djorno
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Post by djorno on Feb 10, 2023 20:22:07 GMT
Not a fan. Too many red flags in regards to his life and teachings for my liking. Unlike some here though I believe he definitely was a historical person. What were they? 1. When Muhammad began receiving revelations, his first impression of these revelations was that they were demonic. 2. Muhammad was so traumatized by his encounter with "Gabriel" that he repeatedly tried to commit suicide by hurling himself off a cliff. 3. According to Muslim sources, Muhammad once delivered a revelation from the devil (the "Satanic Verses"). 4. Muhammad claimed that he was a victim of a magic spell that gave him delusional thoughts and false beliefs. 5. Islam promotes idolatry (e.g., bowing down to the Kaaba and kissing the black stone). 6. Islam promotes pagan rituals (e.g., the pilgrimage to Mecca). 7. Islam deifies Muhammad by requiring unconditional obedience to him and by requiring Muslims to talk to him during their daily prayers. 8. After leaving Mecca, Muhammad supported his religion by robbing people. 9. Muhammad ordered his followers to torture a man named Kinana to find out where some money was hidden. Muhammad then had Kinana killed, and took his wife for himself. 10. Muhammad commanded his followers to kill critics of Islam. 11. Muhammad ordered his followers to kill apostates, even if they had good reasons for leaving Islam. 12. The Qur'an commands Muslims to violently subjugate Jews and Christians. 13. The Qur'an claims that stars are missiles that Allah uses to shoot demons. 14. The Qur'an claims that the sun sets in a pool of murky water. 15. Muhammad's teachings about personal hygiene would lead to death if Muslims took them seriously. 16. Muhammad claimed that Gabriel explained to him why children look like one parent or the other. Gabriel's answer is completely false. 17. When Muhammad was too shy to tell his dinner guests to leave, Allah stepped in with a special revelation that should make everyone wonder whether Muhammad's revelations really have anything to do with God. 18. The Qur'an declares that Christians find Muhammad mentioned in our scriptures. Yet our scriptures call Muhammad an antichrist. 19. In the Qur'an, Allah promises to kill Muhammad by severing his aorta if Muhammad invents a false revelation. When Muhammad died, he said he could feel his aorta being severed. 20. The Qur'an contains a prophecy that wasn't fulfilled. 21. The Qur'an presents a test for divine inspiration, but fails the test. 22. The central argument for the inspiration of the Qur'an is the "Argument from Literary Excellence," which is absurd on multiple levels. 23. The author of the Qur'an doesn't know that Miriam, the sister of Aaron and Moses, is a different person from Mary, the mother of Jesus (because their names are the same in Arabic). 24. The Qur'an claims that Alexander the Great and Aesop were devout Muslims. 25. Allah promises to protect the Qur'an from corruption, but the Qur'an has been corrupted (by Muslim standards). 26. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is Allah's eternal Word. Yet Allah repeatedly changes his eternal mind about his eternal Word via abrogation. 27. The Qur'an is missing at least two verses in which Allah commands grown women to breastfeed grown men in order to prevent sexual misconduct. 28. The Qur'an contains numerous false stories that were plagiarized from other sources. 29. Muhammad allowed his followers to hire prostitutes. 30. The Qur'an allows Muslim men to have up to four wives at a time. But Muhammad received a special revelation giving him (and him alone) the right to break the four-wife limit. 31. Muhammad had sex with a prepubescent nine-year-old girl named Aisha. 32. The Qur'an allows Muslim men to beat their wives into submission. 33. Islam allows Muslim men to rape their female captives and slave-girls. 34. Muhammad married the divorced wife of his own adopted son (after Muhammad caused the divorce), and the Qur'an offers an absurd defense of Muhammad's actions. 35. When Muhammad's wife Sauda became fat and unattractive, Muhammad intended to divorce her. Sauda had to relinquish some of her marital rights to avoid being abandoned. 