siegfried
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Post by siegfried on Feb 22, 2017 12:23:23 GMT
This isn't a fearmongering thread, i'm genuinely interested if it will happen. The way i see it is that Muslims out breed other faiths in the west, they have multiple wives and a strong family structure. I can easily see in 100-200 years (if not sooner) Europe will be Islamic. But it's not just Mulsims out breeding but also people converting to Islam. I think the Christian churches (mainly Protestant ones) are in massive decline, people aren't happy and are looking to fill their spiritual void, Islam despite its shortcomings is a strong straight forward religion, there's no pussy footing around like Christianity and it'll survive.
Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 12:30:23 GMT
This isn't a fearmongering thread, i'm genuinely interested if it will happen. The way i see it is that Muslims out breed other faiths in the west, they have multiple wives and a strong family structure. I can easily see in 100-200 years (if not sooner) Europe will be Islamic. But it's not just Mulsims out breeding but also people converting to Islam. I think the Christian churches (mainly Protestant ones) are in massive decline, people aren't happy and are looking to fill their spiritual void, Islam despite its shortcomings is a strong straight forward religion, there's no pussy footing around like Christianity and it'll survive. Thoughts? I think that the French population, in particular, has reasons for grave concern, because I believe that the Islamic population there is at 10% or higher, and there seems to be no way of integrating them. They do tend to have a higher birthrate than other populations, and to curb immigration to a certain religious group is still politically unthinkable
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siegfried
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Post by siegfried on Feb 22, 2017 12:40:36 GMT
Exactly they're already in Europe, to deport them would be political suicide so they're here to stay and will only grow. The question is will they have some kind of Reformation like the Christian church did or will our Atheist society rub off on them at all? If not then i think we will become Islamic. Honestly though i'm trying to look at the positive side of it atm, British society has gone down the toilet imo, maybe some good old fashioned morals will make people responsible for their actions? Who knows.
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Post by tickingmask on Feb 22, 2017 12:52:39 GMT
I can easily see in 100-200 years (if not sooner) Europe will be Islamic. Then, if this isn't just fearmongering, you'd need to explain why it hasn't happened before now. Islam has been in existence for around 1400 years and there have been Muslims living in Europe for centuries, so why hasn't Europe become Islamic long ago? What has changed?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 12:55:34 GMT
I can easily see in 100-200 years (if not sooner) Europe will be Islamic. Then, if this isn't just fearmongering, you'd need to explain why it hasn't happened before now. Islam has been in existence for around 1400 years and there have been Muslims living in Europe for centuries, so why hasn't Europe become Islamic long ago? What has changed? They weren't being invited in back then and the western religion of multiculturalism is of relatively recent advent.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 12:57:03 GMT
Exactly they're already in Europe, to deport them would be political suicide so they're here to stay and will only grow. The question is will they have some kind of Reformation like the Christian church did or will our Atheist society rub off on them at all? If not then i think we will become Islamic. Honestly though i'm trying to look at the positive side of it atm, British society has gone down the toilet imo, maybe some good old fashioned morals will make people responsible for their actions? Who knows. Muslims seem to segregate themselves into ghetto to militate against being influenced by secular mores. In fact, there is evidence to suggest that the younger generation of Muslims is actually more religiously conservative than their parents' generation.
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siegfried
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Post by siegfried on Feb 22, 2017 13:01:16 GMT
Very True tickingmask, i'm not fearmongering, just a general discussion. I think since the invention of the contraceptive pill and the increase in womens rights the west has seen a population decline, if this had occured 500 years ago then Islam could've simply done it then. Also it goes without saying women have little rights in Islamic society therefore produce more children. I'm certain this is a simple statistical fact. Also Christianity was much more aggressive in protecting itself, would Europe in the C1500 invited hundreds of thousands of Muslims into its heart? No, the ones in Europe were prevented from getting any further due to wars (Spain, France, Hungry) and eventually the Ottoman Empire. Populations were generally a lot lower back then due to infant death and disease and lack of general medicine.
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Post by tickingmask on Feb 22, 2017 13:02:04 GMT
They weren't being invited in back then and the western religion of multiculturalism is of relatively recent advent. So Islam will take over because people in Europe have become more liberal and tolerant in the relatively recent past than they used to be? Is that what you are saying?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 13:05:14 GMT
They weren't being invited in back then and the western religion of multiculturalism is of relatively recent advent. So Islam will take over because people in Europe have become more liberal and tolerant in the relatively recent past than they used to be? Is that what you are saying? What I mean is that it is no longer politically permissible to resist Islam's brand of religious conservatism, because to advocate for a curb on immigration from Islamic nations would be perceived as racism and be met with a hue and cry. It's also perceived as being racist to criticise any elements of the religion, and to oppose the blasphemy laws which the Muslim community is lobbying the government to introduce. So it is quite plausible that in 10 years time, it will be illegal to criticise the religion of Islam at all in this country. Ed Miliband, as you are probably aware, had promised to introduce an Islamophobia law, had he been elected.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Feb 22, 2017 13:10:16 GMT
Only the legit fortune tellers know for sure.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 22, 2017 13:45:18 GMT
The way i see it is that Muslims out breed other faiths in the west, they have multiple wives Not in the West they don't. Even in Muslim countries, some ban polygyny outright and others heavily restrict it. In still other Muslim countries it is allowed but generally not recommended and relatively uncommon.
