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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Feb 17, 2023 20:26:17 GMT
Movie is out now. Figured i'd get the traditional spoiler thread up and running for those interested in discussing the film, spoilers and all.
Enjoy?
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Feb 18, 2023 11:54:23 GMT
So has anyone seen this yet?
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Post by kuatorises on Feb 18, 2023 13:20:46 GMT
Yeah, soooooooo..... I didn't like it. The trailer is better than the movie. It reminded me of Prometheus in that sense. I didn't like Shang Chi or Thor 4, but they were different kinds of dislike. I hated Thor 4. It was a huge disappointment and angered me how dumb it was. Shang Chi was boring and uninteresting to me. Very anticlimactic.
That's how I feel about Ant-Man. There were some laughs, but there wasn't a single memorable action sequence or character. Kang has potential, but he just sat up in his throne room most of the time. When he did finally do something, it was maybe 5 a minute fight? The version on Loki was a significantly more interesting character and he only shows up at the end of the last episode. The ball was dropped there.
Too many races, species, tech and colors just for the sake of it. I know they were trying to show us "another world", but they got too caught up in it. There was too much of it all. We can't understand each other? We got a drink that will fix that. Oh look an animal/ship hybrid thingy that that randomly splits in two or living buildings with built in guns that can fly too. Janet cuts off an alien's arm? No problem, he grows a new one in about 3 seconds. There was a solution for every problem. It gets silly.
Rudd is funny and likeable, but offered nothing else in this movie.
I thought it was lame how his family was giving him shit for not breaking the law for the sake of it. Dude is an ex-con and was generally a loser. Turned himself around, but they give him grief over not breaking the rules? What? I don't like Pym and his family. They are like, "Trouble is fun, bahahaha!" Phase 4 has created this problem where "heroes" are doing whatever they want (and getting away with it) all while taking pot shots at cops/government. Every fuck up the heroes have done in Phase 4 is significantly worse than anything any LEO or politician has done. Lang's daughter being responsible for them being in the Quantumn Realm to begin with is the latest example.There's no consequences for these people, but derp derp "ThE CopS!!!"
The dick joke about Modok was pretty damn funny, but aside from that the character was the epitome of cringe-worthy. He looked ridiculous. The coffee shop guy calling him Spiderman also got me good.
Oh, and 64 year old Michelle Pfeiffer being an expert in hand-to-hand combat and easily dispatching aliens is ridiculous. I almost got my eyes stuck in the back of my head I rolled them so hard when she was easily disarming and dispatching aliens with nothing more than her hands.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 18, 2023 15:53:24 GMT
I liked it, but I see why it isn't everyone's cup of tea. Ant-Man isn't the character you'd expect for this kind of story, and Ant-Man movies have traditionally been low stakes affairs on a (pardon the pun) smaller scale. So it's almost a lose/lose from the audience's perspective.
I'd say the movie's biggest flaw is that it isn't as dark as it wants to be. Whether that was Fiege's or corporate's call, we may never know. But this film is essentially a moral quandary of the highest order, dressed up as a silly off-world romp. The question this film asks is one of order vs chaos, 'freedom' vs 'civility.' A question as old as human civilization itself. Is a culture, a land, a people, better off under supervision and guidance of a higher power, or better off left to its own devices? Your perspective on this topic will greatly inform your views on the villain of the story.
Though it isn't required, it helps to have seen the introduction to this character on the Loki Disney+ show. There you get a better understanding of what's going on. On that show, a much more jovial version of Kang explains that he has taken control of all timelines in order to prevent war and chaos from spreading throughout the multiverse. (Spoilers ahead if you haven't seen the show) That version is killed, allowing the chaos to begin spreading. Again, what you see in Quantumania is a more driven, more warlike version of the character trying to control the spread of chaos by dominating the world he currently inhabits (Quantum Realm). He was exiled by his peers, but through Janet's brief visions, we have little to no insight as to the benevolence of his peers compared to Kang. Considering his warning to Scott, it's safe to assume this Kang believed himself to be the lesser evil, though I suppose most villains do.
