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Post by Doghouse6 on Jun 7, 2017 1:45:47 GMT
During my viewing the other night, in which I formulated my grudge against Miss Astor, I gave more attention to Gutman. I realized he is different from the other characters who are only in it for the money. Finding the bird is a quest for him. I imagine if he did acquire it, he could never bear to part with it. After this disappointment he must have realized that the trail he has uncovered could be worthless, but he is not at all deterred from continuing. In that light he is a tragic, almost heroic, figure. I am not into fan-fiction, but to humor telegonus I would suggest that the Greek dealer had the decoy bird made and put out the story that he has re-enameled the bird to explain any slight differences in color or appearance. Certainly the whole story is so iconic and yet so scant on detail, that it lends itself well to prequels and sequels. That's actually occurred to me about the Greek dealer, in spite of Gutman's assertion, "Yes, it's the Russian's hand. There's no doubt about it." And although Sam keeps a share of the cash for his "time and expenses," it can be said his interest is not entirely mercenary, either: "When a man's partner is killed, he's supposed to do something. It makes no difference what you thought of him; he was your partner, and you're supposed to do something about it." It's not so much a quest as fulfillment of a professional and personal code.
Speaking of grudges, I hold none against your estimation of Astor as "not...a very good actress." For some time after I first saw TMF somewhere between 45-50 years ago, it had been my only exposure to her, and I can't say I was terribly impressed. In succeeding decades and from a couple dozen or so of her other films, I've completely revised my evaluation and consider her among the finest of her generation. Shadings of character both subtle and ostentatious in Red Dust, Dodsworth, The Hurricane, Midnight, The Great Lie, Across the Pacific, The Palm Beach Story, Meet Me In St. Louis, Desert Fury, Act Of Violence, Little Women, A Kiss Before Dying, Hush...Hush, Sweet Charlotte and many other more minor films have allowed me to appreciate dimensions in her TMF work that had escaped me, and in each of them, I've perceived a fully-fleshed character that feels organically inhabited and developed from within, displaying unmistakable distinctions from all others. Of these, (if you haven't seen them), I'd most strongly recommend Dodsworth for her reserved yet passionate and steadfast Edith Cortright, The Great Lie for her selfish, temperamental and vindictive concert pianist, Across the Pacific for her sly and acerbic Alberta Marlowe, The Palm Beach Story for the flighty and madcap Princess Centimillia and Desert Fury for Fritzi, the grim and tough-as-nails casino owner and town boss. From this handful alone, the breadth of her versatility can be discerned and appreciated. That said, I know it's sometimes the case that a performer simply doesn't "click" for a viewer, and there's not much that can change it. But for me, Astor clicks, and those films were among the ones that did allow such a change.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Jun 7, 2017 2:13:18 GMT
Astor looks like a bag lady when she first appears wrapped in a confusion of shawls and furs.
Pretty rich "bag lady" able to afford "furs and shawls" (confused or not) That aside, checked out the opening of the film after reading these posts and saw the furs but no shawls.
I have never gotten the impression that she is trying to appear naïve or unsophisticated, feigned or otherwise. Her stumbling over the amount to pay seemed the only time she seemed even a tad kerflummoxed. She came into the office, stated her business and that was that. Miles is the one who flirts and she just brushes him off and walks out.
Great film ! Great costumes. Timecapsule of props. Flawless portrayals. Cairo and Wilmer and Gutman and Effie and and and ! Oh. yeah Spade and Bridget too.
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Post by telegonus on Jun 7, 2017 8:24:09 GMT
While I agree, Doghouse, that The Maltese Falcon has an intriguing and exotic back story it doesn't quite play fair with the viewer as to "is it or isn't it the real deal?",--no, not the falcon in the movie, the questions concerning that one ate up in the air--I mean the falcon itself. Or is it the stuff of legend? None of these unresolved and undeveloped aspects of the story truly hurt the movie. It's nearly immune to criticism of the specific sort of the kind of I'm raising, and fortunately for me I know it. The film's elliptical and murky qualities draw the viewer in and yet at the same time confuses him. The exposition, and there's a fair amount of it, damn near obfuscate many plot points to the point of distraction. Yet in the end, as always, it's a "didn't we have a ball" kind of movie.
