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Post by Cat on Mar 2, 2023 17:28:08 GMT
Depends what you think I'm looking for. I'm not saying they won't or can't complain. I'm just asking why you think it's a given they'll complain when they already didn't once. Because the SJW/Woke ideology didn't exist back in the early 90's, or at least not in the same way it exists today. Audiences and especially companies did not feel pressured to hit a diversity quota for products back then. Shows with a pure white cast didn't get attacked the way they do nowadays. They certainly didn't face calls of cancellation and what not. Women could be used as sexual eye-candy in shows without complaints, gender roles were still acceptable, etc. The inverse is true as well. You didn't have organized mass communities of incels or red-pill trolls back then. There were no coordinated efforts of review bombing a product or doxxing people. Etc. Let's not pretend that the socio-political climate in the 90's is anywhere close to what it is at the moment. Okay, but it seemed to me they did a decent enough job at preaching tolerance that skin-colour diversity largely went the way of the wayside. The moral center of the show were people who're different getting a long. It seems like a strange thing to complain about when half the show is people using the things that people fear about them most to make them special.
Ultimately TV will follow the money, but people who try to do better with regard to diversity and gender roles were probably raised on shows like this.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 2, 2023 17:34:37 GMT
Because the SJW/Woke ideology didn't exist back in the early 90's, or at least not in the same way it exists today. Audiences and especially companies did not feel pressured to hit a diversity quota for products back then. Shows with a pure white cast didn't get attacked the way they do nowadays. They certainly didn't face calls of cancellation and what not. Women could be used as sexual eye-candy in shows without complaints, gender roles were still acceptable, etc. The inverse is true as well. You didn't have organized mass communities of incels or red-pill trolls back then. There were no coordinated efforts of review bombing a product or doxxing people. Etc. Let's not pretend that the socio-political climate in the 90's is anywhere close to what it is at the moment. Okay, but it seemed to me they did a decent enough job at preaching tolerance that skin-colour diversity largely went the way of the wayside. The moral center of the show were people who're different getting a long. It seems like a strange thing to complain about when half the show is people using the things that people fear about them most to make them special.
Ultimately TV will follow the money, but people who try to do better with regard to diversity and gender roles were probably raised on shows like this.
Do you really think people are not going to complain if the X-men was an almost purely caucasian cast? Heck, why do you think they're being called The Mutants instead of the X-Men?
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Post by Cat on Mar 2, 2023 17:42:30 GMT
Okay, but it seemed to me they did a decent enough job at preaching tolerance that skin-colour diversity largely went the way of the wayside. The moral center of the show were people who're different getting a long. It seems like a strange thing to complain about when half the show is people using the things that people fear about them most to make them special.
Ultimately TV will follow the money, but people who try to do better with regard to diversity and gender roles were probably raised on shows like this.
Do you really think people are not going to complain if the X-men was an almost purely caucasian cast? Heck, why do you think they're being called The Mutants instead of the X-Men? I don't know. I didn't think they had complained before, even with the movies. Whether or not there's social media to carry it further, people will always complain. That didn't just pop up in the last decade. I did hear one instance in a documentary of a black woman noting she felt disappointed by Storm. As a black woman, she felt Storm didn't have more to do. As a white guy, I agree. I thought Storm was kinda crap. Even Halle Berry's remarked that she didn't go deep into the character and didn't have much interest in returning.
Basically it depends if you feel if what you have to complain about is worth complaining about. It's easy to lump someone in like that with SJW's ang woke mobs, but if you actually listen to her like an individual, maybe you'll see she has a point. After all, it would be from a different perspective.
As for why they're being called The Mutants, I'm still on the fence as to whether that's real or a joke. I think it's a terrible name. If they had an X in it at least it might be connectable to the property that is the X-Men.