Helping the rebellion, preventing his escape; in the moment, these were the morally right decisions. Steve Rodgers would've done the same. But once more, the question this story is asking is, is that right? Is that truly what's best for everyone? How close is Utilitarianism to fascism? It's a question left hanging at the end of this movie, and I personally appreciated how they came back to it at the end, after all the bells and whistles.
The green screen vomit was a lot to take in, though I didn't mind it as much as others. Mostly I thought it took away from the story by default, since it was clear much more was spent on the visuals rather than the presentation of the philosophical concepts. Then again, it could be argued that the bright lights sufficiently outshined the story so as not to beat the audience over the head with high minded concepts. I would've leaned into the philosophy heavier; I have more faith in the audience than the filmmakers do, I suppose.
Specifics:
The visuals were fun and inventive, if a bit much at times. There were plenty of clever ideas, the universal translator ooze was great. All of those little side characters had their own unique charm.
It was good to see ants play a significant role in the third act, it is an Ant-Man movie after all. Doubly great that the original Ant-Man got to shine. Though I have to say the action scenes overall left a lot to be desired. Not many memorable fight scenes or clever use of powers on display, but the probability field stuff was neat.
Way too much MODOK/Darren. Would've made for a great cameo, not a major part of the climax. You could've eliminated 80% of his screen time and still got the two or three best laughs from his scenes.
For someone who has allegedly defeated the Avengers in other timelines, Kang was undone fairly easily. Giant-Man kicks down some buildings, a bunch of ants overwhelm his forcefield, and he eventually fights Scott Lang of all people, h2h to a virtual stalemate before Wasp blasts him a few times. This guy conquered multiple timelines? It's a minor nitpick, I guess. Power levels fluctuate to suit the current moment in the narrative, it happens in every movie.
Going forward with every write up, I think I'll have a category devoted to scenes that shouldn't have been in the trailer. There are two that come to mind for Quantumania. Scott saying, "I don't have to win, we both just have to lose." It's very clearly the climax of the film and should never have been included in the trailer. The second is the Bill Murray reveal. If they had kept his involvement under wraps, or at the very least not revealed who he was playing, his introduction is 1000% better. But we all saw it in the trailer, so as the camera is following him into the scene we're all thinking, "Here comes Bill Murray."
Overall I liked the movie quite a bit, despite its flaws. It isn't a top tier MCU flick, that's for sure. The story beats are admittedly paint by number, but the visual presentation and the questions regarding morality and civics lift it above the silliness it veils itself in. Fittingly for this franchise's namesake, you just have to be willing to look closer.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 18, 2023 16:02:23 GMT
Admittedly, I do think that it would've been a stronger ending if Scott and Hope had been trapped in the Quantum Realm in order to defeat Exiled Kang. We know that Cassie will work tirelessly to find a way to get them back, sending more Probes in, but for now they have to stay separated.
