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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 3, 2017 20:41:01 GMT
Right now, Black Widow deserves a movie of her own, more than any other female superhero. Don't let ArArArArArArArArArArseHoleStanton hear you say that! He'll have another stroke.
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Post by ghostintheshell on Jun 4, 2017 5:46:02 GMT
Right now, Black Widow deserves a movie of her own, more than any other female superhero. Don't let ArArArArArArArArArArseHoleStanton hear you say that! He'll have another stroke. I don't know who that is and I dont care lol. I only care about what BW deserves and she deserves a movie of her own.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2017 6:35:50 GMT
Well, we have ‘Batgirl’, ‘Gotham City Sirens’, ‘Captain Marvel’, ‘Painkiller Jane’, ‘Avagelyne, ‘The Pro’ and ‘Witchblade’ movies all coming up and ‘Birds of Prey’ and ‘Supergirl’ are already rumoured with Supergirl rumoured to debut in ‘Man of Steel 2’ which would no doubt set up a ‘Supergirl’ movie but the female lead comic book movies I want to see the most apart from the ones already confirmed are
1) Supergirl (Linda Danvers/Earth Born Angel of Fire: The biggest selling and longest running series of Supergirl. Linda would be far better in the movies than Kara and would be nothing like we have ever seen in a superhero movie before. If DC could come to an agreement with Peter David to use her for a movie it would be awesome!!) or Fallen Angel 2) Birds of Prey 3) Raven 4) Black Canary (with Dinah Drake as the lead singer of the Black Canary band) 5) Red Sonja 6) Batwoman 7) Starfire 8) Aphrodite IX 9) Darkchylde 10) Zatanna 11) Swords of Sorrow 12) Spider Woman 13) Vampirella 14) Fathom 15) Batgirl 2 (With Jim Gordon Jr and The Joker as the main villains. Based on Batgirl: Death of the Family. The first movie should have Knightfall as the main villain with her gang, The Disgraced and Strix who becomes good and joins the Birds of Prey.) 16) Hack/Slash 17) Monstress 18) Wonderland (Alice and Callie Liddle) 19) The Magdalena 20) Soulfire 21) Hellina 22) Sabrina the Teenage Witch (With Melissa Joan Hart) 23) The Huntress 24) Danger Girl 25) Power Girl 26) Tarot Witch of the Black Rose 27) Warrior Nun Areala 28) Shi 29) Nancy In Hell On Earth 30) Catwoman (a REAL Catwoman movie this time)
And not a female superhero movie but definitely
Sunstone
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jun 4, 2017 15:57:16 GMT
I personally would love a Storm solo film, but not by Fox, they fucked her up with the X-Men films.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 4, 2017 16:07:23 GMT
Make it a non-origin origin story about how she got into the Red Room and the events before she got into SHIELD (set now of course). Bring in villains Ivan Petrovitch (as the guy that brought her there) and Alexei "Red Guardian" Shostakov (her ex) for the muscle. Then go superhero James Bond on it. They can add in whatever they want that would lead into whatever bigger story they are going to do. Like the Russians know the Beyonder is starting the Secret Wars or something. You make the movie personal so she wouldn't want to involve Stark or the Avengers or SHIELD. I'd like to see a Thunderbolts movie told from the perspective of Jolt. Could kinda be Marvel's Suicide Squad. The beauty of this is that you really don't have to have them be known villains like in the comics (We already have Zemo). Maybe have a walk-by on a tv news story saying there was a break out at the Raft of about 4-5 villains. Anya Corazon's Spider-girl could be good. Daughters of the Dragon. Would rather see a movie of this than try to draw our 8-13 episodes on Netflix. I would kind of like to see some Thunderbolt actually.
But we could speculate on what a Widow film could be all day, I just don't think A: There's any room for it, and B: It makes much sense at this point.
They're talking about going cosmic and that phase 4 will be very different, and Widow clearly doesn't represent either of those two qualities.