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Post by charzhino on Mar 2, 2023 17:46:08 GMT
And if the MCU stays true to how the X-Men were depicted in TAS or comics, then you'll get SJW/woke people crying that there isn't enough diversity. The lineup and casting probably won't be "true" to the comics. I fully expect Marvel to do a modernized team and honestly that's probably for the best. There's a lot of Mutant characters that either haven't been fully explored or adapted for the screen. And it would be nice to see a new fresh cast of characters for once instead of getting Wolverine for the 20th time. How will it be for the best? The same people who constantly complained that Foxs X-men were never true to the comics will be hypocrites if they have no problem with major changes to the lineup and cast.
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Post by charzhino on Mar 2, 2023 17:49:05 GMT
Do you really think people are not going to complain if the X-men was an almost purely caucasian cast? Heck, why do you think they're being called The Mutants instead of the X-Men? I don't know. I didn't think they had complained before, even with the movies. Whether or not there's social media to carry it further, people will always complain. That didn't just pop up in the last decade. I did hear one instance in a documentary of a black woman noting she felt disappointed by Storm. As a black woman, she felt Storm didn't have more to do. As a white guy, I agree. I thought Storm was kinda crap. Even Halle Berry's remarked that she didn't go deep into the character and didn't have much interest in returning.
Basically it depends if you feel if what you have to complain about is worth complaining about. It's easy to lump someone in like that with SJW's ang woke mobs, but if you actually listen to her like an individual, maybe you'll see she has a point. After all, it would be from a different perspective.
As for why they're being called The Mutants, I'm still on the fence as to whether that's real or a joke. I think it's a terrible name. If they had an X in it at least it might be connectable to the property that is the X-Men.
Storm was under-used 100%. And they needed to have a true black female to play her, not Halle Berry whose lightskinned. Calling it The Mutants is deliberate. One of the Marvel execs came out a while ago and said the X-Men name is sexist because it doesnt include women. Thats the reason theyre using ''Mutants'', until proven otherwise.
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Post by Cat on Mar 2, 2023 17:57:28 GMT
I don't know. I didn't think they had complained before, even with the movies. Whether or not there's social media to carry it further, people will always complain. That didn't just pop up in the last decade. I did hear one instance in a documentary of a black woman noting she felt disappointed by Storm. As a black woman, she felt Storm didn't have more to do. As a white guy, I agree. I thought Storm was kinda crap. Even Halle Berry's remarked that she didn't go deep into the character and didn't have much interest in returning.
Basically it depends if you feel if what you have to complain about is worth complaining about. It's easy to lump someone in like that with SJW's ang woke mobs, but if you actually listen to her like an individual, maybe you'll see she has a point. After all, it would be from a different perspective.
As for why they're being called The Mutants, I'm still on the fence as to whether that's real or a joke. I think it's a terrible name. If they had an X in it at least it might be connectable to the property that is the X-Men.
Storm was under-used 100%. And they needed to have a true black female to play her, not Halle Berry whose lightskinned. Calling it The Mutants is deliberate. One of the Marvel execs came out a while ago and said the X-Men name is sexist because it doesnt include women. Thats the reason theyre using ''Mutants'', until proven otherwise. An X in there somewhere would make a lot of difference. It's a tacky change but not my call. The person in the documentary looked like a better Storm than Halle Berry. It was a documentary about fan-films, and this woman decided to dress up as Storm and be her in their own fan-fiction amateur cam-movies. Her criticisms predate the modern age of cancel culture and SJW's too, but I can't help but feel she'd be upgraded to SJW today for essentially calling out the same lackadaisical effort of Storm's character in the movies.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 2, 2023 18:05:52 GMT
Do you really think people are not going to complain if the X-men was an almost purely caucasian cast? Heck, why do you think they're being called The Mutants instead of the X-Men? I don't know. I didn't think they had complained before, even with the movies. Whether or not there's social media to carry it further, people will always complain. That didn't just pop up in the last decade. I did hear one instance in a documentary of a black woman noting she felt disappointed by Storm. As a black woman, she felt Storm didn't have more to do. As a white guy, I agree. I thought Storm was kinda crap. Even Halle Berry's remarked that she didn't go deep into the character and didn't have much interest in returning.