36. After Muhammad got caught having sex with his slave girl in the bed of one of his wives, he swore that he would stop having sex with his slave-girl. Allah ordered him to break that oath. 37. Muhammad claimed that women are less intelligent and less moral than men. 38. When Muhammad's wives asked why he was giving special privileges to Aisha, he justified his actions by saying that he received revelations while wearing Aisha's dress! 39. According to the Qur'an, Allah has no love for unbelievers. 40. According to the Qur'an, Allah is the "best of deceivers." 41. According to Muhammad, Allah wants people to sin, and he threatens us with annihilation if we refuse to sin. 42. Since Allah would destroy us for not sinning, the true savior of humanity, according to Islam, is Satan, who tempts human beings to sin and therefore protects us from being destroyed. 43. Muhammad didn't know whether he would go to heaven or hell when he died. 44. Islam teaches that Allah will punish Jews and Christians in hell for the sins of Muslims. 45. Muhammad promises his followers a paradise in which Allah will bless them with eternal erections so that they can continually deflower their virgins. 46. Islam affirms the inspiration, preservation, and authority of the Jewish and Christian scriptures, yet Islam contradicts these scriptures on a fundamental level. 47. Islam claims to respect and honor Jesus, yet it portrays him as a complete failure. 48. Muslims believe that the Gospel has been corrupted. But according to Islam, part of the Gospel was corrupted by Allah himself. 49. Islam reverses the Gospel by having the guilty Judas die on behalf of the innocent Jesus, rather than the innocent Jesus dying on behalf of sinners. 50. Christianity is confirmed by Jesus' resurrection from the dead. Since Islam contradicts Christianity, and has no comparable confirmation from God, we must reject Islam. Don’t get me started on some of absurd teachings in the Hadiths.
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Post by clusium on Feb 10, 2023 21:16:28 GMT
1. When Muhammad began receiving revelations, his first impression of these revelations was that they were demonic. 2. Muhammad was so traumatized by his encounter with "Gabriel" that he repeatedly tried to commit suicide by hurling himself off a cliff. 3. According to Muslim sources, Muhammad once delivered a revelation from the devil (the "Satanic Verses"). 4. Muhammad claimed that he was a victim of a magic spell that gave him delusional thoughts and false beliefs. 5. Islam promotes idolatry (e.g., bowing down to the Kaaba and kissing the black stone). 6. Islam promotes pagan rituals (e.g., the pilgrimage to Mecca). 7. Islam deifies Muhammad by requiring unconditional obedience to him and by requiring Muslims to talk to him during their daily prayers. 8. After leaving Mecca, Muhammad supported his religion by robbing people. 9. Muhammad ordered his followers to torture a man named Kinana to find out where some money was hidden. Muhammad then had Kinana killed, and took his wife for himself. 10. Muhammad commanded his followers to kill critics of Islam. 11. Muhammad ordered his followers to kill apostates, even if they had good reasons for leaving Islam. 12. The Qur'an commands Muslims to violently subjugate Jews and Christians. 13. The Qur'an claims that stars are missiles that Allah uses to shoot demons. 14. The Qur'an claims that the sun sets in a pool of murky water. 15. Muhammad's teachings about personal hygiene would lead to death if Muslims took them seriously. 16. Muhammad claimed that Gabriel explained to him why children look like one parent or the other. Gabriel's answer is completely false. 17. When Muhammad was too shy to tell his dinner guests to leave, Allah stepped in with a special revelation that should make everyone wonder whether Muhammad's revelations really have anything to do with God. 18. The Qur'an declares that Christians find Muhammad mentioned in our scriptures. Yet our scriptures call Muhammad an antichrist. 19. In the Qur'an, Allah promises to kill Muhammad by severing his aorta if Muhammad invents a false revelation. When Muhammad died, he said he could feel his aorta being severed. 20. The Qur'an contains a prophecy that wasn't fulfilled. 21. The Qur'an presents a test for divine inspiration, but fails the test. 22. The central argument for the inspiration of the Qur'an is the "Argument from Literary Excellence," which is absurd on multiple levels. 23. The author of the Qur'an doesn't know that Miriam, the sister of Aaron and Moses, is a different person from Mary, the mother of Jesus (because their names are the same in Arabic). 