And then we have to consider the number of films they can make. We pretty much know that there are sequels coming for Strange, Panther, Spidey, Marvel, and Guardians, plus perhaps a new character, more of the cosmic films they're talking about, and maybe even a new Cap, Thor, or Iron Man film. Just looking at that list at least 7 of those would get made, and that's more than 2 years worth, after Avengers 4, which is another year away. I just don't see where a Widow film fits in to any of that. I really don't.
I know it makes much sense. That's why people want it. And how it fits into that? As an opener for the cosmic stuff. Did you not see me say that they can add in something like the Russians knowing about the Beyonder? That's as cosmic as you can get. Make it so that the Winter Soldier and Red Room programs were ultimately to create these super soldiers to go up against the Beyonder or whoever. You can have the Black Widow movie be what gets us into that new arena. The same as how Thor started us into the Infinity War arena.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 4, 2017 16:12:35 GMT
I personally would love a Storm solo film, but not by Fox, they fucked her up with the X-Men films. She wasn't amazing in the OT, but you didn't like the new Storm from Apocalypse? I thought she was great.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 4, 2017 16:16:45 GMT
I know it makes much sense. That's why people want it. And how it fits into that? As an opener for the cosmic stuff. Did you not see me say that they can add in something like the Russians knowing about the Beyonder? That's as cosmic as you can get. Make it so that the Winter Soldier and Red Room programs were ultimately to create these super soldiers to go up against the Beyonder or whoever. You can have the Black Widow movie be what gets us into that new arena. The same as how Thor started us into the Infinity War arena. I did, but we can come up with a story about how Aunt May gets us into those stories if you really wanted to. Finding some way to make it work isn't really the point. Mephisto possesses her and Spiderman has to deal with it, IDK. It's about more than that though, and the question is why this is the movie to do that with. If we want to make it a female hero, then do Phyla Vell and it's a much more natural fit. I've just never gotten the idea that there's any need for a Black Widow movie and for comparison I feel the same way about Hawkeye. Would you make the same argument that we need a Hawekeye movie and could make him deal with some organization who is tracking the Beyonder?
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barkingbaphomet
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Post by barkingbaphomet on Jun 4, 2017 16:29:37 GMT
Phyla aint happening. anything they might want her for they'll have Carol.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 4, 2017 16:57:14 GMT
I know it makes much sense. That's why people want it. And how it fits into that? As an opener for the cosmic stuff. Did you not see me say that they can add in something like the Russians knowing about the Beyonder? That's as cosmic as you can get. Make it so that the Winter Soldier and Red Room programs were ultimately to create these super soldiers to go up against the Beyonder or whoever. You can have the Black Widow movie be what gets us into that new arena. The same as how Thor started us into the Infinity War arena. I did, but we can come up with a story about how Aunt May gets us into those stories if you really wanted to. Finding some way to make it work isn't really the point. Mephisto possesses her and Spiderman has to deal with it, IDK. It's about more than that though, and the question is why this is the movie to do that with. If we want to make it a female hero, then do Phyla Vell and it's a much more natural fit. I've just never gotten the idea that there's any need for a Black Widow movie and for comparison I feel the same way about Hawkeye. Would you make the same argument that we need a Hawekeye movie and could make him deal with some organization who is tracking the Beyonder? Finding a way to make it work is the entire point. You don't just make a story and say that doesn't work. You make the story work for the whole. Wouldn't that be a Spider-man story? You have Spider-man get possessed and she is called in to deal with it. But, again, that wouldn't be a personal story to her, unless... You have it that Mephisto knows about her past and is using it against her and calling spirits of her enemies. Have her literally fight her demons. You see what I did there? I made the story work for the character. Phyla Vell is just another Captain Marvel movie... Yes, I would make the same argument for Hawkeye. I'd make the same argument for any character. You can make a movie for any character and make it work. Hell, you can do it without changing the character all all from what they are in the source material. [Edit]Just thought of a Hawkeye movie. After his escape from the raft his home is found and bombed. His family is thought dead. You bring in Kate Bishop (he was training her before he retired) and maybe Mockingbird from SHIELD. Have Crossfire as the main villain with the Silencer as a henchman. This could be his Winter Soldier movie, but I see it closer to something like Mission: Impossible 3. Him being on the run, everyone thinks he's a villain and his family in danger.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 4, 2017 17:07:41 GMT
Finding a way to make it work is the entire point. You don't just make a story and say that doesn't work. You make the story work for the whole. Wouldn't that be a Spider-man story? You have Spider-man get possessed and she is called in to deal with it. But, again, that wouldn't be a personal story to her, unless... You have it that Mephisto knows about her past and is using it against her and calling spirits of her enemies. Have her literally fight her demons. You see what I did there? I made the story work for the character. Phyla Vell is just another Captain Marvel movie... Yes, I would make the same argument for Hawkeye. I'd make the same argument for any character. You can make a movie for any character and make it work. Hell, you can do it without changing the character all all from what they are in the source material. Actually I think finding something that works is the point, and not picking something you want to work and making it work.