Which ties into how every time Scott does the right thing for the bigger world, it always costs him and separates him from Cassie. Only this time, Cassie realizes it was partly her fault for goading him into heroics again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2023 18:16:01 GMT
Yeah, soooooooo..... I didn't like it. The trailer is better than the movie. It reminded me of Prometheus in that sense. I didn't like Shang Chi or Thor 4, but they were different kinds of dislike. I hated Thor 4. It was a huge disappointment and angered me how dumb it was. Shang Chi was boring and uninteresting to me. Very anticlimactic. That's how I feel about Ant-Man. There were some laughs, but there wasn't a single memorable action sequence or character. Kang has potential, but he just sat up in his throne room most of the time. When he did finally do something, it was maybe 5 a minute fight? The version on Loki was a significantly more interesting character and he only shows up at the end of the last episode. The ball was dropped there. Too many races, species, tech and colors just for the sake of it. I know they were trying to show us "another world", but they got too caught up in it. There was too much of it all. We can't understand each other? We got a drink that will fix that. Oh look an animal/ship hybrid thingy that that randomly splits in two or living buildings with built in guns that can fly too. Janet cuts off an alien's arm? No problem, he grows a new one in about 3 seconds. There was a solution for every problem. It gets silly. Rudd is funny and likeable, but offered nothing else in this movie. I thought it was lame how his family was giving him shit for not breaking the law for the sake of it. Dude is an ex-con and was generally a loser. Turned himself around, but they give him grief over not breaking the rules? What? I don't like Pym and his family. They are like, "Trouble is fun, bahahaha!" Phase 4 has created this problem where "heroes" are doing whatever they want (and getting away with it) all while taking pot shots at cops/government. Every fuck up the heroes have done in Phase 4 is significantly worse than anything any LEO or politician has done. Lang's daughter being responsible for them being in the Quantumn Realm to begin with is the latest example.There's no consequences for these people, but derp derp "ThE CopS!!!" The dick joke about Modok was pretty damn funny, but aside from that the character was the epitome of cringe-worthy. He looked ridiculous. The coffee shop guy calling him Spiderman also got me good. Oh, and 64 year old Michelle Pfeiffer being an expert in hand-to-hand combat and easily dispatching aliens is ridiculous. I almost got my eyes stuck in the back of my head I rolled them so hard when she was easily disarming and dispatching aliens with nothing more than her hands. I haven’t seen Ant Man 3 yet but I’m glad I finally found someone else who disliked Shang Chi. Boring and uninteresting is right! Jesus what an overrated movie! I actually prefer Thor 4. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2023 18:29:46 GMT
I liked it, but I see why it isn't everyone's cup of tea. Ant-Man isn't the character you'd expect for this kind of story, and Ant-Man movies have traditionally been low stakes affairs on a (pardon the pun) smaller scale. So it's almost a lose/lose from the audience's perspective. I'd say the movie's biggest flaw is that it isn't as dark as it wants to be. Whether that was Fiege's or corporate's call, we may never know. But this film is essentially a moral quandary of the highest order, dressed up as a silly off-world romp. The question this film asks is one of order vs chaos, 'freedom' vs 'civility.' A question as old as human civilization itself. Is a culture, a land, a people, better off under supervision and guidance of a higher power, or better off left to its own devices? Your perspective on this topic will greatly inform your views on the villain of the story. Though it isn't required, it helps to have seen the introduction to this character on the Loki Disney+ show. There you get a better understanding of what's going on. On that show, a much more jovial version of Kang explains that he has taken control of all timelines in order to prevent war and chaos from spreading throughout the multiverse. (Spoilers ahead if you haven't seen the show) That version is killed, allowing the chaos to begin spreading. Again, what you see in Quantumania is a more driven, more warlike version of the character trying to control the spread of chaos by dominating the world he currently inhabits (Quantum Realm). He was exiled by his peers, but through Janet's brief visions, we have little to no insight as to the benevolence of his peers compared to Kang. Considering his warning to Scott, it's safe to assume this Kang believed himself to be the lesser evil, though I suppose most villains do. Helping the rebellion, preventing his escape; in the moment, these were the morally right decisions. Steve Rodgers would've done the same. But once more, the question this