24. The Qur'an claims that Alexander the Great and Aesop were devout Muslims. 25. Allah promises to protect the Qur'an from corruption, but the Qur'an has been corrupted (by Muslim standards). 26. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is Allah's eternal Word. Yet Allah repeatedly changes his eternal mind about his eternal Word via abrogation. 27. The Qur'an is missing at least two verses in which Allah commands grown women to breastfeed grown men in order to prevent sexual misconduct. 28. The Qur'an contains numerous false stories that were plagiarized from other sources. 29. Muhammad allowed his followers to hire prostitutes. 30. The Qur'an allows Muslim men to have up to four wives at a time. But Muhammad received a special revelation giving him (and him alone) the right to break the four-wife limit. 31. Muhammad had sex with a prepubescent nine-year-old girl named Aisha. 32. The Qur'an allows Muslim men to beat their wives into submission. 33. Islam allows Muslim men to rape their female captives and slave-girls. 34. Muhammad married the divorced wife of his own adopted son (after Muhammad caused the divorce), and the Qur'an offers an absurd defense of Muhammad's actions. 35. When Muhammad's wife Sauda became fat and unattractive, Muhammad intended to divorce her. Sauda had to relinquish some of her marital rights to avoid being abandoned. 36. After Muhammad got caught having sex with his slave girl in the bed of one of his wives, he swore that he would stop having sex with his slave-girl. Allah ordered him to break that oath. 37. Muhammad claimed that women are less intelligent and less moral than men. 38. When Muhammad's wives asked why he was giving special privileges to Aisha, he justified his actions by saying that he received revelations while wearing Aisha's dress! 39. According to the Qur'an, Allah has no love for unbelievers. 40. According to the Qur'an, Allah is the "best of deceivers." 41. According to Muhammad, Allah wants people to sin, and he threatens us with annihilation if we refuse to sin. 42. Since Allah would destroy us for not sinning, the true savior of humanity, according to Islam, is Satan, who tempts human beings to sin and therefore protects us from being destroyed. 43. Muhammad didn't know whether he would go to heaven or hell when he died. 44. Islam teaches that Allah will punish Jews and Christians in hell for the sins of Muslims. 45. Muhammad promises his followers a paradise in which Allah will bless them with eternal erections so that they can continually deflower their virgins. 46. Islam affirms the inspiration, preservation, and authority of the Jewish and Christian scriptures, yet Islam contradicts these scriptures on a fundamental level. 47. Islam claims to respect and honor Jesus, yet it portrays him as a complete failure. 48. Muslims believe that the Gospel has been corrupted. But according to Islam, part of the Gospel was corrupted by Allah himself. 49. Islam reverses the Gospel by having the guilty Judas die on behalf of the innocent Jesus, rather than the innocent Jesus dying on behalf of sinners. 50. Christianity is confirmed by Jesus' resurrection from the dead. Since Islam contradicts Christianity, and has no comparable confirmation from God, we must reject Islam. Don’t get me started on some of absurd teachings in the Hadiths. Interesting. Thanks. A few of them, we all already know, such as his marriage to Aisha, who was a little girl. But, as a few of us have already mentioned earlier, it was a different time & different culture. Muslims deny that the Quran had confused Miriam the sister of Moses, with Our Lady, saying "sister of Aaron," was a Title to her, being a child of temple priest.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2023 21:59:13 GMT
The Christian age of marriage in the 1500/1600s was just 12 years old for girls... Bunch of paedophiles them Christians? And child sexual love is still widely celebrated today in the play Romeo and Juliet. Romeo was about 17 years old, & Juliet was about 14. In other words, they were teenagers, which very typically date. Juliet was under 14.
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Post by clusium on Feb 10, 2023 22:00:47 GMT
Romeo was about 17 years old, & Juliet was about 14. In other words, they were teenagers, which very typically date. Juliet was under 14. Just turning 14. Still a teenager.