I put no thought into the Aunt May Mephisto idea other than to try and highlight that you could create a justification for any character to be in their own film. The question is why, and I haven't heard a reasonable answer to that question for Black Widow. Yet. There might be an answer, I just don't think her past or it being a spy movie gets it green lit.
Phyla could be similar to Captain Marvel, sure. So team her up with Moondragon and play up that relationship.
But I guess we are coming at this from two different angles, because I definitely would not make a case for Hawkeye in this version of the MCU getting his own film. I'm mostly viewing this from a macro perspective, meaning it has to add something to the whole, and I think both of those characters as presented add all they are going to as side characters. Widow would add more as being a part of Captain America 4 than she would in a solo, IMO.
In terms of female centric films, I'd much rather see where Spiderwoman comes from, how She-Hulk is created, or what Phyla and Moondragon are up to. I'd take a Scarlet Witch film for sure because she's done some major things in the MCU.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 4, 2017 17:34:59 GMT
Finding a way to make it work is the entire point. You don't just make a story and say that doesn't work. You make the story work for the whole. Wouldn't that be a Spider-man story? You have Spider-man get possessed and she is called in to deal with it. But, again, that wouldn't be a personal story to her, unless... You have it that Mephisto knows about her past and is using it against her and calling spirits of her enemies. Have her literally fight her demons. You see what I did there? I made the story work for the character. Phyla Vell is just another Captain Marvel movie... Yes, I would make the same argument for Hawkeye. I'd make the same argument for any character. You can make a movie for any character and make it work. Hell, you can do it without changing the character all all from what they are in the source material. Actually I think finding something that works is the point, and not picking something you want to work and making it work.
I put no thought into the Aunt May Mephisto idea other than to try and highlight that you could create a justification for any character to be in their own film. The question is why, and I haven't heard a reasonable answer to that question for Black Widow. Yet. There might be an answer, I just don't think her past or it being a spy movie gets it green lit.
Phyla could be similar to Captain Marvel, sure. So team her up with Moondragon and play up that relationship.
But I guess we are coming at this from two different angles, because I definitely would not make a case for Hawkeye in this version of the MCU getting his own film. I'm mostly viewing this from a macro perspective, meaning it has to add something to the whole, and I think both of those characters as presented add all they are going to as side characters. Widow would add more as being a part of Captain America 4 than she would in a solo, IMO.
You are limiting yourself when you are doing it that way. And that is the problem. You are putting no thought into any of it besides: that won't work. Also, I didn't think of it being about Aunt May because we were talking about Black Widow. But thinking of it from the Aunt May perspective it still would work if you had him possessed and Aunt May had to save him. Make it a small Venom style, psuedo horror movie (Spider-man being that Venom character). Or turn the villain into Demigoblin. You keep it from her perspective when she saves him and Spider-man defeats the villain. That's why you use the movie to uncover something bigger. That's why you reveal that the Russians found out about the Beyonder or something else cosmic. Think "What character can we use to bring out this thing?" Then you say "Which character have people been asking for to do this?" You weave a Black Widow story into that bigger story you want to tell. The answer to your why is because you can. Why make Iron Man 3? Why make Guardians 2 and 3? Guardians 2 didn't add anything to the MCU as a whole. It introduced a character that would fit into the whole, but that character won't show up until after the story he is suppose to be in. Iron Man 3 didn't add anything to the MCU as a whole. Why make Spider-man Homecoming? Do you really think it adds more to Infinity War? Black Panther comes out before Infinity War. Does that add more to it? Also, I said Black Widow would be the doorway into them going further into that cosmic world. That is the why. It would be the Iron Man 1 of Phase 4. Iron Man 1 didn't get us into that Avengers world until the end. It brought us SHIELD, but not the Avengers world. That's what that 1st movie into Phase 4 would do. Use Black Widow to get us there by getting the people in her world there. Stop thinking in straight lines. But she is a Russian character. What would Cap add to that side of things? What would Cap add to something cosmic? He's not a cosmic character. Why not give more of her backstory in her own story and add to something more? Why would you start a post about female characters that need their own movies, then say you can use a male character for that?