story is asking is, is that right? Is that truly what's best for everyone? How close is Utilitarianism to fascism? It's a question left hanging at the end of this movie, and I personally appreciated how they came back to it at the end, after all the bells and whistles. The green screen vomit was a lot to take in, though I didn't mind it as much as others. Mostly I thought it took away from the story by default, since it was clear much more was spent on the visuals rather than the presentation of the philosophical concepts. Then again, it could be argued that the bright lights sufficiently outshined the story so as not to beat the audience over the head with high minded concepts. I would've leaned into the philosophy heavier; I have more faith in the audience than the filmmakers do, I suppose. Specifics: The visuals were fun and inventive, if a bit much at times. There were plenty of clever ideas, the universal translator ooze was great. All of those little side characters had their own unique charm. It was good to see ants play a significant role in the third act, it is an Ant-Man movie after all. Doubly great that the original Ant-Man got to shine. Though I have to say the action scenes overall left a lot to be desired. Not many memorable fight scenes or clever use of powers on display, but the probability field stuff was neat. Way too much MODOK/Darren. Would've made for a great cameo, not a major part of the climax. You could've eliminated 80% of his screen time and still got the two or three best laughs from his scenes. For someone who has allegedly defeated the Avengers in other timelines, Kang was undone fairly easily. Giant-Man kicks down some buildings, a bunch of ants overwhelm his forcefield, and he eventually fights Scott Lang of all people, h2h to a virtual stalemate before Wasp blasts him a few times. This guy conquered multiple timelines? It's a minor nitpick, I guess. Power levels fluctuate to suit the current moment in the narrative, it happens in every movie. Going forward with every write up, I think I'll have a category devoted to scenes that shouldn't have been in the trailer. There are two that come to mind for Quantumania. Scott saying, "I don't have to win, we both just have to lose." It's very clearly the climax of the film and should never have been included in the trailer. The second is the Bill Murray reveal. If they had kept his involvement under wraps, or at the very least not revealed who he was playing, his introduction is 1000% better. But we all saw it in the trailer, so as the camera is following him into the scene we're all thinking, "Here comes Bill Murray." Overall I liked the movie quite a bit, despite its flaws. It isn't a top tier MCU flick, that's for sure. The story beats are admittedly paint by number, but the visual presentation and the questions regarding morality and civics lift it above the silliness it veils itself in. Fittingly for this franchise's namesake, you just have to be willing to look closer. Excellent review! Sounds like they at least try to do interesting things with this and is worthy of more respect than Black Widow or some of the other cookie cutter MCU entries. |
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Post by kuatorises on Feb 18, 2023 18:48:20 GMT
Yeah, soooooooo..... I didn't like it. The trailer is better than the movie. It reminded me of Prometheus in that sense. I didn't like Shang Chi or Thor 4, but they were different kinds of dislike. I hated Thor 4. It was a huge disappointment and angered me how dumb it was. Shang Chi was boring and uninteresting to me. Very anticlimactic. That's how I feel about Ant-Man. There were some laughs, but there wasn't a single memorable action sequence or character. Kang has potential, but he just sat up in his throne room most of the time. When he did finally do something, it was maybe 5 a minute fight? The version on Loki was a significantly more interesting character and he only shows up at the end of the last episode. The ball was dropped there. Too many races, species, tech and colors just for the sake of it. I know they were trying to show us "another world", but they got too caught up in it. There was too much of it all. We can't understand each other? We got a drink that will fix that. Oh look an animal/ship hybrid thingy that that randomly splits in two or living buildings with built in guns that can fly too. Janet cuts off an alien's arm? No problem, he grows a new one in about 3 seconds. There was a solution for every problem. It gets silly. Rudd is funny and likeable, but offered nothing else in this movie. I thought it was lame how his family was giving him shit for not breaking the law for the sake of it. Dude is an ex-con and was generally a loser. Turned himself around, but they give him grief over not breaking the rules? What? I don't like Pym and his family. They are like, "Trouble is fun, bahahaha!" Phase 4 has created this problem where "heroes" are doing whatever they want (and getting away with it) all while taking pot shots at cops/government. Every fuck up