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Post by stryker on Nov 6, 2022 8:44:23 GMT
Let us hope we will see Kevin Spacey back on the screen soon.
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Post by marshamae on Nov 6, 2022 13:04:13 GMT
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Post by marshamae on Nov 6, 2022 15:27:50 GMT
Oh and by the way. The jury did not find that Spacey did not assault Anthony Rapp. They found that Anthony Rapp had no proof. Not remotely the same thing.
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lune7000
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Post by lune7000 on Nov 6, 2022 18:57:30 GMT
We live in an age where accusations w/o evidence destroy people's reputations. For now, the courts aren't bending to the will of the mob and are demanding proof. That will probably change in the future the way things are going. The court found, in this case, that there wasn't enough evidence. That has to be good enough for all of us or the concept of justice has no real meaning.
Ask yourself: what rule would you want the public to follow if you were unfairly accused? The greatest danger isn't that one guilty person goes free, the greatest danger is that we become a society based on accusations and mob mentality.
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Post by marshamae on Nov 6, 2022 19:18:36 GMT
Okay but ask yourself this. Supposing you are a child or a woman who was sexually imposed on by a rich, powerful famous adult. You finally recovered to the point that you could speak up and tell what happened. You go through the horrible process of being questioned, your body is a crime scene, and when you finally make it before a judge and jury, you are told you have no proof. There will be no Justice for you, no redress and your predator will continue his career in the limelight. How would you wish this to go? As a woman who has experienced sexual imposition by bosses, adult relatives etc, I would want to be believed. I would want someone to stand up for me or at least stand with me.
I am troubled by the ability of victims to falsely accuse. But honestly , the predators generally get the sympathy of the court because they are white men being judged by white men. The one common case. Of accused predators being presumed guilty is when they are Black men ( see Emmett Till )
Maybe there is no good answer here but until one appears I am leaning toward believing the victims.
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Post by timshelboy on Nov 6, 2022 20:42:31 GMT
He has three movies completed and due for release - THE MAN WHO DREW GOD with Faye Dunaway and Franco Nero, PETER FIVE EIGHt with Rebecca DeMornay and GORE (Vidal) with Douglas Booth.
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Post by Isapop on Nov 6, 2022 21:25:07 GMT
Maybe there is no good answer here but until one appears I am leaning toward believing the victims. I lean toward believing the victim, too, if it's purely one person's word against the other. But that inclination would have to be put aside if I was on the jury. Even if I believed the victim, I'd need evidence of some kind before I could side with them in a verdict. In the specific case here, if Anthony Rapp, soon after the assault, had made some kind of diary entry or had just confided in confidence to a friend what happened, such testimony years later might have tipped the scale. And in a civil case, the accuser only needs proof better than fifty-fifty.
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Post by politicidal on Nov 6, 2022 21:40:15 GMT
He has three movies completed and due for release - THE MAN WHO DREW GOD with Faye Dunaway and Franco Nero, PETER FIVE EIGHt with Rebecca DeMornay and GORE (Vidal) with Douglas Booth. Was it filmed thirty years ago?!?!
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Post by stryker on Nov 6, 2022 21:45:10 GMT
But honestly , the predators generally get the sympathy of the court because they are white men being judged by white men. Juries are very seldom, if ever, comprised of solely white men in America today marshamae. Thank God the the juries involved where able to see Harvey Weinstein for who he was and see through Amber Heard's lies. PS. Did you watch Spacey's heartfelt testimony on the stand? And did you know that what Rapp accused Spacey of is an actual (verbatim) scene out of a play Rapp was performing in at the time? You should do yourself a favor and watch Johnny Depp on the Stand, and Amber Heard on cross. Who do you think is telling the truth?
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Post by timshelboy on Nov 6, 2022 22:21:25 GMT
He has three movies completed and due for release - THE MAN WHO DREW GOD with Faye Dunaway and Franco Nero, PETER FIVE EIGHt with Rebecca DeMornay and GORE (Vidal) with Douglas Booth. Was it filmed thirty years ago?!?! No -within the last year - it just features very old co-stars (Dunaway a last minute sub for Vanessa Redgrave I think)
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Post by Doghouse6 on Nov 6, 2022 22:46:50 GMT
We live in an age where accusations w/o evidence destroy people's reputations. For now, the courts aren't bending to the will of the mob and are demanding proof. That will probably change in the future the way things are going. The court found, in this case, that there wasn't enough evidence. That has to be good enough for all of us or the concept of justice has no real meaning. Ask yourself: what rule would you want the public to follow if you were unfairly accused? The greatest danger isn't that one guilty person goes free, the greatest danger is that we become a society based on accusations and mob mentality. Very little has changed in 100 years. You're surely aware of Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle, a major star who was charged with manslaughter in 1921. He finally received a measure of justice when he was not only acquitted in 1922 but received a public apology from the jury after having been prosecuted on little more than rumor, innuendo and inference, but it took three criminal trials to achieve that outcome. Even fully vindicated, however, his performing career was destroyed and, for the remaining eleven years of his life, he was able to work only as director and writer of short subjects under the invented name of William B. Goodrich (his own not-so-private play on words: will be good).
