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Post by clusium on Feb 11, 2023 1:04:40 GMT
Interesting. Actually, that is how the Sunni-Shia split, after Muhammad died: The Sunnis believed that Aisha's father should take over from Muhammad, while the Shias believed that Fatimah's husband should have taken over. One more detail: Shias venerate Fatimah in exactly the same way that we Catholic & Orthodox Christians venerate the Blessed Virgin Mary. Yes screams of hypocrisy. Muhammad seemed to have a habit of one rule for himself and another for everybody else. Did you also know that Muhammad permitted Muslim men to have up to 4 wives but yet forbid Ali of taking a second wife while he was still married to his daughter Fatima? Red flags all over the place. Well, I'm a Christian. Therefore, I reject Muhammad as a prophet anyway.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 1:13:58 GMT
There has been 30 years of advances in archaeology and history on the subject. Yeah okay. Of course, even you pointed out that Abraham & Sarah were brother & sister. Genesis 20:1-18 ESV From there Abraham journeyed toward the territory of the Negeb and lived between Kadesh and Shur; and he sojourned in Gerar. And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, âShe is my sister.â And Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah. But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him, âBehold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife.â Now Abimelech had not approached her. So he said, âLord, will you kill an innocent people? Did he not himself say to me, âShe is my sisterâ? And she herself said, âHe is my brother.â In the integrity of my heart and the innocence of my hands I have done this.â ... ***** Genesis 12:10-20 New International Version Abram in Egypt 10 Now there was a famine in the land, and Abram went down to Egypt to live there for a while because the famine was severe. 11 As he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai, âI know what a beautiful woman you are. 12 When the Egyptians see you, they will say, âThis is his wife.â Then they will kill me but will let you live. 13 Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you.â
14 When Abram came to Egypt, the Egyptians saw that Sarai was a very beautiful woman. 15 And when Pharaohâs officials saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh, and she was taken into his palace. 16 He treated Abram well for her sake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, male and female servants, and camels. 17 But the Lord inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abramâs wife Sarai. 18 So Pharaoh summoned Abram. âWhat have you done to me?â he said. âWhy didnât you tell me she was your wife? 19 Why did you say, âShe is my sister,â so that I took her to be my wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and go!â 20 Then Pharaoh gave orders about Abram to his men, and they sent him on his way, with his wife and everything he had. **** Abraham is a beta.
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Post by clusium on Feb 11, 2023 1:14:59 GMT
Yeah okay. Of course, even you pointed out that Abraham & Sarah were brother & sister. Genesis 20:1-18 ESV From there Abraham journeyed toward the territory of the Negeb and lived between Kadesh and Shur; and he sojourned in Gerar. And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, âShe is my sister.â And Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah. But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him, âBehold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife.â Now Abimelech had not approached her. So he said, âLord, will you kill an innocent people? Did he not himself say to me, âShe is my sisterâ? And she herself said, âHe is my brother.â In the integrity of my heart and the innocence of my hands I have done this.â ... ***** Genesis 12:10-20 New International Version Abram in Egypt 10 Now there was a famine in the land, and Abram went down to Egypt to live there for a while because the famine was severe. 11 As he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai, âI know what a beautiful woman you are. 12 When the Egyptians see you, they will say, âThis is his wife.â Then they will kill me but will let you live. 13 Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you.â
14 When Abram came to Egypt, the Egyptians saw that Sarai was a very beautiful woman. 15 And when Pharaohâs officials saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh, and she was taken into his palace. 16 He treated Abram well for her sake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, male and female servants, and camels. 17 But the Lord inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abramâs wife Sarai. 18 So Pharaoh summoned Abram. âWhat have you done to me?â he said. âWhy didnât you tell me she was your wife? 19 Why did you say, âShe is my sister,â so that I took her to be my wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and go!â 20 Then Pharaoh gave orders about Abram to his men, and they sent him on his way, with his wife and everything he had. **** Abraham is a beta. Riveting!!!
