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Post by clusium on Mar 1, 2023 18:01:33 GMT
Yes legal marriage is an invention of man ie the goverment to redefine marriage. Thats partly why Christian should oppose it. Will you stop talking about Christians as a homogeneous block of thought... Repeated research shows that the majority of Catholics support same sex marriage. The Vatican is catching up with the Catholic laity and clergy, but it's a slow process... Gay marriage, women priests, and married priests will happen in the near future. No they won't.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2023 18:04:44 GMT
Will you stop talking about Christians as a homogeneous block of thought... Repeated research shows that the majority of Catholics support same sex marriage. The Vatican is catching up with the Catholic laity and clergy, but it's a slow process... Gay marriage, women priests, and married priests will happen in the near future. No they won't. Oh yes they will... And there is nothing you, wildly out of touch with the overwhelming majority Catholic laity and clergy can do about it, except throw your toys out of your pram and have a hissy fit. Away with you to your twin obsessions of homophobia and serial killers.
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Post by clusium on Mar 1, 2023 18:18:52 GMT
Oh yes they will... And there is nothing you, wildly out of touch with the overwhelming majority Catholic laity and clergy can do about it, except throw your toys out of your pram and have a hissy fit. Away with you to your twin obsessions of homophobia and serial killers. The majority of Catholics are faithful to Church doctrine. And even if they are not, the Catholic Church does not change its doctrine. It follows Christ, not individual whims.
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Post by djorno on Mar 1, 2023 18:20:31 GMT
Yes legal marriage is an invention of man ie the goverment to redefine marriage. Thats partly why Christian should oppose it. NOW...you have just conceded that man is dealing with his own invention. So, he, therefore, is not perverting God's design. And from that(?) you assert, "Thats partly why Christian should oppose it." No reasoning, no nothin.'. We've established that legal marriage is man's invention. We see that Christians don't object to the legality of many other sins. You can't offer any coherent reason why any Christian should oppose legalizing the inclusion of gay people into this invention of man. How is deviating from God's invention of marriage specifically being a union between a man and woman alone to include same-sex couples NOT perverting God's design? The only thing man is doing is misapplying the term marriage to relationships that are not actually marriages. It's like saying a man can be a woman, oh wait they're pushing that deranged idea too.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 1, 2023 18:22:55 GMT
Good, that is a positive start. But they should be denied the protection of the legal agreement of marriage? I've already given my answer there. Marriage is between one man & one woman (not related). In your religion.The law of the land is different than your religion. You and your religion DO NOT get to dictate secular law.Edit: "Marriage is between one man & one woman (not related)." Tell that to the Mormons.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2023 18:25:59 GMT
Oh yes they will... And there is nothing you, wildly out of touch with the overwhelming majority Catholic laity and clergy can do about it, except throw your toys out of your pram and have a hissy fit. Away with you to your twin obsessions of homophobia and serial killers. The majority of Catholics are faithful to Church doctrine. And even if they are not, the Catholic Church does not change its doctrine. It follows Christ, not individual whims. The Catholic Church has constantly changed for the last 2,000 years ya clown... It is always changing. Priests used to be married. Do you know or care why that changed? Early Catholics used to share contraception advice. It wasn't until the mid 20th century that contraception became an issue. And now it isn't an issue for the vast majority of Catholics who practice contraception again. Catholic Mass is different in every Parish. In some places voodoo aspects are included in Catholic Mass. It's called 'enriching the liturgy' The Catechism isn't a static set of rules. It evolves. It is time, place, and culture dependant, flexible. You just don't get it, at all. Nor do you understand the interplay between the Vatican, the clergy, and the laity. You exist in an ignorant bubble, with your fingers jammed in your ears so as to hear nothing, and your arsehole clenched tight. If you wanted to have a conversation about the shifting evolution of Catholic theology, and social philosophy through time, we could do that... But you aren't interested.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2023 18:41:15 GMT
Oh yes they will... And there is nothing you, wildly out of touch with the overwhelming majority Catholic laity and clergy can do about it, except throw your toys out of your pram and have a hissy fit. Away with you to your twin obsessions of homophobia and serial killers. The majority of Catholics are faithful to Church doctrine. And even if they are not, the Catholic Church does not change its doctrine. It follows Christ, not individual whims. They're going to split your church. I don't know when. I'm their mortal enemy and for that reason they don't confide their plans in me. They have their demons on the Internet and in other media trying their best to make it look as if they've won already, but they still have a few more years to go. You'll probably be called an apostate for not adapting to the ungodly changes which they are imposing on the world, but the ones calling you an apostate will be the real apostates.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 1, 2023 18:52:06 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2023 19:27:40 GMT
