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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 17:23:06 GMT
They are completely incompatible.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 18:21:53 GMT
Old Testament... There's several gods
New Testament... Only one God
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 18:24:38 GMT
Old Testament... Yahweh will kill hundreds of thousands for the sins of one person.
New Testament... God's mercy is limitless.
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Post by Isapop on Jan 12, 2023 18:30:12 GMT
New Testament... God's mercy is limitless. I wouldn't say that. The NT gives plenty of warnings about rubbing God the wrong way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 18:36:04 GMT
New Testament... God's mercy is limitless. I wouldn't say that. The NT gives plenty of warnings about rubbing God the wrong way. There's a Catholic teaching story about how God's mercy extends to all... At the end of the world, all the good are being gathered in. St Peter thinks all are gathered in, and wants to shut the gates of heaven... But Jesus is still outside the pearly gates... St Peter asks Jesus what he is doing? Jesus says "I'm waiting for Judas"
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Post by Archelaus on Jan 12, 2023 18:40:12 GMT
I disagree. Malachi 3:6 states God never changes. The stories in the Old Testament are about God rewarding the faithful and testing those whose hearts are true. Meanwhile, he judges and punishes those who are evil and perverse in their ways. Most Christians (including myself) would tell you we are living in an age of grace. However, it won't last and the chapter of Revelations tells of a return of God who will exact his final judgment on the Earth.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 19:31:38 GMT
I disagree. Malachi 3:6 states God never changes. The stories in the Old Testament are about God rewarding the faithful and testing those whose hearts are true. Meanwhile, he judges and punishes those who are evil and perverse in their ways. Most Christians (including myself) would tell you we are living in an age of grace. However, it won't last and the chapter of Revelations tells of a return of God who will exact his final judgment on the Earth. The Book of Apocalypse is allegorical, about the end of the Roman Empire... It's already happened.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 12, 2023 20:14:01 GMT
Why? Too drunk?
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Post by Archelaus on Jan 12, 2023 20:57:19 GMT
I disagree. Malachi 3:6 states God never changes. The stories in the Old Testament are about God rewarding the faithful and testing those whose hearts are true. Meanwhile, he judges and punishes those who are evil and perverse in their ways. Most Christians (including myself) would tell you we are living in an age of grace. However, it won't last and the chapter of Revelations tells of a return of God who will exact his final judgment on the Earth. The Book of Apocalypse is allegorical, about the end of the Roman Empire... It's already happened. Nero was most likely seen as the Antichrist for early Christians, and the Western Roman Empire did dissolve into ten nations in 476 AD. However, multiple prophecies contained in the book have not yet been fulfilled. First, there's the Rapture and then the Antichrist inaugurates a seven-year tribulation period. He makes a treaty with Israel, and breaks it midway through. Anything after that has not yet happened.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jan 12, 2023 21:01:48 GMT
When no one replies to his thread, observe as Fr. Jack employs the shameless Goz self-bump.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 12, 2023 21:14:16 GMT
The Book of Apocalypse is allegorical, about the end of the Roman Empire... It's already happened. Nero was most likely seen as the Antichrist for early Christians, and the Western Roman Empire did dissolve into ten nations in 476 AD. However, multiple prophecies contained in the book have not yet been fulfilled. First, there's the Rapture and then the Antichrist inaugurates a seven-year tribulation period. He makes a treaty with Israel, and breaks it midway through. Anything after that has not yet happened. The Rapture line is in Paul’s First Letter to the Thessalonians and Paul never claims to be a prophet.
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Post by Archelaus on Jan 12, 2023 21:44:42 GMT
Nero was most likely seen as the Antichrist for early Christians, and the Western Roman Empire did dissolve into ten nations in 476 AD. However, multiple prophecies contained in the book have not yet been fulfilled. First, there's the Rapture and then the Antichrist inaugurates a seven-year tribulation period. He makes a treaty with Israel, and breaks it midway through. Anything after that has not yet happened. The Rapture line is in Paul’s First Letter to the Thessalonians and Paul never claims to be a prophet. It's related with the timeline of the Christian eschatology. True, Paul was never a prophet, but that doesn't mean he didn't receive divine revelations from God or Jesus Christ same as a prophet. Paul wrote in Galatians 1:21: "I did not receive it [the gospel] from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ."
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 12, 2023 22:21:44 GMT
The Rapture line is in Paul’s First Letter to the Thessalonians and Paul never claims to be a prophet. It's related with the timeline of the Christian eschatology. True, Paul was never a prophet, but that doesn't mean he didn't receive divine revelations from God or Jesus Christ same as a prophet. Paul wrote in Galatians 1:21: "I did not receive it [the gospel] from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." And it does not mean he did. The one line in the entire Bible that’s speaks of a “rapture” is not necessarily Paul being literal. He lived under the expectation that Jesus was returning any day now, just like you…2,000 years later.
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Post by general313 on Jan 12, 2023 22:41:24 GMT
The Rapture line is in Paul’s First Letter to the Thessalonians and Paul never claims to be a prophet. It's related with the timeline of the Christian eschatology. True, Paul was never a prophet, but that doesn't mean he didn't receive divine revelations from God or Jesus Christ same as a prophet. Paul wrote in Galatians 1:21: "I did not receive it [the gospel] from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." Say, isn't that the way that Joseph Smith did it? What a coincidence!