Basically it depends if you feel if what you have to complain about is worth complaining about. It's easy to lump someone in like that with SJW's ang woke mobs, but if you actually listen to her like an individual, maybe you'll see she has a point. After all, it would be from a different perspective.
As for why they're being called The Mutants, I'm still on the fence as to whether that's real or a joke. I think it's a terrible name. If they had an X in it at least it might be connectable to the property that is the X-Men.
Dude, the movies were made in the early 2000's. Again, vastly different socio-political climate. Stop comparing how the X-Men products were received from decades ago and start comparing it with how modern-day superhero shows are being received. Stop using examples from way back when, we're in a completely different environment now. What I or you feel like complaining about is not what we're talking about here. It's how the general Hollywood environment is at the moment. And if you really think that the current socio-political climate nowadays is no different from how it was in the 90's well, then there's really no point in continuing this discussion.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 2, 2023 18:08:10 GMT
The lineup and casting probably won't be "true" to the comics. I fully expect Marvel to do a modernized team and honestly that's probably for the best. There's a lot of Mutant characters that either haven't been fully explored or adapted for the screen. And it would be nice to see a new fresh cast of characters for once instead of getting Wolverine for the 20th time. How will it be for the best? The same people who constantly complained that Foxs X-men were never true to the comics will be hypocrites if they have no problem with major changes to the lineup and cast. Let's be honest here, there's a very good chance that no one is going to be happy with Marvel casting choices. Everyone has a certain actor or actress in mind or how the characters should look.
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Post by Cat on Mar 2, 2023 18:09:42 GMT
I don't know. I didn't think they had complained before, even with the movies. Whether or not there's social media to carry it further, people will always complain. That didn't just pop up in the last decade. I did hear one instance in a documentary of a black woman noting she felt disappointed by Storm. As a black woman, she felt Storm didn't have more to do. As a white guy, I agree. I thought Storm was kinda crap. Even Halle Berry's remarked that she didn't go deep into the character and didn't have much interest in returning.
Basically it depends if you feel if what you have to complain about is worth complaining about. It's easy to lump someone in like that with SJW's ang woke mobs, but if you actually listen to her like an individual, maybe you'll see she has a point. After all, it would be from a different perspective.
As for why they're being called The Mutants, I'm still on the fence as to whether that's real or a joke. I think it's a terrible name. If they had an X in it at least it might be connectable to the property that is the X-Men.
Dude, the movies were made in the early 2000's. Again, vastly different socio-political climate. Stop comparing how the X-Men products were received from decades ago and start comparing it with how modern-day superhero shows are being received. Stop using examples from way back when, we're in a completely different environment now. What I or you feel like complaining about is not what we're talking about here. It's how the general Hollywood environment is at the moment. And if you really think that the current socio-political climate nowadays is no different from how it was in the 90's well, then there's really no point in continuing this discussion. All I know is if you like it, you like it. If you don't, don't watch. I have no greater point to make than that.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 2, 2023 18:12:09 GMT
I honestly hope that the MCU Xmen lineup is completely new and vastly different than what we got with the Fox-Men.
Do we really honest to God need to see Wolverine again? Or Cyclops? Jean, Beast and even Storm?
Give me a new cast of characters. Shake it up some! Take more risks Marvel!