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 4, 2017 17:45:05 GMT
You are limiting yourself when you are doing it that way. And that is the problem. You are putting no thought into any of it besides: that won't work. Also, I didn't think of it being about Aunt May because we were talking about Black Widow. But thinking of it from the Aunt May perspective it still would work if you had him possessed and Aunt May had to save him. Make it a small Venom style, psuedo horror movie (Spider-man being that Venom character). Or turn the villain into Demigoblin. You keep it from her perspective when she saves him and Spider-man defeats the villain. That's why you use the movie to uncover something bigger. That's why you reveal that the Russians found out about the Beyonder or something else cosmic. Don't think in straight lines. Think "What character can we use to bring out this thing?" Then you say "Which character have people been asking for to do this?" You weave a Black Widow story into that bigger story you want to tell. The answer to your why is because you can. Why make Iron Man 3? Why make Guardians 2 and 3? Guardians 2 didn't add anything to the MCU as a whole. It introduced a character that would fit into the whole, but that character won't show up until after the story he is suppose to be in. Iron Man 3 didn't add anything to the MCU as a whole. Why make Spider-man Homecoming? Do you really think it adds more to Infinity War? Black Panther comes out before Infinity War. Does that add more to it? Also, I said Black Widow would be the doorway into them going further into that cosmic world. That is the why. It would be the Iron Man 1 of Phase 4. Iron Man 1 didn't get us into that Avengers world until the end. It brought us SHIELD, but not the Avengers world. That's what that 1st movie into Phase 4 would do. Use Black Widow to get us there by getting the people in her world there. Stop thinking in straight lines. But she is a Russian character. What would Cap add to that side of things? What would Cap add to something cosmic? He's not a cosmic character. Why not give more of her backstory in her own story and add to something more? Why would you start a post about female characters that need their own movies, then say you can use a male character for that? The story dictates the characters used, not the other way around. That's what I'm saying. I'm not limiting myself, I'm just not putting the cart before the horse.
When writing, you decide what direction to go in and then pick the team to get there. You don't pick the team and then decide what to do with them all.
That's what smart writers like James Gunn even tell you directly. He really wanted Adam Warlock, but he realized it didn't work for what he was doing. He didn't do what you're suggesting and just find a way to do it, because he knows the story is what has to come first.
All I'm saying is I don't see a story Black Widow serves to be the lead of.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 4, 2017 17:59:10 GMT
You are limiting yourself when you are doing it that way. And that is the problem. You are putting no thought into any of it besides: that won't work. Also, I didn't think of it being about Aunt May because we were talking about Black Widow. But thinking of it from the Aunt May perspective it still would work if you had him possessed and Aunt May had to save him. Make it a small Venom style, psuedo horror movie (Spider-man being that Venom character). Or turn the villain into Demigoblin. You keep it from her perspective when she saves him and Spider-man defeats the villain. That's why you use the movie to uncover something bigger. That's why you reveal that the Russians found out about the Beyonder or something else cosmic. Don't think in straight lines. Think "What character can we use to bring out this thing?" Then you say "Which character have people been asking for to do this?" You weave a Black Widow story into that bigger story you want to tell. The answer to your why is because you can. Why make Iron Man 3? Why make Guardians 2 and 3? Guardians 2 didn't add anything to the MCU as a whole. It introduced a character that would fit into the whole, but that character won't show up until after the story he is suppose to be in. Iron Man 3 didn't add anything to the MCU as a whole. Why make Spider-man Homecoming? Do you really think it adds more to Infinity War? Black Panther comes out before Infinity War. Does that add more to it? Also, I said Black Widow would be the doorway into them going further into that cosmic world. That is the why. It would be the Iron Man 1 of Phase 4. Iron Man 1 didn't get us into that Avengers world until the end. It brought us SHIELD, but not the Avengers world. That's what that 1st movie into Phase 4 would do. Use Black Widow to get us there by getting the people in her world there. Stop thinking in straight lines. But she is a Russian character. What would Cap add to that side of things? What would Cap add to something cosmic? He's not a cosmic character. Why not give more of her backstory in her own story and add to something more? Why would you start a post about female characters that need their own movies, then say you can use a male character for that? The story dictates the characters used, not the other way around. That's what I'm saying. I'm not limiting myself, I'm just not putting the cart before the horse.