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Post by Archelaus on Jan 12, 2023 23:14:26 GMT
It's related with the timeline of the Christian eschatology. True, Paul was never a prophet, but that doesn't mean he didn't receive divine revelations from God or Jesus Christ same as a prophet. Paul wrote in Galatians 1:21: "I did not receive it [the gospel] from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." And it does not mean he did. The one line in the entire Bible that’s speaks of a “rapture” is not necessarily Paul being literal. He lived under the expectation that Jesus was returning any day now, just like you…2,000 years later. Paul's description of the rapture is nearly identical to Jesus's prophecy in Matthew 24:30-31. The last I checked, Paul's letters to the churches (including the one in Thessalonica) predates any writing of the four canonical Gospels. Either, Paul heard of the prophecy of a rapture from the surviving disciples or he received it from God directly. And yes, Paul likely did anticipate the second coming of Jesus happening in his lifetime, which did not happen. Every generation thinks they are the one that will see the end times. It doesn't mean they will not eventually happen. It's related with the timeline of the Christian eschatology. True, Paul was never a prophet, but that doesn't mean he didn't receive divine revelations from God or Jesus Christ same as a prophet. Paul wrote in Galatians 1:21: "I did not receive it [the gospel] from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ." Say, isn't that the way that Joseph Smith did it? What a coincidence! Yeah, Joseph Smith did claim he received a revelation from God. It's the same as Muhammad's claim of receiving a revelation from the angel Gabriel. This is why Paul writes that one of the spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:10 is to "distinguish among spirits," or have the gift of discernment. The Apostle Titus also writes for Christians to "test the spirits" to know if they are from God.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2023 23:38:23 GMT
"Learn from the Old, live by the New."
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 12, 2023 23:44:42 GMT
And it does not mean he did. The one line in the entire Bible that’s speaks of a “rapture” is not necessarily Paul being literal. He lived under the expectation that Jesus was returning any day now, just like you…2,000 years later. Paul's description of the rapture is nearly identical to Jesus's prophecy in Matthew 24:30-31. The last I checked, Paul's letters to the churches (including the one in Thessalonica) predates any writing of the four canonical Gospels. Either, Paul heard of the prophecy of a rapture from the surviving disciples or he received it from God directly. And yes, Paul likely did anticipate the second coming of Jesus happening in his lifetime, which did not happen. Every generation thinks they are the one that will see the end times. It doesn't mean they will not eventually happen. Say, isn't that the way that Joseph Smith did it? What a coincidence! Yeah, Joseph Smith did claim he received a revelation from God. It's the same as Muhammad's claim of receiving a revelation from the angel Gabriel. This is why Paul writes that one of the spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12:10 is to "distinguish among spirits," or have the gift of discernment. The Apostle Titus also writes for Christians to "test the spirits" to know if they are from God. Jesus preached the coming Apocalypse which heralds the Coming of the Son of Man. “Sons of Man” are divine beings like the angels. Sons of Man can also be humans elevated to divine status such as Elijah or Enoch. Jesus is quoting the Prophecy of Daniel: Daniel 7 13 In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.Jesus may have said “son of man” “like a son of a man” or he never said it and the gospel writer added it as fitting something Jesus would have said since by then the former pagan Christians had overtaken the church, post Paul, and misunderstood his divine status Paul believed him to be, like Elijah, rather than a human born of a virgin with God’s soul inside him, which would have been blasphemous for Paul to think.
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Post by Sarge on Jan 13, 2023 1:14:47 GMT
And it does not mean he did. The one line in the entire Bible that’s speaks of a “rapture” is not necessarily Paul being literal. He lived under the expectation that Jesus was returning any day now, just like you…2,000 years later. Paul's description of the rapture is nearly identical to Jesus's prophecy in Matthew 24:30-31. The last I checked, Paul's letters to the churches (including the one in Thessalonica) predates any writing of the four canonical Gospels. Either, Paul heard of the prophecy of a rapture from the surviving disciples or he received it from God directly. There is more likely option, that Paul influenced the content of the Gospels.
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Post by paulslaugh on Jan 13, 2023 2:22:06 GMT
Paul's description of the rapture is nearly identical to Jesus's prophecy in Matthew 24:30-31. The last I checked, Paul's letters to the churches (including the one in Thessalonica) predates any writing of the four canonical Gospels. Either, Paul heard of the prophecy of a rapture from the surviving disciples or he received it from God directly. There is more likely option, that Paul influenced the content of the Gospels. The cult of Orpheus (a dying and rebirth god), a morality reforming offshoot of the cult of Bacchus/Dionysus, seems to have influenced the early still forming church. They were probably a lot of first converts since like the Christians, they were shunned by the mainstream pagans for rejecting the other gods, as well as Bacchus himself, in favor of Apollo and his Mysteries.
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Post by Archelaus on Jan 13, 2023 3:28:23 GMT
Paul's description of the rapture is nearly identical to Jesus's prophecy in Matthew 24:30-31. The last I checked, Paul's letters to the churches (including the one in Thessalonica) predates any writing of the four canonical Gospels. Either, Paul heard of the prophecy of a rapture from the surviving disciples or he received it from God directly. There is more likely option, that Paul influenced the content of the Gospels. I would take no objection to that. After all, Luke the Evangelist was a companion of Paul.
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