the heroes have done in Phase 4 is significantly worse than anything any LEO or politician has done. Lang's daughter being responsible for them being in the Quantumn Realm to begin with is the latest example.There's no consequences for these people, but derp derp "ThE CopS!!!" The dick joke about Modok was pretty damn funny, but aside from that the character was the epitome of cringe-worthy. He looked ridiculous. The coffee shop guy calling him Spiderman also got me good. Oh, and 64 year old Michelle Pfeiffer being an expert in hand-to-hand combat and easily dispatching aliens is ridiculous. I almost got my eyes stuck in the back of my head I rolled them so hard when she was easily disarming and dispatching aliens with nothing more than her hands. I haven’t seen Ant Man 3 yet but I’m glad I finally found someone else who disliked Shang Chi. Boring and uninteresting is right! Jesus what an overrated movie! I actually prefer Thor 4. It was a big nothing burger. I didn't care about anything happening at all. There wasn't a action scene in that movie that wasn't anticlimactic. I felt the same way about Ant Mang, except it managed to make me laugh a few times. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2023 19:03:24 GMT
I haven’t seen Ant Man 3 yet but I’m glad I finally found someone else who disliked Shang Chi. Boring and uninteresting is right! Jesus what an overrated movie! I actually prefer Thor 4. It was a big nothing burger. I didn't care about anything happening at all. There wasn't an action scene in that movie that wasn't anticlimactic. I felt the same way about Ant Mang, except it managed to make me laugh a few times. Shang Chi is one of the only MCU movies I have zero desire to ever watch again. The praise is just baffling to me. The character is so dull and has no arc whatsoever. It’s a martial arts character who has only one semi-decent martial arts fight in the first act and then a climax about big cgi monsters. The plot is contrived and cliched. And holy shit the humor is the most obnoxious in the MCU- Aquafina and the drunk actor from IM3? Fuck that movie! |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 18, 2023 19:08:05 GMT
Excellent review! Sounds like they at least try to do interesting things with this and is worthy of more respect than Black Widow or some of the other cookie cutter MCU entries. Your mileage may vary. I don't disagree with many of the observations made by others. It isn't an incredibly complex presentation, nor is it filled with amazing fight choreography. But they do try to insert a narrative with significant stakes into what, up until now, has been a franchise (or rather sub-franchise) built on fluff. And it isn't just me inferring more than I'm supposed to. Scott has an inner monologue at the end, wondering if he did the right thing by not letting Kang escape. They quickly make a joke out of it, because Ant-Man gonna Ant-Man, but it's there; and the mid-credit scene reveals the looming threat. Don't go in expecting an episode of Black Mirror or anything, but it isn't as bad as its RT rating suggests. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2023 19:11:33 GMT
Excellent review! Sounds like they at least try to do interesting things with this and is worthy of more respect than Black Widow or some of the other cookie cutter MCU entries. Your mileage may vary. I don't disagree with many of the observations made by others. It isn't an incredibly complex presentation, nor is it filled with amazing fight choreography. But they do try to insert a narrative with significant stakes into what, up until now, has been a franchise (or rather sub-franchise) built on fluff. And it isn't just me inferring more than I'm supposed to. Scott has an inner monologue at the end, wondering if he did the right thing by not letting Kang escape. They quickly make a joke out of it, because Ant-Man gonna Ant-Man, but it's there; and the mid-credit scene reveals the looming threat. Don't go in expecting an episode of Black Mirror or anything, but it isn't as bad as its RT rating suggests. How’s the world building? This is kind of my main attraction to the movie based on the trailers. Obviously I’m not expecting rock solid sci fi mythology and I’m guessing it’s all fairly superficial but I do enjoy seeing well realized fantasy worlds on screen. |
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Post by Lux on Feb 18, 2023 19:38:33 GMT