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 1:15:54 GMT
Yep. In their mariology, she is not the Mother of God, nor impregnated by God.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 1:16:29 GMT
Genesis 20:1-18 ESV From there Abraham journeyed toward the territory of the Negeb and lived between Kadesh and Shur; and he sojourned in Gerar. And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, âShe is my sister.â And Abimelech king of Gerar sent and took Sarah. But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night and said to him, âBehold, you are a dead man because of the woman whom you have taken, for she is a man's wife.â Now Abimelech had not approached her. So he said, âLord, will you kill an innocent people? Did he not himself say to me, âShe is my sisterâ? And she herself said, âHe is my brother.â In the integrity of my heart and the innocence of my hands I have done this.â ... ***** Genesis 12:10-20 New International Version Abram in Egypt 10 Now there was a famine in the land, and Abram went down to Egypt to live there for a while because the famine was severe. 11 As he was about to enter Egypt, he said to his wife Sarai, âI know what a beautiful woman you are. 12 When the Egyptians see you, they will say, âThis is his wife.â Then they will kill me but will let you live. 13 Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you.â
14 When Abram came to Egypt, the Egyptians saw that Sarai was a very beautiful woman. 15 And when Pharaohâs officials saw her, they praised her to Pharaoh, and she was taken into his palace. 16 He treated Abram well for her sake, and Abram acquired sheep and cattle, male and female donkeys, male and female servants, and camels. 17 But the Lord inflicted serious diseases on Pharaoh and his household because of Abramâs wife Sarai. 18 So Pharaoh summoned Abram. âWhat have you done to me?â he said. âWhy didnât you tell me she was your wife? 19 Why did you say, âShe is my sister,â so that I took her to be my wife? Now then, here is your wife. Take her and go!â 20 Then Pharaoh gave orders about Abram to his men, and they sent him on his way, with his wife and everything he had. **** Abraham is a beta. Riveting!!! And obviously youâve never bothered reading it before.
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Post by clusium on Feb 11, 2023 1:22:13 GMT
Yep. In their mariology, she is not the Mother of God, nor impregnated by God. Never said that she was. I said that Fatimah receives the same kind of devotion from Shias that we Catholic & Orthodox Christians give to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Shia Devotion To Fatimah
On that note, the Blessed Virgin Mary, actually receives far more adulation & exultation FROM MUSLIMS (both Sunni & Shia, alike), than she does from the average Protestant.
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Post by clusium on Feb 11, 2023 1:23:47 GMT
And obviously youâve never bothered reading it before. Yeah, I've read it before.
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Post by paulslaugh on Feb 11, 2023 1:35:53 GMT
In their mariology, she is not the Mother of God, nor impregnated by God. Never said that she was. I said that Fatimah receives the same kind of devotion from Shias that we Catholic & Orthodox Christians give to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Shia Devotion To Fatimah
On that note, the Blessed Virgin Mary, actually receives far more adulation & exultation FROM MUSLIMS (both Sunni & Shia, alike), than she does from the average Protestant. I know. In all likelihood a form of pre-Nicenen Christianity highly influenced the desert tribes that became united them as a nation of like believing people who could stand up to the powerful Christian Byzantine Empire. Christian icons were welcome in the Kaâba as a legit religion along with the pagan idols. According to myth, Mohammadâs uncle was a Christian and supported his nephewâs new faith. Itâs possible the first âMuslimsâ never realized theyâre werenât still Christians. The Ebionites, one of the first Churches thatâs mentioned in the Bible, held similar views regarding Jesus, not unlike current Muslim views. They were certainly adjacent to the Arabian Peninsula and went somewhere after the Romans cleaned out the Jews in 2nd century. They could be the seed faith that later morphed into Islam.
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Post by clusium on Feb 11, 2023 2:23:36 GMT
Never said that she was. I said that Fatimah receives the same kind of devotion from Shias that we Catholic & Orthodox Christians give to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Shia Devotion To Fatimah
On that note, the Blessed Virgin Mary, actually receives far more adulation & exultation FROM MUSLIMS (both Sunni & Shia, alike), than she does from the average Protestant. I know. In all likelihood a form of pre-Nicenen Christianity highly influenced the desert tribes that became united them as a nation of like believing people who could stand up to the powerful Christian Byzantine Empire. Christian icons were welcome in the Kaâba as a legit religion along with the pagan idols. According to myth, Mohammadâs uncle was a Christian and supported his nephewâs new faith. Itâs possible the first âMuslimsâ never realized theyâre werenât still Christians. The Ebionites, one of the first Churches thatâs mentioned in the Bible, held similar views regarding Jesus, not unlike current Muslim views. They were certainly adjacent to the Arabian Peninsula and went somewhere after the Romans cleaned out the Jews in 2nd century. They could be the seed faith that later morphed into Islam. Yeah, it is quite possible that Muhammad's uncle & a few other of his relatives were originally Christian. Khadijah, Muhammad's first wife, & mother of the afore-mentioned Fatimah, was supposedly Christian. (On a minor note, she was just the opposite of Aisha. Whereas Aisha was decades younger than Muhammad, Khadijah was at least a couple of decades older than he was).
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djorno
Sophomore
@djorno
Posts: 327
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Post by djorno on Feb 11, 2023 19:07:54 GMT
Yes screams of hypocrisy. Muhammad seemed to have a habit of one rule for himself and another for everybody else. Did you also know that Muhammad permitted Muslim men to have up to 4 wives but yet forbid Ali of taking a second wife while he was still married to his daughter Fatima? Red flags all over the place. Well, I'm a Christian. Therefore, I reject Muhammad as a prophet anyway. Just saw this video. Thought Iâd share here.
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 11, 2023 22:03:15 GMT
I think he was a con artist, in the same way that the Apostle Paul and Joseph Smith were, except that they werenât admitted pedophiles.
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