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djorno
Sophomore
@djorno
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Post by djorno on Feb 10, 2023 22:04:00 GMT
1. When Muhammad began receiving revelations, his first impression of these revelations was that they were demonic. 2. Muhammad was so traumatized by his encounter with "Gabriel" that he repeatedly tried to commit suicide by hurling himself off a cliff. 3. According to Muslim sources, Muhammad once delivered a revelation from the devil (the "Satanic Verses"). 4. Muhammad claimed that he was a victim of a magic spell that gave him delusional thoughts and false beliefs. 5. Islam promotes idolatry (e.g., bowing down to the Kaaba and kissing the black stone). 6. Islam promotes pagan rituals (e.g., the pilgrimage to Mecca). 7. Islam deifies Muhammad by requiring unconditional obedience to him and by requiring Muslims to talk to him during their daily prayers. 8. After leaving Mecca, Muhammad supported his religion by robbing people. 9. Muhammad ordered his followers to torture a man named Kinana to find out where some money was hidden. Muhammad then had Kinana killed, and took his wife for himself. 10. Muhammad commanded his followers to kill critics of Islam. 11. Muhammad ordered his followers to kill apostates, even if they had good reasons for leaving Islam. 12. The Qur'an commands Muslims to violently subjugate Jews and Christians. 13. The Qur'an claims that stars are missiles that Allah uses to shoot demons. 14. The Qur'an claims that the sun sets in a pool of murky water. 15. Muhammad's teachings about personal hygiene would lead to death if Muslims took them seriously. 16. Muhammad claimed that Gabriel explained to him why children look like one parent or the other. Gabriel's answer is completely false. 17. When Muhammad was too shy to tell his dinner guests to leave, Allah stepped in with a special revelation that should make everyone wonder whether Muhammad's revelations really have anything to do with God. 18. The Qur'an declares that Christians find Muhammad mentioned in our scriptures. Yet our scriptures call Muhammad an antichrist. 19. In the Qur'an, Allah promises to kill Muhammad by severing his aorta if Muhammad invents a false revelation. When Muhammad died, he said he could feel his aorta being severed. 20. The Qur'an contains a prophecy that wasn't fulfilled. 21. The Qur'an presents a test for divine inspiration, but fails the test. 22. The central argument for the inspiration of the Qur'an is the "Argument from Literary Excellence," which is absurd on multiple levels. 23. The author of the Qur'an doesn't know that Miriam, the sister of Aaron and Moses, is a different person from Mary, the mother of Jesus (because their names are the same in Arabic). 24. The Qur'an claims that Alexander the Great and Aesop were devout Muslims. 25. Allah promises to protect the Qur'an from corruption, but the Qur'an has been corrupted (by Muslim standards). 26. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is Allah's eternal Word. Yet Allah repeatedly changes his eternal mind about his eternal Word via abrogation. 27. The Qur'an is missing at least two verses in which Allah commands grown women to breastfeed grown men in order to prevent sexual misconduct. 28. The Qur'an contains numerous false stories that were plagiarized from other sources. 29. Muhammad allowed his followers to hire prostitutes. 30. The Qur'an allows Muslim men to have up to four wives at a time. But Muhammad received a special revelation giving him (and him alone) the right to break the four-wife limit. 31. Muhammad had sex with a prepubescent nine-year-old girl named Aisha. 32. The Qur'an allows Muslim men to beat their wives into submission. 33. Islam allows Muslim men to rape their female captives and slave-girls. 34. Muhammad married the divorced wife of his own adopted son (after Muhammad caused the divorce), and the Qur'an offers an absurd defense of Muhammad's actions. 35. When Muhammad's wife Sauda became fat and unattractive, Muhammad intended to divorce her. Sauda had to relinquish some of her marital rights to avoid being abandoned. 36. After Muhammad got caught having sex with his slave girl in the bed of one of his wives, he swore that he would stop having sex with his slave-girl. Allah ordered him to break that oath. 37. Muhammad claimed that women are less intelligent and less moral than men. 38. When Muhammad's wives asked why he was giving special privileges to Aisha, he justified his actions by saying that he received revelations while wearing Aisha's dress! 39. According to the Qur'an, Allah has no love for unbelievers. 40. According to the Qur'an, Allah is the "best of deceivers." 41. According to Muhammad, Allah wants people to sin, and he threatens us with annihilation if we refuse to sin. 42. Since Allah would destroy us for not sinning, the true savior of humanity, according to Islam, is Satan, who tempts human beings to sin and therefore protects us from being destroyed. 43. Muhammad didn't know whether he would go to heaven or hell when he died. 44. Islam teaches that Allah will punish Jews and Christians in hell for the sins of Muslims. 45. Muhammad promises his followers a paradise in which Allah will bless them with eternal erections so that they can continually deflower their virgins. 46. Islam affirms the inspiration, preservation, and authority of the Jewish and Christian scriptures, yet Islam contradicts these scriptures on a fundamental level. 47. Islam claims to respect and honor Jesus, yet it portrays him as a complete failure. 48. Muslims believe that the Gospel has been corrupted. But according to Islam, part of the Gospel was corrupted by Allah himself. 49. Islam reverses the Gospel by having the guilty Judas die on behalf of the innocent Jesus, rather than the innocent Jesus dying on behalf of sinners. 50. Christianity is confirmed by Jesus' resurrection from the dead. Since Islam contradicts Christianity, and has no comparable confirmation from God, we must reject Islam. Don’t get me started on some of absurd teachings in the Hadiths. Interesting. Thanks. A few of them, we all already know, such as his marriage to Aisha, who was a little girl. But, as a few of us have already mentioned earlier, it was a different time & different culture. Muslims deny that the Quran had confused Miriam the sister of Moses, with Our Lady, saying "sister of Aaron," was a Title to her, being a child of temple priest. I don’t see how “it was a different time & different culture” justifies it in anyway. Besides according to Islam Muhammad is held to be an example for all times.