I liked it, but I see why it isn't everyone's cup of tea. Ant-Man isn't the character you'd expect for this kind of story, and Ant-Man movies have traditionally been low stakes affairs on a (pardon the pun) smaller scale. So it's almost a lose/lose from the audience's perspective. I'd say the movie's biggest flaw is that it isn't as dark as it wants to be. Whether that was Fiege's or corporate's call, we may never know. But this film is essentially a moral quandary of the highest order, dressed up as a silly off-world romp. The question this film asks is one of order vs chaos, 'freedom' vs 'civility.' A question as old as human civilization itself. Is a culture, a land, a people, better off under supervision and guidance of a higher power, or better off left to its own devices? Your perspective on this topic will greatly inform your views on the villain of the story. Though it isn't required, it helps to have seen the introduction to this character on the Loki Disney+ show. There you get a better understanding of what's going on. On that show, a much more jovial version of Kang explains that he has taken control of all timelines in order to prevent war and chaos from spreading throughout the multiverse. (Spoilers ahead if you haven't seen the show) That version is killed, allowing the chaos to begin spreading. Again, what you see in Quantumania is a more driven, more warlike version of the character trying to control the spread of chaos by dominating the world he currently inhabits (Quantum Realm). He was exiled by his peers, but through Janet's brief visions, we have little to no insight as to the benevolence of his peers compared to Kang. Considering his warning to Scott, it's safe to assume this Kang believed himself to be the lesser evil, though I suppose most villains do. Helping the rebellion, preventing his escape; in the moment, these were the morally right decisions. Steve Rodgers would've done the same. But once more, the question this story is asking is, is that right? Is that truly what's best for everyone? How close is Utilitarianism to fascism? It's a question left hanging at the end of this movie, and I personally appreciated how they came back to it at the end, after all the bells and whistles. The green screen vomit was a lot to take in, though I didn't mind it as much as others. Mostly I thought it took away from the story by default, since it was clear much more was spent on the visuals rather than the presentation of the philosophical concepts. Then again, it could be argued that the bright lights sufficiently outshined the story so as not to beat the audience over the head with high minded concepts. I would've leaned into the philosophy heavier; I have more faith in the audience than the filmmakers do, I suppose. Specifics: The visuals were fun and inventive, if a bit much at times. There were plenty of clever ideas, the universal translator ooze was great. All of those little side characters had their own unique charm. It was good to see ants play a significant role in the third act, it is an Ant-Man movie after all. Doubly great that the original Ant-Man got to shine. Though I have to say the action scenes overall left a lot to be desired. Not many memorable fight scenes or clever use of powers on display, but the probability field stuff was neat. Way too much MODOK/Darren. Would've made for a great cameo, not a major part of the climax. You could've eliminated 80% of his screen time and still got the two or three best laughs from his scenes. For someone who has allegedly defeated the Avengers in other timelines, Kang was undone fairly easily. Giant-Man kicks down some buildings, a bunch of ants overwhelm his forcefield, and he eventually fights Scott Lang of all people, h2h to a virtual stalemate before Wasp blasts him a few times. This guy conquered multiple timelines? It's a minor nitpick, I guess. Power levels fluctuate to suit the current moment in the narrative, it happens in every movie. Going forward with every write up, I think I'll have a category devoted to scenes that shouldn't have been in the trailer. There are two that come to mind for Quantumania. Scott saying, "I don't have to win, we both just have to lose." It's very clearly the climax of the film and should never have been included in the trailer. The second is the Bill Murray reveal. If they had kept his involvement under wraps, or at the very least not revealed who he was playing, his introduction is 1000% better. But we all saw it in the trailer, so as the camera is following him into the scene we're all thinking, "Here comes Bill Murray." Overall I liked the movie quite a bit, despite its flaws. It isn't a top tier MCU flick, that's for sure. The story beats are admittedly paint by number, but the visual presentation and the questions regarding morality and civics lift it above the silliness it veils itself in. Fittingly for this franchise's namesake, you just have to be willing to look closer. Can't keep on relying on powers fluctuating at any given moment excuse either Kang is an Avengers level threat or you want Paul Rudd to be the unlikely hero. On this occasion Kang would probably not stand much of a chance against a literal giant although he should if the hype isn't shit, haven't watched the movie yet. They'll never be able to top Thanos because he was a skilled large fighter Kang is nothing more than a techie useless without his tech. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 19, 2023 1:00:50 GMT