When writing, you decide what direction to go in and then pick the team to get there. You don't pick the team and then decide what to do with them all.
That's what smart writers like James Gunn even tell you directly. He really wanted Adam Warlock, but he realized it didn't work for what he was doing. He didn't do what you're suggesting and just find a way to do it, because he knows the story is what has to come first.
All I'm saying is I don't see a story Black Widow serves to be the lead of.
The character would be the horse. The story would be the cart. As you have said, "you decide what direction to go in and then pick the team to get there." We want these character to go cosmic, how do we get there? We get a character to open that door. Do we just run down the street and just send them in a rocket? No, we take side streets and give them a reason to take that rocket. We uncover something about that thing that gets us to this other point so we can get there. Which is funny because that's exactly what you are saying James Gunn did with Adam Warlock. Guardians 2 would be kinda what I'm saying to get to that next level isn't it? While on her personal mission about her past (Star Lord and Ego) she uncovers something that would get them to further stories (Warlock). Dude, you are trying to find ways not have a Black Widow movie, but is proving my point.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 4, 2017 18:05:10 GMT
The character would be the horse. The story would be the cart. As you have said, "you decide what direction to go in and then pick the team to get there." We want these character to go cosmic, how do we get there? We get a character to open that door. Do we just run down the street and just send them in a rocket? No, we take side streets and give them a reason to take that rocket. We uncover something about that thing that gets us to this other point so we can get there. Which is funny because that's exactly what you are saying James Gunn did with Adam Warlock. Guardians 2 would be kinda what I'm saying to get to that next level isn't it? While on her personal mission about her past (Star Lord and Ego) she uncovers something that would get them to further stories (Warlock). Dude, you are trying to find ways not have a Black Widow movie, but is proving my point. Ahhhh a great opportunity to iron a fundamental difference between us. I'm very much saying the story is the horse. We want the story to go cosmic, so what characters do we need to get there. We get a character to drive the ship we've chosen, not a ship for the character we want.
James Gunn realizes Adam Warlock didn't fit on the ship.
I'm not finding ways not to have a Widow movie, I just don't see a ship she's the captain of.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 4, 2017 18:12:44 GMT
The character would be the horse. The story would be the cart. As you have said, "you decide what direction to go in and then pick the team to get there." We want these character to go cosmic, how do we get there? We get a character to open that door. Do we just run down the street and just send them in a rocket? No, we take side streets and give them a reason to take that rocket. We uncover something about that thing that gets us to this other point so we can get there. Which is funny because that's exactly what you are saying James Gunn did with Adam Warlock. Guardians 2 would be kinda what I'm saying to get to that next level isn't it? While on her personal mission about her past (Star Lord and Ego) she uncovers something that would get them to further stories (Warlock). Dude, you are trying to find ways not have a Black Widow movie, but is proving my point. Ahhhh a great opportunity to iron a fundamental difference between us. I'm very much saying the story is the horse. We want the story to go cosmic, so what characters do we need to get there. We get a character to drive the ship we've chosen, not a ship for the character we want.
James Gunn realizes Adam Warlock didn't fit on the ship.
I'm not finding ways not to have a Widow movie, I just don't see a ship she's the captain of.