The majority of Catholics are faithful to Church doctrine. And even if they are not, the Catholic Church does not change its doctrine. It follows Christ, not individual whims. They're going to split your church. I don't know when. I'm their mortal enemy and for that reason they don't confide their plans in me. They have their demons on the Internet and in other media trying their best to make it look as if they've won already, but they still have a few more years to go. You'll probably be called an apostate for not adapting to the ungodly changes which they are imposing on the world, but the ones calling you an apostate will be the real apostates. Christ on a bike... Don't encourage Clusium. They are fucked up enough without you dipping your oar in with your flat Earther, 3rd temple conspiracy pish. PS. The 'Temple' was built three times in the Old Testament... This would be the 4th temple you keep banging on about.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 1, 2023 19:40:42 GMT
Oh yes they will... And there is nothing you, wildly out of touch with the overwhelming majority Catholic laity and clergy can do about it, except throw your toys out of your pram and have a hissy fit. Away with you to your twin obsessions of homophobia and serial killers. The majority of Catholics are faithful to Church doctrine. And even if they are not, the Catholic Church does not change its doctrine. It follows Christ, not individual whims. Can you explain then why the catholic church has changed it's stance on things after Christ died, I mean he can't change his mind, please also explain the doctrine of papal infallibility.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Mar 1, 2023 19:43:27 GMT
They're going to split your church. I don't know when. I'm their mortal enemy and for that reason they don't confide their plans in me. They have their demons on the Internet and in other media trying their best to make it look as if they've won already, but they still have a few more years to go. You'll probably be called an apostate for not adapting to the ungodly changes which they are imposing on the world, but the ones calling you an apostate will be the real apostates. Christ on a bike... Don't encourage Clusium. They are fucked up enough without you dipping your oar in with your flat Earther, 3rd temple conspiracy pish. PS. The 'Temple' was built three times in the Old Testament... This would be the 4th temple you keep banging on about. You can go right to hell. Yes, that's the hell you want people to think doesn't exist. Who do you think you're fooling anyway?
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Post by gadreel on Mar 1, 2023 19:43:45 GMT
Are you intentionally missing the point?? My claim is that: Your stance is that homosexuality is wrong, and that believing it is wrong is a good thing and that homosexuals should be celibate. You normalise this stance, and with it you are contributing to normalising dislilke of homosexuality, this is analogous to rape culture normalising rape. You disagree, please tell me why normalisation of rape is bad (which you have agreed with), but your normalisation of the rejection of homosexuals is not. Rape culture encourages rape by normalising is, why does your normalising of dislike of homosexuals not encourage violence against homosexuals? I fail to see what one has to do with the other (especially since the Catechism of the Catholic Church gave a much stronger condemnation of rape than it did with homosexuality). Im done. Get someone to help you out in real life with this, you are no different in this matter than a German who scoffs at the Jews in 1930's Germany, your implicit acceptance of othering and demonising homosexuals is directly responsible for allowing others to assault and murder them. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 1, 2023 19:44:16 GMT
I fail to see what one has to do with the other (especially since the Catechism of the Catholic Church gave a much stronger condemnation of rape than it did with homosexuality). gadreel , I would say this response is positive proof that clusium is intentionally missing the point. I don't see how you could have described the issue any clearer. They have to, otherwise they have to update their belief set.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 1, 2023 19:46:37 GMT
Because two people are in love and are expressing their love. How can that not make sense? What if a brother and sister were in love and having a romantic relationahip? Would that make sense to you also? Incest is a biological anathema, it is in no way connected to homosexuality, just like when Erjen tries to use beastiality, all this betrays is your small mindedness and ignorance.
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Post by clusium on Mar 1, 2023 19:47:40 GMT
I've already given my answer there. Marriage is between one man & one woman (not related). In your religion.The law of the land is different than your religion. You and your religion DO NOT get to dictate secular law.Edit: "Marriage is between one man & one woman (not related)." Tell that to the Mormons. Okay. Dear Mormons: Marriage is between one man & one woman (not related.