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Post by clusium on Feb 10, 2023 23:58:26 GMT
Interesting. Thanks. A few of them, we all already know, such as his marriage to Aisha, who was a little girl. But, as a few of us have already mentioned earlier, it was a different time & different culture. Muslims deny that the Quran had confused Miriam the sister of Moses, with Our Lady, saying "sister of Aaron," was a Title to her, being a child of temple priest. I don’t see how “it was a different time & different culture” justifies it in anyway. Besides according to Islam Muhammad is held to be an example for all times. When you research marriage in the ancient world, you will find that they pretty much did a lot of things that we abhor in our own day & age. Eg: Royalty used to marry close relatives in order to keep the bloodline pure. We now know today that incestuous relations only leads to deformations & disabilities.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 0:03:29 GMT
Romeo was about 17 years old, & Juliet was about 14. In other words, they were teenagers, which very typically date. Juliet was under 14. So was the Virgin Mary.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 0:06:19 GMT
I don’t see how “it was a different time & different culture” justifies it in anyway. Besides according to Islam Muhammad is held to be an example for all times. When you research marriage in the ancient world, you will find that they pretty much did a lot of things that we abhor in our own day & age. Eg: Royalty used to marry close relatives in order to keep the bloodline pure. We now know today that incestuous relations only leads to deformations & disabilities. Have much actual ancient world marriage have you studied and Abraham who married his sister and her slave was a desert tribal chieftain just like Mohammad, not a king.
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djorno
Sophomore
@djorno
Posts: 327
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Post by djorno on Feb 11, 2023 0:19:59 GMT
I don’t see how “it was a different time & different culture” justifies it in anyway. Besides according to Islam Muhammad is held to be an example for all times. When you research marriage in the ancient world, you will find that they pretty much did a lot of things that we abhor in our own day & age. Eg: Royalty used to marry close relatives in order to keep the bloodline pure. We now know today that incestuous relations only leads to deformations & disabilities. Yes, so incestuous relations are objectively and demonstrably wrong. As is a fully grown adult having sexual relations with a physically and mentally immature girl. Your argument is no different to saying Muhammad owning slaves can’t be held against him because it was acceptable in his time & culture. We know a lot of things were acceptable in the past, that doesn’t make them any more moral or right. It was common for people in the ancient world to sacrifice their babies to idols. Just because they didn’t know any better doesn’t mean it wasn’t objectively evil. Besides drinking alcohol and gambling were permitted activities in the Arab world before Islam. Yet Muhammad did away with them. Why didn’t he do the same for child marriage?
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Post by clusium on Feb 11, 2023 0:26:42 GMT
When you research marriage in the ancient world, you will find that they pretty much did a lot of things that we abhor in our own day & age. Eg: Royalty used to marry close relatives in order to keep the bloodline pure. We now know today that incestuous relations only leads to deformations & disabilities. Yes, so incestuous relations are objectively and demonstrably wrong. As is a fully grown adult having sexual relations with a physically and mentally immature girl. Your argument is no different to saying Muhammad owning slaves can’t be held against him because it was acceptable in his time & culture. We know a lot of things were acceptable in the past, that doesn’t make them any more moral or right. It was common for people in the ancient world to sacrifice their babies to idols. Just because they didn’t know any better doesn’t mean it wasn’t objectively evil. Besides drinking alcohol and gambling were permitted activities in the Arab world before Islam. Yet Muhammad did away with them. Why didn’t he do the same for child marriage? In centuries past, people did not understand that children "physically & mentally immature." They viewed children as "miniature adults." It is precisely because of the mistakes of people in the past, with regards to thinks such as love & marriage, that we know things such as incest & pedophilia, etc., are wrong.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 0:29:22 GMT
Yes, so incestuous relations are objectively and demonstrably wrong. As is a fully grown adult having sexual relations with a physically and mentally immature girl. Your argument is no different to saying Muhammad owning slaves can’t be held against him because it was acceptable in his time & culture. We know a lot of things were acceptable in the past, that doesn’t make them any more moral or right. It was common for people in the ancient world to sacrifice their babies to idols. Just because they didn’t know any better doesn’t mean it wasn’t objectively evil. Besides drinking alcohol and gambling were permitted activities in the Arab world before Islam. Yet Muhammad did away with them. Why didn’t he do the same for child marriage? In centuries past, people did not understand that children "physically & mentally immature." They viewed children as "miniature adults." It is precisely because of the mistakes of people in the past, with regards to thinks such as love & marriage, that we know things such as incest & pedophilia, etc., are wrong. How do you know this?
