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Post by kuatorises on Feb 27, 2023 18:16:56 GMT
I was just watching this interview (below). They reference that episode and they're all appalled at it. Frakes in particular seems to be triggered by that episode. I even found another interview where he tees off on a moderator for not randomly bringing it up:
Has he never seen an episode of The Original Series? There's a ton of episodes where an alien race is essentially a specific human culture. Why is it racist? Because they were....African looking/acting? Are there not black people in Africa?
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Feb 27, 2023 18:49:02 GMT
Lets just call everything racist, and be done with it.
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Post by Prime etc. on Feb 27, 2023 22:04:21 GMT
Has he never seen an episode of The Original Series? There's a ton of episodes where an alien race is essentially a specific human culture. Why is it racist? Because they were....African looking/acting? Are there not black people in Africa?
I don't remember that episode at all.
I remember episodes of the first season where the planet was made up of blonde people so what is the big deal? Obviously it is because this attempt at multicultural virtue signaling is now seen as insulting--they ignore that this alien planet had developed a vaccine that the Federation needed.
It's basically Wakanda in space but now it is am embarrassment--cultural appropriation and not hi-tech enough. Too primitive. Even though they had the vaccine.
But at the time, it was also feminist--because the woman overthrows the male leader.
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Post by Catman on Feb 27, 2023 22:20:36 GMT
On the other hand, Wil Wheaton said the episode is not as racist as he remembered it. For the most part, it was just a bad episode.
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Post by kuatorises on Feb 28, 2023 14:53:37 GMT
Has he never seen an episode of The Original Series? There's a ton of episodes where an alien race is essentially a specific human culture. Why is it racist? Because they were....African looking/acting? Are there not black people in Africa?
I don't remember that episode at all.
I remember episodes of the first season where the planet was made up of blonde people so what is the big deal? Obviously it is because this attempt at multicultural virtue signaling is now seen as insulting--they ignore that this alien planet had developed a vaccine that the Federation needed.
It's basically Wakanda in space but now it is am embarrassment--cultural appropriation and not hi-tech enough. Too primitive. Even though they had the vaccine.
But at the time, it was also feminist--because the woman overthrows the male leader.
A ruler on the African-inspired fancies Tasha and keeps her hostage (clips below). The Federation is negotiating with them for a vaccine, so hesitant to outright take her back.
Frakes nor anyone else in the first interview says why it's racist, just that it is. Ironic, you bring up Black Panther, because that's celebrated. But this? Racist. Terribly, terribly racist. Frakes seems like a nice guy, but this sets him off. Really irrational about it. He rants about the episode any chance he gets.
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Post by kuatorises on Feb 28, 2023 15:07:39 GMT
On the other hand, Wil Wheaton said the episode is not as racist as he remembered it. For the most part, it was just a bad episode. PlutoTV has two Star Trek channels. It's great. I saw Code of Honor about a year ago. Maybe two, tops Did I laugh at a planet of all black people with an African theme? Sure, but I laughed at Klingons in the TOS too. Or as already said, a planet of blonde people.
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Post by Prime etc. on Feb 28, 2023 17:19:38 GMT
And Wakanda isn't flattering either--don't they say that the reason the Wakanda society was founded was due to a meteorite crashing? Something in the metal that made them smart and develop technology? And Wakanda had an internal quarrel about whether to embrace globalism. On Star Trek, the idea of independent planets was more acceptable. Lots of planets were not members of the Federation. My guess is that Frakes is grandstanding to appease someone. He's a director right? He has to tow the line more than the others because he is or was higher up in career status for a while and his the standard white alpha male type so he has to stay on their nice side.
I am tempted to watch one of those Wheaton commentaries. I bet he is more interesting now--talking about it than his character was on the show.
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 2, 2023 21:05:07 GMT
And Wakanda isn't flattering either--don't they say that the reason the Wakanda society was founded was due to a meteorite crashing? Something in the metal that made them smart and develop technology? And Wakanda had an internal quarrel about whether to embrace globalism. On Star Trek, the idea of independent planets was more acceptable. Lots of planets were not members of the Federation. My guess is that Frakes is grandstanding to appease someone. He's a director right? He has to tow the line more than the others because he is or was higher up in career status for a while and his the standard white alpha male type so he has to stay on their nice side. I am tempted to watch one of those Wheaton commentaries. I bet he is more interesting now--talking about it than his character was on the show. In the same video as above, Frakes also mentions the planet in Insurrection being ridiculous because the village is all white. There's literally been examples throughout history of populations that small (600) being a single race. We're intermixed now, but people still lump themselves together by race. There's Chinatowns, black neighborhoods, Hispanic ones, white ones, all over the country.