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 2, 2023 18:16:53 GMT
Dude, the movies were made in the early 2000's. Again, vastly different socio-political climate. Stop comparing how the X-Men products were received from decades ago and start comparing it with how modern-day superhero shows are being received. Stop using examples from way back when, we're in a completely different environment now. What I or you feel like complaining about is not what we're talking about here. It's how the general Hollywood environment is at the moment. And if you really think that the current socio-political climate nowadays is no different from how it was in the 90's well, then there's really no point in continuing this discussion. All I know is if you like it, you like it. If you don't, don't watch. I have no greater point to make than that. Yeah well, that wasn't really the topic we were discussing. You were originally saying that people wouldn't complain about the X-Men not being diverse because they never complained about it in the original show. But sure, let's leave it at that.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 2, 2023 18:24:10 GMT
The lineup and casting probably won't be "true" to the comics. I fully expect Marvel to do a modernized team and honestly that's probably for the best. There's a lot of Mutant characters that either haven't been fully explored or adapted for the screen. And it would be nice to see a new fresh cast of characters for once instead of getting Wolverine for the 20th time. How will it be for the best? The same people who constantly complained that Foxs X-men were never true to the comics will be hypocrites if they have no problem with major changes to the lineup and cast. X-Men has had a rotating cast of different characters ever since the 70s, there's no "true" lineup. That roster from the 90s hasn't been the roster in 20 years.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 2, 2023 18:25:18 GMT
Storm was under-used 100%. And they needed to have a true black female to play her, not Halle Berry whose lightskinned. Calling it The Mutants is deliberate. One of the Marvel execs came out a while ago and said the X-Men name is sexist because it doesnt include women. Thats the reason theyre using ''Mutants'', until proven otherwise. An X in there somewhere would make a lot of difference. It's a tacky change but not my call. The person in the documentary looked like a better Storm than Halle Berry. It was a documentary about fan-films, and this woman decided to dress up as Storm and be her in their own fan-fiction amateur cam-movies. Her criticisms predate the modern age of cancel culture and SJW's too, but I can't help but feel she'd be upgraded to SJW today for essentially calling out the same lackadaisical effort of Storm's character in the movies.
All they have to do is call it "X-Factor" and that solves that...
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Post by Cat on Mar 2, 2023 18:34:51 GMT
All I know is if you like it, you like it. If you don't, don't watch. I have no greater point to make than that. Yeah well, that wasn't really the topic we were discussing. You were originally saying that people wouldn't complain about the X-Men not being diverse because they never complained about it in the original show. But sure, let's leave it at that. No no no. That's a big miscommunication that I even tried to clear up. I didn't say they wouldn't complain. I asked why you were so sure that they would. It was a passing curiosity. There is no Mutants yet, so we can't know for sure if anyone will complain, or if those complaints will have any merit. Is it laboring the obvious to say you can't predict the reaction or critique a show that doesn't exist yet?
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 2, 2023 19:12:16 GMT
Yeah well, that wasn't really the topic we were discussing. You were originally saying that people wouldn't complain about the X-Men not being diverse because they never complained about it in the original show. But sure, let's leave it at that. No no no. That's a big miscommunication that I even tried to clear up. I didn't say they wouldn't complain. I asked why you were so sure that they would. It was a passing curiosity. There is no Mutants yet, so we can't know for sure if anyone will complain, or if those complaints will have any merit. Is it laboring the obvious to say you can't predict the reaction or critique a show that doesn't exist yet? Ok, my apologies if I misunderstood. That said, while I can't exactly predict how a show will be received, I can easily observe the pattern of modern-day superhero shows and their reception then base a probable prediction off of that.
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Post by Cat on Mar 2, 2023 19:23:44 GMT
No no no. That's a big miscommunication that I even tried to clear up. I didn't say they wouldn't complain. I asked why you were so sure that they would. It was a passing curiosity. There is no Mutants yet, so we can't know for sure if anyone will complain, or if those complaints will have any merit. Is it laboring the obvious to say you can't predict the reaction or critique a show that doesn't exist yet? Ok, my apologies if I misunderstood. That said, while I can't exactly predict how a show will be received, I can easily observe the pattern of modern-day superhero shows and their reception then base a probably prediction off of that. That's fair. That's a good middle to meet at.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 2, 2023 22:02:55 GMT
But I wasn't making the argument that change equates to being bad, you can still produce a bad adaptation of a work and still make something entertaining from it, however, you may end up creating a different impression of the property and character and eliminating potentially rich stories to tell from the source material if you cut out specific key elements. I have actually seen plenty of people complain about Christopher Nolan's take on Bane, in that he was a hired hand, didn't have venom, and wasn't easy to hear, for starters. Curious, but what is an example of something in an adaptation (I am not limiting it to the X-Men) that you consider as being contempt for the source material and what you believe is an example of pragmatism? Catwoman in the '66 series was mentally unstable, you would have to be to want to commit the kind of crimes she had and wanting to wear that outfit every minute of the day. I don't think Pfeiffer's Catwoman is loved necessarily because of the change in origin but more because of how well Pfeiffer performed in the role. I don't think it would be as popular a portrayal if another actress had played the part. There's no need to correct anything, the characters are fine as they are, and there are plenty of other characters in the Marvel universe who aren't white and do warrant their own movies and television series. You may, or you may just be updating flawed outdated source material. Look at how Bucky and Star-Lord were outright improved.