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Post by clusium on Feb 11, 2023 0:47:36 GMT
In centuries past, people did not understand that children "physically & mentally immature." They viewed children as "miniature adults." It is precisely because of the mistakes of people in the past, with regards to thinks such as love & marriage, that we know things such as incest & pedophilia, etc., are wrong. How do you know this? Something I learned back in high school (a little over 30 years ago).
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djorno
Sophomore
@djorno
Posts: 327
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Post by djorno on Feb 11, 2023 0:51:01 GMT
Yes, so incestuous relations are objectively and demonstrably wrong. As is a fully grown adult having sexual relations with a physically and mentally immature girl. Your argument is no different to saying Muhammad owning slaves can’t be held against him because it was acceptable in his time & culture. We know a lot of things were acceptable in the past, that doesn’t make them any more moral or right. It was common for people in the ancient world to sacrifice their babies to idols. Just because they didn’t know any better doesn’t mean it wasn’t objectively evil. Besides drinking alcohol and gambling were permitted activities in the Arab world before Islam. Yet Muhammad did away with them. Why didn’t he do the same for child marriage? In centuries past, people did not understand that children "physically & mentally immature." They viewed children as "miniature adults." It is precisely because of the mistakes of people in the past, with regards to thinks such as love & marriage, that we know things such as incest & pedophilia, etc., are wrong. Are you aware that there is a sahih hadith where Muhammad initially objects to a marriage proposal from Abu Bakr for the hand of Muhammad’s daughter Fatima for Bakr’s son Ali, Citing her young age? “Narrated 'Abdullah bin Buraidah: It was narrated from 'Abdullah bin Buraidah that his father said: "Abu Bakr and 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, proposed marriage to Fatimah but the Messenger of Allah said: 'She is young.' Then 'Ali proposed marriage to her and he married her to him."Sunan an-Nasa’i 3221 sunnah.com/nasai:3221Muhammad eventually gave his blessing to the marriage….Ali was 23 years old, Fatima was 9, yes older than Aisha.
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Post by clusium on Feb 11, 2023 0:55:09 GMT
In centuries past, people did not understand that children "physically & mentally immature." They viewed children as "miniature adults." It is precisely because of the mistakes of people in the past, with regards to thinks such as love & marriage, that we know things such as incest & pedophilia, etc., are wrong. Are you aware that there is a sahih hadith where Muhammad initially objects to a marriage proposal from Abu Bakr for the hand of Muhammad’s daughter Fatima for Bakr’s son Ali, Citing her young age? “Narrated 'Abdullah bin Buraidah: It was narrated from 'Abdullah bin Buraidah that his father said: "Abu Bakr and 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, proposed marriage to Fatimah but the Messenger of Allah said: 'She is young.' Then 'Ali proposed marriage to her and he married her to him."Sunan an-Nasa’i 3221 sunnah.com/nasai:3221Muhammad eventually gave his blessing to the marriage….Ali was 23 years old, Fatima was 9, yes older than Aisha. Interesting. Actually, that is how the Sunni-Shia split, after Muhammad died: The Sunnis believed that Aisha's father should take over from Muhammad, while the Shias believed that Fatimah's husband should have taken over. One more detail: Shias venerate Fatimah in exactly the same way that we Catholic & Orthodox Christians venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 0:58:00 GMT