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 2, 2023 21:32:36 GMT
It kind of defeats the point of Star Trek as well. Going around to find new worlds and civilizations. What is he advocating? Borg assimilation?
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 3, 2023 18:12:31 GMT
It kind of defeats the point of Star Trek as well. Going around to find new worlds and civilizations. What is he advocating? Borg assimilation? It's kinda what "progressives" are at this point. Wakanda? That's ok, because black people directed it. Code of Honor? No, no, no, no...
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Post by Prime etc. on Mar 3, 2023 18:51:38 GMT
The episode of the original series with the tribe of albinos who worship that lizard god cave-Vall?-no one complains that those albinos have no computers!
What about the manskirt? I guess Frakes and company give it a thumbs up now?
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Mar 4, 2023 18:30:19 GMT
I don't remember the episode well but I agree, it is racist - and that's coming from someone who despises identity politics.
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 6, 2023 17:55:35 GMT
I don't remember the episode well but I agree, it is racist - and that's coming from someone who despises identity politics. What makes it racist?
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Mar 6, 2023 18:33:48 GMT
I don't remember the episode well but I agree, it is racist - and that's coming from someone who despises identity politics. What makes it racist? Isn't the planet inhabited entirely by black people who are depicted as savages?
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 6, 2023 19:51:19 GMT
Isn't the planet inhabited entirely by black people who are depicted as savages?
What do you mean by savage? They were warrior-like, like say...... Klingons, who kill each other regularly. It's a part of their political and social structure and they originally looked like Mongols:
But they were providing Starfleet with a vaccine. In Code of Honor, I mean.
Don't forget the Irish Planet:
Are all of these offensive or just the black episode?
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Post by Jep Gambardella on Mar 6, 2023 20:40:49 GMT
Isn't the planet inhabited entirely by black people who are depicted as savages?
What do you mean by savage? They were warrior-like, like say...... Klingons, who kill each other regularly. It's a part of their political and social structure and they originally looked like Mongols:
But they were providing Starfleet with a vaccine. In Code of Honor, I mean.
Don't forget the Irish Planet:
Are all of these offensive or just the black episode?
I never associated the Klingons with Asians. If all Klingons had distinctively Asian facial features, then yes, I would consider it racist to portray them as the violent race they are.
I can't say I remember the Irish planet.
If the Enterprise ever visited a country where everybody looked vaguely Mexican and they were portrayed as lazy and untrustworthy, yes, that would be racist.
I think the Ferengi with their big noses ears and their love of money above all else is very close to being an anti-Semitic representation. I am actually very surprised that nobody seems to have picked up on that - at least I have never seen it discussed.
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Post by Catman on Mar 6, 2023 20:47:15 GMT
I think the Ferengi with their big noses ears and their love of money above all else is very close to being an anti-Semitic representation. I am actually very surprised that nobody seems to have picked up on that - at least I have never seen it discussed. Google Results for 'Are Ferengi Anti-Semitic'
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Post by Sarge on Mar 16, 2023 5:41:00 GMT
I think if you go looking to be offended, you'll find something to offend yourself even if you have to make it up. Hollywood is a race to be the most woke, the most offended.
And yeah, the Klingons were inspired by Mongols, blacks was a TNG thing.
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Post by thorshairspray on Mar 21, 2023 14:32:39 GMT
Isn't the planet inhabited entirely by black people who are depicted as savages?
What do you mean by savage? They were warrior-like, like say...... Klingons, who kill each other regularly. It's a part of their political and social structure and they originally looked like Mongols:
But they were providing Starfleet with a vaccine. In Code of Honor, I mean.
Don't forget the Irish Planet:
Are all of these offensive or just the black episode? Oh God, that Irish episode. I cringed so hard and won't watch it on repeat viewings.
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 21, 2023 14:35:10 GMT
What do you mean by savage? They were warrior-like, like say...... Klingons, who kill each other regularly. It's a part of their political and social structure and they originally looked like Mongols:
But they were providing Starfleet with a vaccine. In Code of Honor, I mean.
Don't forget the Irish Planet:
Are all of these offensive or just the black episode? Oh God, that Irish episode. I cringed so hard and won't watch it on repeat viewings. Star Trek had a habit of just making entire planets based on a race or culture for years. Playing on stereotypes is not racist imo. Cliche and lacking creativity a little, sure Racist, no.
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