The Muslim population of France is 6-9% of the total population, most of them are of former French colonies descent. A small but significant portion of those are converts as opposed to people from a Muslim background. As for their integration (or lack thereof), this is a good article on the subject: www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2014/07/29/are-french-muslims-integrated-depends-on-what-you-mean-by-integration/?utm_term=.4670e50181f3
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Post by lowtacks86 on Feb 22, 2017 14:13:37 GMT
Christian population is shrinking while Islam is increasing, so yes, it will probably eventually become the largest religion in the world.
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Post by thefleetsin on Feb 22, 2017 15:09:36 GMT
This 'spiritual void' rhetoric/nonsense is what generated religions in the first place. When in reality someone had an upset stomach, thought about feeling better, then claimed it was magic that made it so, when they eventually got better.
If you follow history you can see how the voodoos flip-flop over and under each other with each insisting they are the next generation's latest thing.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 22, 2017 22:45:28 GMT
Religious affiliation isn't programmed in our DNA, so one can hardly speak of one religion "out-breeding" another when both exist in the same culture. Besides, even though first generation immigrants tend to have lots more children than ethnic white Westerners, second generation immigrants tend to have fewer children - easily comparable with Western averages.
At any rate, religion is dying. Even if immigrants come from places where religion is still going strong (and this is almost always the case), Western education will take care of that in the long run. Even if, in 100 years from now, Europe is predominately Muslim, European Islam will become more and more secular until it is every bit as washed out as Christianity is. Christianity in North and Western Europe has become radically more secular in just the last 20 years. And though the most liberal Islamic countries are not as liberal as the most liberal Christian countries, they are more liberal than the more conservative Christian countries, and more liberal than any Western country was just 40 years ago. So Islam is getting more and more secular - they are really only one or two steps behind Christianity. Even if Europe is nominally Islamic in 100 years (and I doubt it will come to that - even with the "tsunamis" of Muslim immigrants these past few decades they still barely make up 5% of the European population), it is probably going to be 90+ % atheist.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 22:48:52 GMT
"At any rate, religion is dying. Even if immigrants come from places where religion is still going strong (and this is almost always the case), Western education will take care of that in the long run."
Not if the public espousal of atheism is made illegal (or at the very least, any criticism of Islam under the banner of 'Islamophobia'), as seems to be the game plan for Muslim communities in Europe. Did you know that atheists are deemed to be terrorists in Saudi Arabia?
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Post by Karl Aksel on Feb 22, 2017 22:57:44 GMT
Why is it that when some people think "Islam", they always think of the most backward examples they can think of as a representative? Is it reasonable to use the Christians of present day Cameroon as representative of Christians in general? "At any rate, religion is dying. Even if immigrants come from places where religion is still going strong (and this is almost always the case), Western education will take care of that in the long run." Not if the public espousal of atheism is made illegal (or at the very least, any criticism of Islam under the banner of 'Islamophobia'), as seems to be the game plan for Muslim communities in Europe. Did you know that atheists are deemed to be terrorists in Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia is hardly Western, is it? Did you know that atheism is perfectly legal in Turkey? The only viable scenario in which atheism becomes illegal in the West is if Islam increases to more than 80% of the population - and by that time it is going to be much more liberal than now, and by then you'd only find fringe elements of Islam calling for a ban of atheism. Just like with Christianity today: you do have Christians who would want atheism to be illegal, but they are in a minority. Didn't use to be that way, though. Still, the only thing which could possibly halt the dying of religion is to suppress science. And that is simply not going to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2017 23:04:06 GMT
In the future, it will be the corporations that own everything, including Uncle Bob's Roadside Drive Through Chapel.
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Post by awhina on Feb 23, 2017 1:40:14 GMT
This isn't a fearmongering thread, i'm genuinely interested if it will happen. The way i see it is that Muslims out breed other faiths in the west, they have multiple wives and a strong family structure. I can easily see in 100-200 years (if not sooner) Europe will be Islamic. But it's not just Mulsims out breeding but also people converting to Islam. I think the Christian churches (mainly Protestant ones) are in massive decline, people aren't happy and are looking to fill their spiritual void, Islam despite its shortcomings is a strong straight forward religion, there's no pussy footing around like Christianity and it'll survive. Thoughts? Christianity is being suppressed as hard as possible, but no, Islam will not take over. Both will survive, probably underground - Islam for fear of American bombs, Christianity for fear of imprisonment, job loss and loss of custody of children for alleged "homophobia" and "prejudice".
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Post by progressiveelement on Feb 23, 2017 2:16:00 GMT
This isn't a fearmongering thread, i'm genuinely interested if it will happen. The way i see it is that Muslims out breed other faiths in the west, they have multiple wives and a strong family structure. I can easily see in 100-200 years (if not sooner) Europe will be Islamic. But it's not just Mulsims out breeding but also people converting to Islam. I think the Christian churches (mainly Protestant ones) are in massive decline, people aren't happy and are looking to fill their spiritual void, Islam despite its shortcomings is a strong straight forward religion, there's no pussy footing around like Christianity and it'll survive. Thoughts? Christianity is being suppressed as hard as possible, but no, Islam will not take over. Both will survive, probably underground - Islam for fear of American bombs, Christianity for fear of imprisonment, job loss and loss of custody of children for alleged "homophobia" and "prejudice". Turkey is still technically a US ally. So are Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, the UAE, I believe I pointed this out to you. But you don't know anything outside of your domicile. Oh and the Yanks were supplying Afghans when your peace-loving Russian friends were bombing the country. Come to think of it, you never did complain about Russian bombs on Syria. I bet you never complained about Italian bombs on Iraq either.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2017 4:52:18 GMT
This isn't a fearmongering thread Lol, says they guy using a character from Wagner's Ring Cycle as an avatar.
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