Can't keep on relying on powers fluctuating at any given moment excuse either Kang is an Avengers level threat or you want Paul Rudd to be the unlikely hero. On this occasion Kang would probably not stand much of a chance against a literal giant although he should if the hype isn't shit, haven't watched the movie yet. They'll never be able to top Thanos because he was a skilled large fighter Kang is nothing more than a techie useless without his tech. They've been doing it as long as they've been making action movies, I'm not expecting that to change anytime soon. And this is just one situation featuring one version of the character, there are countless others. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 19, 2023 1:02:25 GMT
Your mileage may vary. I don't disagree with many of the observations made by others. It isn't an incredibly complex presentation, nor is it filled with amazing fight choreography. But they do try to insert a narrative with significant stakes into what, up until now, has been a franchise (or rather sub-franchise) built on fluff. And it isn't just me inferring more than I'm supposed to. Scott has an inner monologue at the end, wondering if he did the right thing by not letting Kang escape. They quickly make a joke out of it, because Ant-Man gonna Ant-Man, but it's there; and the mid-credit scene reveals the looming threat. Don't go in expecting an episode of Black Mirror or anything, but it isn't as bad as its RT rating suggests. How’s the world building? This is kind of my main attraction to the movie based on the trailers. Obviously I’m not expecting rock solid sci fi mythology and I’m guessing it’s all fairly superficial but I do enjoy seeing well realized fantasy worlds on screen. It's minimal. They travel to a few funky places, they don't really take time to explain anything. It's basically giving you a glimpse of things to come. |
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Post by Power Ranger on Feb 19, 2023 1:57:21 GMT
Admittedly, I do think that it would've been a stronger ending if Scott and Hope had been trapped in the Quantum Realm in order to defeat Exiled Kang. We know that Cassie will work tirelessly to find a way to get them back, sending more Probes in, but for now they have to stay separated. Which ties into how every time Scott does the right thing for the bigger world, it always costs him and separates him from Cassie. Only this time, Cassie realizes it was partly her fault for goading him into heroics again. You are a fucking champion for bothering to find anything worthwhile in this bullshit. 👏🏻 |
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Post by Power Ranger on Feb 19, 2023 1:59:09 GMT
How’s the world building? This is kind of my main attraction to the movie based on the trailers. Obviously I’m not expecting rock solid sci fi mythology and I’m guessing it’s all fairly superficial but I do enjoy seeing well realized fantasy worlds on screen. It's minimal. They travel to a few funky places, they don't really take time to explain anything. It's basically giving you a glimpse of things to come. Things to come? The Quantum realm? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2023 2:29:42 GMT
Just found out Hank and Janet survive the movie. Killing characters may be a cliched way to raise the drama/stakes but it surprises me they didn’t go that way here when they have not one but two older mentor characters who I assume don’t have much of a future in the MCU. Kang should’ve took of them out.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 19, 2023 2:35:48 GMT
Admittedly, I do think that it would've been a stronger ending if Scott and Hope had been trapped in the Quantum Realm in order to defeat Exiled Kang. We know that Cassie will work tirelessly to find a way to get them back, sending more Probes in, but for now they have to stay separated. Which ties into how every time Scott does the right thing for the bigger world, it always costs him and separates him from Cassie. Only this time, Cassie realizes it was partly her fault for goading him into heroics again. You are a fucking champion for bothering to find anything worthwhile in this bullshit. 👏🏻 You don't need the movie to spoonfeed you all its themes and messages the way Chris Nolan would, to see anything in there |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Feb 19, 2023 4:12:38 GMT
It's minimal. They travel to a few funky places, they don't really take time to explain anything. It's basically giving you a glimpse of things to come. Things to come? The Quantum realm? Potential worlds/alien races to explore going forward, who knows. The societal structure of the Quantum realm itself isn't the focal point of the movie, that much is clear. |
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Post by kuatorises on Feb 19, 2023 13:13:48 GMT