1. When Muhammad began receiving revelations, his first impression of these revelations was that they were demonic. 2. Muhammad was so traumatized by his encounter with "Gabriel" that he repeatedly tried to commit suicide by hurling himself off a cliff. 3. According to Muslim sources, Muhammad once delivered a revelation from the devil (the "Satanic Verses"). 4. Muhammad claimed that he was a victim of a magic spell that gave him delusional thoughts and false beliefs. 5. Islam promotes idolatry (e.g., bowing down to the Kaaba and kissing the black stone). 6. Islam promotes pagan rituals (e.g., the pilgrimage to Mecca). 7. Islam deifies Muhammad by requiring unconditional obedience to him and by requiring Muslims to talk to him during their daily prayers. 8. After leaving Mecca, Muhammad supported his religion by robbing people. 9. Muhammad ordered his followers to torture a man named Kinana to find out where some money was hidden. Muhammad then had Kinana killed, and took his wife for himself. 10. Muhammad commanded his followers to kill critics of Islam. 11. Muhammad ordered his followers to kill apostates, even if they had good reasons for leaving Islam. 12. The Qur'an commands Muslims to violently subjugate Jews and Christians. 13. The Qur'an claims that stars are missiles that Allah uses to shoot demons. 14. The Qur'an claims that the sun sets in a pool of murky water. 15. Muhammad's teachings about personal hygiene would lead to death if Muslims took them seriously. 16. Muhammad claimed that Gabriel explained to him why children look like one parent or the other. Gabriel's answer is completely false. 17. When Muhammad was too shy to tell his dinner guests to leave, Allah stepped in with a special revelation that should make everyone wonder whether Muhammad's revelations really have anything to do with God. 18. The Qur'an declares that Christians find Muhammad mentioned in our scriptures. Yet our scriptures call Muhammad an antichrist. 19. In the Qur'an, Allah promises to kill Muhammad by severing his aorta if Muhammad invents a false revelation. When Muhammad died, he said he could feel his aorta being severed. 20. The Qur'an contains a prophecy that wasn't fulfilled. 21. The Qur'an presents a test for divine inspiration, but fails the test. 22. The central argument for the inspiration of the Qur'an is the "Argument from Literary Excellence," which is absurd on multiple levels. 23. The author of the Qur'an doesn't know that Miriam, the sister of Aaron and Moses, is a different person from Mary, the mother of Jesus (because their names are the same in Arabic). 24. The Qur'an claims that Alexander the Great and Aesop were devout Muslims. 25. Allah promises to protect the Qur'an from corruption, but the Qur'an has been corrupted (by Muslim standards). 26. Muslims believe that the Qur'an is Allah's eternal Word. Yet Allah repeatedly changes his eternal mind about his eternal Word via abrogation. 27. The Qur'an is missing at least two verses in which Allah commands grown women to breastfeed grown men in order to prevent sexual misconduct. 28. The Qur'an contains numerous false stories that were plagiarized from other sources. 29. Muhammad allowed his followers to hire prostitutes. 30. The Qur'an allows Muslim men to have up to four wives at a time. But Muhammad received a special revelation giving him (and him alone) the right to break the four-wife limit. 31. Muhammad had sex with a prepubescent nine-year-old girl named Aisha. 32. The Qur'an allows Muslim men to beat their wives into submission. 33. Islam allows Muslim men to rape their female captives and slave-girls. 34. Muhammad married the divorced wife of his own adopted son (after Muhammad caused the divorce), and the Qur'an offers an absurd defense of Muhammad's actions. 35. When Muhammad's wife Sauda became fat and unattractive, Muhammad intended to divorce her. Sauda had to relinquish some of her marital rights to avoid being abandoned. 36. After Muhammad got caught having sex with his slave girl in the bed of one of his wives, he swore that he would stop having sex with his slave-girl. Allah ordered him to break that oath. 37. Muhammad claimed that women are less intelligent and less moral than men. 38. When Muhammad's wives asked why he was giving special privileges to Aisha, he justified his actions by saying that he received revelations while wearing Aisha's dress! 39. According to the Qur'an, Allah has no love for unbelievers. 40. According to the Qur'an, Allah is the "best of deceivers." 41. According to Muhammad, Allah wants people to sin, and he threatens us with annihilation if we refuse to sin. 42. Since Allah would destroy us for not sinning, the true savior of humanity, according to Islam, is Satan, who tempts human beings to sin and therefore protects us from being destroyed. 43. Muhammad didn't know whether he would go to heaven or hell when he died. 44. Islam teaches that Allah will punish Jews and Christians in hell for the sins of Muslims. 45. Muhammad promises his followers a paradise in which Allah will bless them with eternal erections so that they can continually deflower their virgins. 