And even more loved him and were fine with all the changes, which shows even when its a big property like Batman these things work.
Making Bucky into Steve's Adult best friend is a pragmatic choice. Making Rogue into a constant weakling who couldn't even be an effective combatant with only her absorbing powers was a contemptuous choice.
Not the outright whackjob she was in Batman Returns. And Penguine wasn't a deformed mutant who wanted to kill kids either in 60s Batman.
Well we'll never know, but I never saw anyone complain about her changed origin and how she wasn't even a Cat Thief anymore but a vigilante herself.
Not enough of them, which is due to the mistake of making everything too homogeneous to start with. Time to correct that.
It depends on the character and source material, but I don't see the characters and concepts of the Fantastic Four or the X-Men as being outdated and flawed. Because both titles have been going for more than half a century, there have no doubt been storylines, dialog, and attitudes that don't resonate for today, but the core essentials of both concepts still do hence why both still see new media being made from them rather than being cancelled and left to collect dust. I don't think outside of comic book fans very many people knew all that much about the Bane character before he was announced for The Dark Knight Rises beyond him being a muscular person who wears a mask that fights Batman. I recall some people questioning the decision to have him be the big bad of the film under the impression that he wouldn't be an intellectual foil for Batman, when if they had read the Knightfall storyline they would have known he is as smart as he is strong (He deduced Batman's identity just be observing the way Bruce Wayne walked at an event). The Dark Knight Rises is probably first time where Bane was portrayed as more intellectual than just brute force outside of the comic book, the closest he felt more in line with his comic counterpart was an in episode of Batman: The Animated Series but it was one long dream sequence basically. This again goes back to my point that if someone has less exposure to a character or property they won't be as judgmental about its alterations compared to something they might be. Fair. Not like in Batman Returns, but she still wasn't mentally stable in the '66 series. I already agreed that The Penguin in Batman Returns was a serious departure from the '66 series, my argument is that in the early 90's it was popular to make everything "extreme" and dark, and for most non-comic people The Penguin was seen as a boring character - director Tim Burton thought so, hence the major reworking. I have. Those that do like that version admit she isn't like the comic book version but still is an effectively portrayed character by Michelle Pfeiffer who does a lot of the heavy lifting with the material. There is no need to 'correct' anything, the Fantastic Four and Charles Xavier are fine as they are, and there are plenty of non-white characters in Marvel that are primed to lead a story for film and television. You could even have an X-Men movie with Storm being the main protagonist and interact with the likes of Bishop, Psylocke, Jubilee, Spyke, Cecillia Reyes, Oya, Mirage, Synch, M, Silver Samurai, Lady Deathstrike, and Silver Samurai and still have Charles be white.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 3, 2023 0:20:11 GMT
You may, or you may just be updating flawed outdated source material. Look at how Bucky and Star-Lord were outright improved.
And even more loved him and were fine with all the changes, which shows even when its a big property like Batman these things work.
Making Bucky into Steve's Adult best friend is a pragmatic choice. Making Rogue into a constant weakling who couldn't even be an effective combatant with only her absorbing powers was a contemptuous choice.