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lune7000
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Post by lune7000 on Nov 7, 2022 2:52:52 GMT
We live in an age where accusations w/o evidence destroy people's reputations. For now, the courts aren't bending to the will of the mob and are demanding proof. That will probably change in the future the way things are going. The court found, in this case, that there wasn't enough evidence. That has to be good enough for all of us or the concept of justice has no real meaning. Ask yourself: what rule would you want the public to follow if you were unfairly accused? The greatest danger isn't that one guilty person goes free, the greatest danger is that we become a society based on accusations and mob mentality. Very little has changed in 100 years. You're surely aware of Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle, a major star who was charged with manslaughter in 1921. He finally received a measure of justice when he was not only acquitted in 1922 but received a public apology from the jury after having been prosecuted on little more than rumor, innuendo and inference, but it took three criminal trials to achieve that outcome. Even fully vindicated, however, his performing career was destroyed and, for the remaining eleven years of his life, he was able to work only as director and writer of short subjects under the invented name of William B. Goodrich (his own not-so-private play on words: will be good). Ah yes, Fatty Arbuckle- he might have been the very first of the big stars destroyed by accusations. Buster Keaton saw his personal destruction up close and it seemed to scar him mentally I once read. It seems that a certain type of person is more easily hated by the general public than another- perhaps Arbuckle's weight led to ill feelings by the public. Spacey often played villains/assholes and is easily hated also. Depp was well loved and Heard wasn't. Maybe its all just a popularity contest.
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Post by Isapop on Nov 7, 2022 3:16:44 GMT
It seems that a certain type of person is more easily hated by the general public than another- perhaps Arbuckle's weight led to ill feelings by the public. Spacey often played villains/assholes and is easily hated also. Depp was well loved and Heard wasn't. Maybe its all just a popularity contest. I don't think Spacey's roles were any real factor in the public's estimation of him. It was the fact that many more allegations by others against him were made after Rapp spoke up.
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lune7000
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Post by lune7000 on Nov 7, 2022 4:09:57 GMT
It seems that a certain type of person is more easily hated by the general public than another- perhaps Arbuckle's weight led to ill feelings by the public. Spacey often played villains/assholes and is easily hated also. Depp was well loved and Heard wasn't. Maybe its all just a popularity contest. I don't think Spacey's roles were any real factor in the public's estimation of him. It was the fact that many more allegations by others against him were made after Rapp spoke up. You're surely right about the number of allegations having a biggest effect- but I do believe a person's image prior to that matters also. Image always matters. One of the things that is so disheartening is how people react emotionally to what charges are leveled. In my classes I gave my students two scenarios: and asked them if they believed the accused was guilty: 1. a person is accused of pickpocketing 2. a person is accused of kidnapping a child and molesting them Without fail, my classes held the presumption of innocence in case #1 but demanded punishment for the accused in case # 2 (often the death penalty) even without a trial. Even worse, they continued to hold this view even after I explained the person in #2 could be innocent. The "common man" can be quite scary.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Nov 7, 2022 11:50:30 GMT
Very little has changed in 100 years. You're surely aware of Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle, a major star who was charged with manslaughter in 1921. He finally received a measure of justice when he was not only acquitted in 1922 but received a public apology from the jury after having been prosecuted on little more than rumor, innuendo and inference, but it took three criminal trials to achieve that outcome. Even fully vindicated, however, his performing career was destroyed and, for the remaining eleven years of his life, he was able to work only as director and writer of short subjects under the invented name of William B. Goodrich (his own not-so-private play on words: will be good). Ah yes, Fatty Arbuckle- he might have been the very first of the big stars destroyed by accusations. Buster Keaton saw his personal destruction up close and it seemed to scar him mentally I once read. It seems that a certain type of person is more easily hated by the general public than another- perhaps Arbuckle's weight led to ill feelings by the public. Spacey often played villains/assholes and is easily hated also. Depp was well loved and Heard wasn't. Maybe its all just a popularity contest. The case can be made that the success of pretty much any marquee-level performer depends upon the good graces of the ticket-buying public, but elements of corporate skittishness and bottom-line protection can't be disregarded in instances of scandal. Decisions based upon those factors (and aided by sensationalistic press reportage) have more often than not been made in executive suites and boardrooms before the public has even had an opportunity to vote with their pocketbooks.