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Post by Isapop on Mar 1, 2023 19:50:38 GMT
NOW...you have just conceded that man is dealing with his own invention. So, he, therefore, is not perverting God's design. And from that(?) you assert, "Thats partly why Christian should oppose it." No reasoning, no nothin.'. We've established that legal marriage is man's invention. We see that Christians don't object to the legality of many other sins. You can't offer any coherent reason why any Christian should oppose legalizing the inclusion of gay people into this invention of man. How is deviating from God's invention of marriage specifically being a union between a man and woman alone to include same-sex couples NOT perverting God's design? Ah, since your argument has fallen flat, you're just going to try the same one again. You: Man is perverting God's invention. Me: This is legal marriage. That's man's invention that he has been adjusting for centuries. You: Yes, legal marriage is an invention of man. Me: So, then, man changing his own invention is not interfering with God's invention. You: How is deviating from God's invention not a perversion. Me: It's man's invention. God's invention still stands as it has always been....round and round. And you don't address the fact that Christians accept that other sins, like adultery and sex between 2 men or 2 women, that would also violate God's designs are perfectly legal. You just single out gay marriage.So, now it's just the use of the word that bothers you? If we just had the exact same legal arrangement, but made up a whole new word for it, then you'd have no problem? Let's see... "pleerage"! "Will you pleery me?" We just got pleeried!" Is that what all your fretting is about? If we changed the word and nothing else, you'd rest easy?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2023 19:54:31 GMT
Christ on a bike... Don't encourage Clusium. They are fucked up enough without you dipping your oar in with your flat Earther, 3rd temple conspiracy pish. PS. The 'Temple' was built three times in the Old Testament... This would be the 4th temple you keep banging on about. You can go right to hell. Yes, that's the hell you want people to think doesn't exist. Who do you think you're fooling anyway? Our survey says... Most Catholics don't believe in Hell as a place... How can it for Catholics? That would contradict our belief that God's mercy is infinite 🤷🏼♀️ We are more a purgatory people. Most Catholics don't believe in Satan as an entity either, nor that demons exist... They are allegories.
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Post by clusium on Mar 1, 2023 20:00:16 GMT
The majority of Catholics are faithful to Church doctrine. And even if they are not, the Catholic Church does not change its doctrine. It follows Christ, not individual whims. The Catholic Church has constantly changed for the last 2,000 years ya clown... It is always changing. Priests used to be married. Do you know or care why that changed? Early Catholics used to share contraception advice. It wasn't until the mid 20th century that contraception became an issue. And now it isn't an issue for the vast majority of Catholics who practice contraception again. Catholic Mass is different in every Parish. In some places voodoo aspects are included in Catholic Mass. It's called 'enriching the liturgy' The Catechism isn't a static set of rules. It evolves. It is time, place, and culture dependant, flexible. You just don't get it, at all. Nor do you understand the interplay between the Vatican, the clergy, and the laity. You exist in an ignorant bubble, with your fingers jammed in your ears so as to hear nothing, and your arsehole clenched tight. If you wanted to have a conversation about the shifting evolution of Catholic theology, and social philosophy through time, we could do that... But you aren't interested. It did not, nor has it ever, changed its doctrines. Does Catholic Doctrine Ever Change?
Does Church Teaching Ever Change?Doctrinal Change/Unchanging Doctrine
And while yes, Catholic priests used to marry (in Orthodoxy they still can, unless they are Bishops, etc). However, they had sound reasons for changing that rule. Why Priests Cannot Marry
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Post by clusium on Mar 1, 2023 20:02:45 GMT
The majority of Catholics are faithful to Church doctrine. And even if they are not, the Catholic Church does not change its doctrine. It follows Christ, not individual whims. Can you explain then why the catholic church has changed it's stance on things after Christ died, I mean he can't change his mind, please also explain the doctrine of papal infallibility. Papal Infallibility does not teach the the Pope sins. Just that the Pope teaches sound Christian doctrine.
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Post by gadreel on Mar 1, 2023 20:03:08 GMT
Christ on a bike... Don't encourage Clusium. They are fucked up enough without you dipping your oar in with your flat Earther, 3rd temple conspiracy pish. PS. The 'Temple' was built three times in the Old Testament... This would be the 4th temple you keep banging on about. You can go right to hell. Yes, that's the hell you want people to think doesn't exist. Who do you think you're fooling anyway? A good devout Christian speaks. Jesus weeps.
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