46. Islam affirms the inspiration, preservation, and authority of the Jewish and Christian scriptures, yet Islam contradicts these scriptures on a fundamental level. 47. Islam claims to respect and honor Jesus, yet it portrays him as a complete failure. 48. Muslims believe that the Gospel has been corrupted. But according to Islam, part of the Gospel was corrupted by Allah himself. 49. Islam reverses the Gospel by having the guilty Judas die on behalf of the innocent Jesus, rather than the innocent Jesus dying on behalf of sinners. 50. Christianity is confirmed by Jesus' resurrection from the dead. Since Islam contradicts Christianity, and has no comparable confirmation from God, we must reject Islam. Don’t get me started on some of absurd teachings in the Hadiths. A book of religious, historical, and political myth, just like the Bible.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 0:59:07 GMT
Something I learned back in high school (a little over 30 years ago). There has been 30 years of advances in archaeology and history on the subject.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 0:59:38 GMT
Are you aware that there is a sahih hadith where Muhammad initially objects to a marriage proposal from Abu Bakr for the hand of Muhammad’s daughter Fatima for Bakr’s son Ali, Citing her young age? “Narrated 'Abdullah bin Buraidah: It was narrated from 'Abdullah bin Buraidah that his father said: "Abu Bakr and 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, proposed marriage to Fatimah but the Messenger of Allah said: 'She is young.' Then 'Ali proposed marriage to her and he married her to him."Sunan an-Nasa’i 3221 sunnah.com/nasai:3221Muhammad eventually gave his blessing to the marriage….Ali was 23 years old, Fatima was 9, yes older than Aisha. Interesting. Actually, that is how the Sunni-Shia split, after Muhammad died: The Sunnis believed that Aisha's father should take over from Muhammad, while the Shias believed that Fatimah's husband should have taken over. One more detail: Shias venerate Fatimah in exactly the same way that we Catholic & Orthodox Christians venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary.Nope.
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djorno
Sophomore
@djorno
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Post by djorno on Feb 11, 2023 1:00:45 GMT
Are you aware that there is a sahih hadith where Muhammad initially objects to a marriage proposal from Abu Bakr for the hand of Muhammad’s daughter Fatima for Bakr’s son Ali, Citing her young age? “Narrated 'Abdullah bin Buraidah: It was narrated from 'Abdullah bin Buraidah that his father said: "Abu Bakr and 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, proposed marriage to Fatimah but the Messenger of Allah said: 'She is young.' Then 'Ali proposed marriage to her and he married her to him."Sunan an-Nasa’i 3221 sunnah.com/nasai:3221Muhammad eventually gave his blessing to the marriage….Ali was 23 years old, Fatima was 9, yes older than Aisha. Interesting. Actually, that is how the Sunni-Shia split, after Muhammad died: The Sunnis believed that Aisha's father should take over from Muhammad, while the Shias believed that Fatimah's husband should have taken over. One more detail: Shias venerate Fatimah in exactly the same way that we Catholic & Orthodox Christians venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary. Yes screams of hypocrisy. Muhammad seemed to have a habit of one rule for himself and another for everybody else. Did you also know that Muhammad permitted Muslim men to have up to 4 wives but yet forbid Ali of taking a second wife while he was still married to his daughter Fatima? Red flags all over the place.
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Post by clusium on Feb 11, 2023 1:02:37 GMT
Something I learned back in high school (a little over 30 years ago). There has been 30 years of advances in archaeology and history on the subject. Yeah okay. Of course, even you pointed out that Abraham & Sarah were brother & sister.
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Post by clusium on Feb 11, 2023 1:03:17 GMT
Interesting. Actually, that is how the Sunni-Shia split, after Muhammad died: The Sunnis believed that Aisha's father should take over from Muhammad, while the Shias believed that Fatimah's husband should have taken over. One more detail: Shias venerate Fatimah in exactly the same way that we Catholic & Orthodox Christians venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary. Nope. Yep.
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