I liked it, but I see why it isn't everyone's cup of tea. Ant-Man isn't the character you'd expect for this kind of story, and Ant-Man movies have traditionally been low stakes affairs on a (pardon the pun) smaller scale. So it's almost a lose/lose from the audience's perspective. I'd say the movie's biggest flaw is that it isn't as dark as it wants to be. Whether that was Fiege's or corporate's call, we may never know. But this film is essentially a moral quandary of the highest order, dressed up as a silly off-world romp. The question this film asks is one of order vs chaos, 'freedom' vs 'civility.' A question as old as human civilization itself. Is a culture, a land, a people, better off under supervision and guidance of a higher power, or better off left to its own devices? Your perspective on this topic will greatly inform your views on the villain of the story. Though it isn't required, it helps to have seen the introduction to this character on the Loki Disney+ show. There you get a better understanding of what's going on. On that show, a much more jovial version of Kang explains that he has taken control of all timelines in order to prevent war and chaos from spreading throughout the multiverse. (Spoilers ahead if you haven't seen the show) That version is killed, allowing the chaos to begin spreading. Again, what you see in Quantumania is a more driven, more warlike version of the character trying to control the spread of chaos by dominating the world he currently inhabits (Quantum Realm). He was exiled by his peers, but through Janet's brief visions, we have little to no insight as to the benevolence of his peers compared to Kang. Considering his warning to Scott, it's safe to assume this Kang believed himself to be the lesser evil, though I suppose most villains do. Helping the rebellion, preventing his escape; in the moment, these were the morally right decisions. Steve Rodgers would've done the same. But once more, the question this story is asking is, is that right? Is that truly what's best for everyone? How close is Utilitarianism to fascism? It's a question left hanging at the end of this movie, and I personally appreciated how they came back to it at the end, after all the bells and whistles. The green screen vomit was a lot to take in, though I didn't mind it as much as others. Mostly I thought it took away from the story by default, since it was clear much more was spent on the visuals rather than the presentation of the philosophical concepts. Then again, it could be argued that the bright lights sufficiently outshined the story so as not to beat the audience over the head with high minded concepts. I would've leaned into the philosophy heavier; I have more faith in the audience than the filmmakers do, I suppose. Specifics: The visuals were fun and inventive, if a bit much at times. There were plenty of clever ideas, the universal translator ooze was great. All of those little side characters had their own unique charm. It was good to see ants play a significant role in the third act, it is an Ant-Man movie after all. Doubly great that the original Ant-Man got to shine. Though I have to say the action scenes overall left a lot to be desired. Not many memorable fight scenes or clever use of powers on display, but the probability field stuff was neat. Way too much MODOK/Darren. Would've made for a great cameo, not a major part of the climax. You could've eliminated 80% of his screen time and still got the two or three best laughs from his scenes. For someone who has allegedly defeated the Avengers in other timelines, Kang was undone fairly easily. Giant-Man kicks down some buildings, a bunch of ants overwhelm his forcefield, and he eventually fights Scott Lang of all people, h2h to a virtual stalemate before Wasp blasts him a few times. This guy conquered multiple timelines? It's a minor nitpick, I guess. Power levels fluctuate to suit the current moment in the narrative, it happens in every movie. Going forward with every write up, I think I'll have a category devoted to scenes that shouldn't have been in the trailer. There are two that come to mind for Quantumania. Scott saying, "I don't have to win, we both just have to lose." It's very clearly the climax of the film and should never have been included in the trailer. The second is the Bill Murray reveal. If they had kept his involvement under wraps, or at the very least not revealed who he was playing, his introduction is 1000% better. But we all saw it in the trailer, so as the camera is following him into the scene we're all thinking, "Here comes Bill Murray." Overall I liked the movie quite a bit, despite its flaws. It isn't a top tier MCU flick, that's for sure. The story beats are admittedly paint by number, but the visual presentation and the questions regarding morality and civics lift it above the silliness it veils itself in. Fittingly for this franchise's namesake, you just have to be willing to look closer. Kang is a mass murderer and dictator, I don't think "Is taking him out the right thing to do" comes into play here.
I don't think your nitpicking at all, it's a very valid complaint. I've seen marketing or comments from review outlets saying stuff like, "Kang is a Thanos-level threat."Based on what we've seen, that's a ridiculous comment. Two versions of him have been killed now and he's supposed to be the big bad for whenever the next version of The Avengers are seen teaming up again.
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