a primarily European-focused question, I think that this was, long term, within Hitler's grasp. Every little itty bit of the Continent? Likely not. He might have missed or simply chosen to overlook Monaco or one of the Balkan countries; have left Switzerland alone (bad PR, for the Yanks and others). He'd have been wise to have passed on taking charge in Portugal, and to have remained in chronic non-aggression terms with Spain. For Germany to have attacked the UK via invasion, would have upset everyone's balance, even as it would have greatly appeased Japan, making Asia, the Indian sub-continent included, plus much of the southern Pacific region, ripe for the plucking; still, that's not Europe, there are few Jews in those place (so WTF!). I do think that Germany could have pulled off a major victory in the West, but on different terms than they on such a project; more accommodating, willing to make deals, treaties and the like; to have held all potential enemies in check. As to the eradication of all Jews everywhere on the planet, that's an unrealistic goal. Jews are not numerous (outside the relative handful of places where they are), and to kill each and every Jew on planet Earth strikes me as something only a small number of people (including even among non-Nazi Germans) would care to do. Also, Jews are, as a group, clever and highly intelligent; not so easy to eradicate; and it's been tried, albeit in earlier times. What's the point of this anyway? A better case would have to be made than the one Hitler & Company had proposed to compel everybody in the world to want to engage in it. Along these same (or similar) lines, the issue of whether killing all of the world's Jews is worth such an effort raises many perfectly rational, non-pc, not specifically Left or liberal issues, such as the contributions Jewish people have made to, leaving aside religion, philosophy, mathematics, medicine, the arts, inventions and applied science generally. But yes, in theory, I do think elimination of the entire Jewish population is possible. It could happen someday, I suppose. One can't say it could never happen. Unlikely, yes. Impossible, no. I just don't think that the kind of program Hitler put forth could have succeeded, certainly not in the last century. Hitler and his minions put enormous energy into their efforts to do so, and they failed miserably at it.
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Post by Sarge on Oct 27, 2022 2:20:12 GMT
Victory. They didn't kill all the Jews they could have so clearly that wasn't the priority.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Dec 16, 2022 15:27:14 GMT
Hitler had a grandiose idea of the Third Reich, which he meant to last for a thousand years. This meant all of Europe, plus more Lebensraum in the east. Marxism and Bolshevism were the main enemies of the nazis, with Jews a close second. The Final Solution was not formalised until the very end of 1942 - it was the logical culmination of nazi politics, but their first plan was the total eviction of Jews from Europe. In 1940, the Madagascar Plan was formulated, to which Hitler had given his approval. The Final Solution, however, was infinitely more practicable - certainly as Germany now seemed to be losing the war. The failure to defeat Britain meant Germany could not hope to have free reign, and the Madagascar Plan pretty much relied on a successful outcome of the war. With the war fortunes ebbing, at least the nazis could murder as many Jews as possible - even in defeat, at least they would have done that service to the aryan race.
But this was the consolation prize. Their main goal called for victory - genocide was Plan B. Similarly, Hitler would probably not have given the order for the utter destruction of Paris had he won the war - but in defeat, he would see Paris in ruins.
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Post by paulslaugh on Dec 19, 2022 7:14:13 GMT
They tried to get throw out the Jews, but the other European and other nations would not take but a small number of them, including the USA and Great Britain, so I think barring a total victory in WWII, it would be annexing the targeted lebensraum countries to the East.
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Post by paulslaugh on Dec 19, 2022 7:16:49 GMT
Victory. They didn't kill all the Jews they could have so clearly that wasn't the priority. This was an internal purity movement that wasn't a direct part of the war effort. They saw Jews as sick vermin not political rivals.
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