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Post by Isapop on Nov 7, 2022 11:57:13 GMT
I don't think Spacey's roles were any real factor in the public's estimation of him. It was the fact that many more allegations by others against him were made after Rapp spoke up. You're surely right about the number of allegations having a biggest effect- but I do believe a person's image prior to that matters also. Image always matters. I would say (but certainly can't prove) that Spacey's image had been a positive one. His appearances on Saturday Night Live and as a fairly regular guest on late night talk shows made audiences think of him as funny, thoughtful, and all around pretty classy. Yes, the emotional reaction to the charge can affect our judgment. But as long as you're not on the jury, having a "personal feeling" that someone is guilty is OK. It's jurors who have to understand that their judgments must be guided by the lawful rules of evidence.
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lune7000
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Post by lune7000 on Nov 7, 2022 15:01:48 GMT
You're surely right about the number of allegations having a biggest effect- but I do believe a person's image prior to that matters also. Image always matters. I would say (but certainly can't prove) that Spacey's image had been a positive one. His appearances on Saturday Night Live and as a fairly regular guest on late night talk shows made audiences think of him as funny, thoughtful, and all around pretty classy. Yes, the emotional reaction to the charge can affect our judgment. But as long as you're not on the jury, having a "personal feeling" that someone is guilty is OK. It's jurors who have to understand that their judgments must be guided by the lawful rules of evidence. Yes, what you say about juries is correct - I was just mentioning the emotional reaction of people to various criminal charges in general- not related to juries (which I have been on) I keep forgetting that a person has to be explicit about everything on a message board or they get misunderstood easily and assumed to say that which they didn't say.
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Post by Isapop on Nov 7, 2022 16:26:52 GMT
I would say (but certainly can't prove) that Spacey's image had been a positive one. His appearances on Saturday Night Live and as a fairly regular guest on late night talk shows made audiences think of him as funny, thoughtful, and all around pretty classy. Yes, the emotional reaction to the charge can affect our judgment. But as long as you're not on the jury, having a "personal feeling" that someone is guilty is OK. It's jurors who have to understand that their judgments must be guided by the lawful rules of evidence. Yes, what you say about juries is correct - I was just mentioning the emotional reaction of people to various criminal charges in general- not related to juries (which I have been on) I keep forgetting that a person has to be explicit about everything on a message board or they get misunderstood easily and assumed to say that which they didn't say. Oh, I don't know. It sounded to me like you were saying that the "common man's" emotional reaction to serious charges is scary because he's more likely to ignore the presumption of innocence. And I'm saying it's not scary unless it's a juror who's ignoring that presumption.
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Post by stryker on Nov 7, 2022 20:27:24 GMT
It seems that a certain type of person is more easily hated by the general public than another- perhaps Arbuckle's weight led to ill feelings by the public. Spacey often played villains/assholes and is easily hated also. Depp was well loved and Heard wasn't. Maybe its all just a popularity contest. I don't think Spacey's roles were any real factor in the public's estimation of him. It sure pissed off a lot people that a famous, two-time Oscar winning actor who was so obviously gay didn't come out publicly. In court, Spacey blamed his father, saying he couldn't come out as gay because of his "Neo-Nazi father's racist, homophobic and anti-semitic views".
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Post by stryker on Nov 7, 2022 20:58:32 GMT
He has three movies completed and due for release - THE MAN WHO DREW GOD with Faye Dunaway and Franco Nero, PETER FIVE EIGHt with Rebecca DeMornay and GORE (Vidal) with Douglas Booth. timshelboy, I know we aren't supposed to mention it in these politically correct times; the age of woke. But what the hell. Have you realized that Amber Heard isn't bisexual, she is a full blown lesbian - factor that in with her control issues, her histrionic and borderline personality disorders and her narcissism? Of course, like I say, we can't talk about this nowadays, but it is an intriguing piece of the puzzle. Imagine if Judy Garland's Vicki Lester was a gorgeous predatory lesbian who wasn't deeply and passionately in love with James Mason's Norman Maine in a A Star is Born and only wanted to use him to make her the superstar she had always dreamed of becoming, and you are half way there. * PS. I think Johnny Depp is getting his mojo back, he's dropped some weight and looking cooler than ever. on stage. Will Hollywood ever allow Depp to make his comeback? Because if he picks the right role, it'll be as big a comeback as Brando in The Godfather, or Travolta in Pulp Fiction? *
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