Think about what you are saying. You want the story to go cosmic, so what characters do we need to get us there. The horse gets us there. The characters get us there. The horse pulls the cart along. The characters would pull the story along. The ship is the story. I showed you the ship she would be captain of. You just don't want to see it.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 4, 2017 19:31:43 GMT
Think about what you are saying. You want the story to go cosmic, so what characters do we need to get us there. The horse gets us there. The characters get us there. The horse pulls the cart along. The characters would pull the story along. The ship is the story. I showed you the ship she would be captain of. You just don't want to see it. I have thought about what I'm saying. What I'm saying is Widow isn't qualified to drive the ship you want her to drive. The horse gets us there, and she doesn't know how to ride a horse. I don't know of a ship/horse that needs to sail that she is qualified to drive.
I'm trying to tell you why there hasn't been a black widow movie and probably won't be. If you want to dream up reasons why there could be, ok, but I'm trying to explain the reason why there isn't.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 4, 2017 19:45:51 GMT
Think about what you are saying. You want the story to go cosmic, so what characters do we need to get us there. The horse gets us there. The characters get us there. The horse pulls the cart along. The characters would pull the story along. The ship is the story. I showed you the ship she would be captain of. You just don't want to see it. I have thought about what I'm saying. What I'm saying is Widow isn't qualified to drive the ship you want her to drive. The horse gets us there, and she doesn't know how to ride a horse. I don't know of a ship/horse that needs to sail that she is qualified to drive. She can ride on a horse/ship that somebody else is driving.
I'm trying to tell you why there hasn't been a black widow movie and probably won't be. If you want to dream up reasons why there could be, ok, but I'm trying to explain the reason why there isn't.
I'm starting to think you just don't want her to have her own movie and there is no real reason for this.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 4, 2017 19:51:31 GMT
I'm starting to think you just don't want her to have her own movie and there is no real reason for this. Actually I would absolutely love her to have one, IF a narrative reason exits that dictates she needs to have one. If the primary reason is just so we can say we have a Black Widow movie, then I'd kindly suggest that isn't going to be good enough to get one green lit. There are quite a few other films already in line, so if the story isn't significant enough to warrant her as a lead, she's not going to have a place in that line, as anything other than support, which I would just want to say she has been extremely good at. I love all of her roles so far.
Her best hope right now, IMO, is that in phase 4, Marvel will just being doing whatever they want, concentrate less on an overall narrative, and then you may get a Widow film because they can sell it as the for the fans film we've all been waiting for, and not worry about how much it connects to anything. And that's fine if they do it. Just keep in mind there are 5 sequels and several other things to get to as well.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jun 4, 2017 20:17:50 GMT
I personally would love a Storm solo film, but not by Fox, they fucked her up with the X-Men films. She wasn't amazing in the OT, but you didn't like the new Storm from Apocalypse? I thought she was great. Honestly, i didn't care for the actress they got for her.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 6, 2017 19:54:43 GMT
I'm starting to think you just don't want her to have her own movie and there is no real reason for this. Actually I would absolutely love her to have one, IF a narrative reason exits that dictates she needs to have one. If the primary reason is just so we can say we have a Black Widow movie, then I'd kindly suggest that isn't going to be good enough to get one green lit. There are quite a few other films already in line, so if the story isn't significant enough to warrant her as a lead, she's not going to have a place in that line, as anything other than support, which I would just want to say she has been extremely good at. I love all of her roles so far.
Her best hope right now, IMO, is that in phase 4, Marvel will just being doing whatever they want, concentrate less on an overall narrative, and then you may get a Widow film because they can sell it as the for the fans film we've all been waiting for, and not worry about how much it connects to anything. And that's fine if they do it. Just keep in mind there are 5 sequels and several other things to get to as well.
And I gave a reason for her to have one that fit both her personally and for the greater MCU. And you can't say that they gave Black Panther a solo movie because it dictated that he has one. You can't say the same for Ant-man either. Iron Man 3 didn't need to happen because it didn't have a narrative reason. Um, I said how she would fit in the overall narrative. She'd be the opener. The prologue, really. The movie that gets things going. I mean... She's a spy. She'd find some information on whatever. That's what she does. Use that to start things off on the next phase.
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