Not the outright whackjob she was in Batman Returns. And Penguine wasn't a deformed mutant who wanted to kill kids either in 60s Batman.
Well we'll never know, but I never saw anyone complain about her changed origin and how she wasn't even a Cat Thief anymore but a vigilante herself.
Not enough of them, which is due to the mistake of making everything too homogeneous to start with. Time to correct that.
It depends on the character and source material, but I don't see the characters and concepts of the Fantastic Four or the X-Men as being outdated and flawed. Because both titles have been going for more than half a century, there have no doubt been storylines, dialog, and attitudes that don't resonate for today, but the core essentials of both concepts still do hence why both still see new media being made from them rather than being cancelled and left to collect dust. I don't think outside of comic book fans very many people knew all that much about the Bane character before he was announced for The Dark Knight Rises beyond him being a muscular person who wears a mask that fights Batman. I recall some people questioning the decision to have him be the big bad of the film under the impression that he wouldn't be an intellectual foil for Batman, when if they had read the Knightfall storyline they would have known he is as smart as he is strong (He deduced Batman's identity just be observing the way Bruce Wayne walked at an event). The Dark Knight Rises is probably first time where Bane was portrayed as more intellectual than just brute force outside of the comic book, the closest he felt more in line with his comic counterpart was an in episode of Batman: The Animated Series but it was one long dream sequence basically. This again goes back to my point that if someone has less exposure to a character or property they won't be as judgmental about its alterations compared to something they might be. Fair. Not like in Batman Returns, but she still wasn't mentally stable in the '66 series. I already agreed that The Penguin in Batman Returns was a serious departure from the '66 series, my argument is that in the early 90's it was popular to make everything "extreme" and dark, and for most non-comic people The Penguin was seen as a boring character - director Tim Burton thought so, hence the major reworking. I have. Those that do like that version admit she isn't like the comic book version but still is an effectively portrayed character by Michelle Pfeiffer who does a lot of the heavy lifting with the material. There is no need to 'correct' anything, the Fantastic Four and Charles Xavier are fine as they are, and there are plenty of non-white characters in Marvel that are primed to lead a story for film and television. You could even have an X-Men movie with Storm being the main protagonist and interact with the likes of Bishop, Psylocke, Jubilee, Spyke, Cecillia Reyes, Oya, Mirage, Synch, M, Silver Samurai, Lady Deathstrike, and Silver Samurai and still have Charles be white. The comics themselves agreed that X-Men needed updated and there were inherent flaws, that's why the book was canceled at first and needed to be seriously reworked being relaunched. And why multiple attempts were made to remove all the lingering legacy characters from the start (Cyclops and Xavier in particular) and even have the school itself be destroyed and left destroyed. These failed, but the writers did want this. FF similarly has issues with adaptations thanks to the source materials flaws.
Sounds like you're making excuses now.
And I'm saying that if what you were saying was true, Batman Returns would have a worse reputation over time rather than the other way around. Seems those major changes to major characters were somehow acceptable by the very same people who'd be angry if changes were made to characters like Xavier. Making them hypocrites.
So double standards then.
There is, there very much is. The over homogeneous-ness was a mistake and must be dealt with. If Jim Gordon can be made into a black man then so can Xavier.
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Post by blockbusted on Mar 3, 2023 1:44:39 GMT
I honestly hope that the MCU Xmen lineup is completely new and vastly different than what we got with the Fox-Men. Do we really honest to God need to see Wolverine again? Or Cyclops? Jean, Beast and even Storm? Give me a new cast of characters. Shake it up some! Take more risks Marvel! In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Marvel has other plans for Storm since they have T’Challa II now.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Mar 3, 2023 5:49:06 GMT
It depends on the character and source material, but I don't see the characters and concepts of the Fantastic Four or the X-Men as being outdated and flawed. Because both titles have been going for more than half a century, there have no doubt been storylines, dialog, and attitudes that don't resonate for today, but the core essentials of both concepts still do hence why both still see new media being made from them rather than being cancelled and left to collect dust. I don't think outside of comic book fans very many people knew all that much about the Bane character before he was announced for The Dark Knight Rises beyond him being a muscular person who wears a mask that fights Batman. I recall some people questioning the decision to have him be the big bad of the film under the impression that he wouldn't be an intellectual foil for Batman, when if they had read the Knightfall storyline they would have known he is as smart as he is strong (He deduced Batman's identity just be observing the way Bruce Wayne walked at an event). The Dark Knight Rises is probably first time where Bane was portrayed as more intellectual than just brute force outside of the comic book, the closest he felt more in line with his comic counterpart was an in episode of Batman: The Animated Series but it was one long dream sequence basically. This again goes back to my point that if someone has less exposure to a character or property they won't be as judgmental about its alterations compared to something they might be. Fair. Not like in Batman Returns, but she still wasn't mentally stable in the '66 series. I already agreed that The Penguin in Batman Returns was a serious departure from the '66 series, my argument is that in the early 90's it was popular to make everything "extreme" and dark, and for most non-comic people The Penguin was seen as a boring character - director Tim Burton thought so, hence the major reworking. I have. Those that do like that version admit she isn't like the comic book version but still is an effectively portrayed character by Michelle Pfeiffer who does a lot of the heavy lifting with the material. There is no need to 'correct' anything, the Fantastic Four and Charles Xavier are fine as they are, and there are plenty of non-white characters in Marvel that are primed to lead a story for film and television. You could even have an X-Men movie with Storm being the main protagonist and interact with the likes of Bishop, Psylocke, Jubilee, Spyke, Cecillia Reyes, Oya, Mirage, Synch, M, Silver Samurai, Lady Deathstrike, and Silver Samurai and still have Charles be white. The comics themselves agreed that X-Men needed updated and there were inherent flaws, that's why the book was canceled at first and needed to be seriously reworked being relaunched. And why multiple attempts were made to remove all the lingering legacy characters from the start (Cyclops and Xavier in particular) and even have the school itself be destroyed and left destroyed. These failed, but the writers did want this. FF similarly has issues with adaptations thanks to the source materials flaws.
Sounds like you're making excuses now.
And I'm saying that if what you were saying was true, Batman Returns would have a worse reputation over time rather than the other way around. Seems those major changes to major characters were somehow acceptable by the very same people who'd be angry if changes were made to characters like Xavier. Making them hypocrites.
So double standards then.
There is, there very much is. The over homogeneous-ness was a mistake and must be dealt with. If Jim Gordon can be made into a black man then so can Xavier.
I suggest you read my statement once more, because I admitted that because both series having existed for over half a century there have been stories, attitudes, and dialog that do not resonate today, but the basic premise of the two still resonate with readers today, hence why they're still being published to the masses. The Fantastic Four are a team of explorers and superheroes who still have to deal with everyday issues and face trials and tribulations. Some people idolize them, others do not, sometimes they like the fame, other times they dislike that they can never have a normal life again. The X-Men is about people with unique abilities who face difficulty in being accepted in society. I am not making excuses for anyone; I am pointing out that outside of the comic books Bane wasn't portrayed that too accurately to the source material and as such many people's impressions of him was that he was a Batman villain who dressed like a professional wrestler who used a serum to get bigger. As mentioned, there was a reason why DC Comics released collected editions of the Knightfall story arc and decided to use Bane in more stories around the time of release of the film. The evidence is all over the internet - Batman Returns was a controversial movie and wasn't seen as a huge crowd pleaser on release, its reception changed overtime. It depends on the individual, if they show acceptance of change for one thing but not for the other and they happen to be well-versed in both properties, then an argument can be made for hypocrisy, otherwise it is a fallacy. There is no need to, there are plenty of non-white characters in the Marvel universe that can carry their own movie or series, I have already said that you can have an X-Men movie centered around a cast of non-white characters but still keep Xavier as traditionally presented as in media.
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