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jun 7, 2017 14:21:13 GMT
While I agree, Doghouse, that The Maltese Falcon has an intriguing and exotic back story it doesn't quite play fair with the viewer as to "is it or isn't it the real deal?",--no, not the falcon in the movie, the questions concerning that one ate up in the air--I mean the falcon itself. Or is it the stuff of legend? None of these unresolved and undeveloped aspects of the story truly hurt the movie. It's nearly immune to criticism of the specific sort of the kind of I'm raising, and fortunately for me I know it. The film's elliptical and murky qualities draw the viewer in and yet at the same time confuses him. The exposition, and there's a fair amount of it, damn near obfuscate many plot points to the point of distraction. Yet in the end, as always, it's a "didn't we have a ball" kind of movie. I guess you could say I was once among the distracted. TMF is one of a handful of Huston's films that needed several viewings to really grab me ( Treasure Of the Sierra Madre and Beat the Devil were a couple others). I don't know that it had anything to do with Huston, specifically; Key Largo, The Asphalt Jungle and The Night Of the Iguana were some that captivated me immediately. In the case of TMF, I'm not sure it had to do with murky and confusing plot points, either, for The Big Sleep is no slouch in that department and was for years my preference of the two. They've since switched places in my estimation; TMF has more meat on its bones and I've come to prefer it to the more playful TBS. They're both "have a ball" films, but of different sorts, in the ways that, say, Psycho and North By Northwest differ in the comparative brands of fun they offer.
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Post by Richard Kimble on Jun 11, 2017 10:03:22 GMT
While I am second to none in my admiration for Elisha Cook, I have to say I think Dwight Frye in the '31 is better cast as Wilmer. He's more convincing as a juvenile than the rather mature Cook, and he makes a bit more clear the implied relationship between Wilmer and Gutman, especially with the lovingly lighted close-ups on Frye's sensitive, near-angelic eyes.
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Post by marshamae on Jun 11, 2017 10:47:42 GMT
Now, I've always thought Astor was smashing in Maltese Falcon. She provided a great contrast to Gladys George who really did make me wonder what was wrong with Sam Spade. But George was supposed to be unsympathetic, and Astor , to me , was beautiful, and dangerous.
In her first scene she wore a suit and furs, a pretty normal day costume. Her outfit answered a question for me. I've read that Claudette Colbert had very specific ideas about all matters pertaining to her appearance, preferring one profile over the other , a particular hair style etc. She tried to ensure that she always wore Peter Pan collars and I never could get how that looked with a suit. Well Mary Astor is wearing it. Her clothes are a little frantic to show her agitation about her imaginary sister.
Her first real scene with guts is in her apartment where she " goes around straightening things. You can feel her playing Sam even as he thinks he's got control. Next come the wonderful scene where she kicks Peter Lorre. Her we get a glimpse of what she's capable of, both in her physical handling of Lorre and in the boy alluded to by Lorre, whom they apparently shared.
Her behavior in the last long scene, both to Guttmann and to Sam are exactly what's needed.
Astor is about at the end of her chances to be the major love interest. She had already been second lead to Madeleine Carroll in Prisoner of Zelda. She would make the Great Lie, Across the Pacific, and not long after she was playing Mom, paired with Leon Ames. To see her full range see The Canary Murder case, a Philo Vance film with William Powell, or some of her silent. I can't help thinking her sexy reputation , thanks to her famous sex diary had something to do with the image she projected on screen. Without already thinking if her as a woman if powerful sexual appetite tes, maybe it's harder for a modern viewer to see her that way. She was one of the few Hollywood stars who had such specific info about her misdeeds out in the public eye. No viewer of the first run Maltese Falcon needed convincing that she was sexy. All she had to do was show up.
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Post by london777 on Jun 11, 2017 17:00:22 GMT
Interesting post, marshamae, and partially explains my different view from other posters. I judge a film purely on what is on the screen in front of my eyes. I do not take account of the previous or subsequent careers of anyone involved, such as director, actors, writers, etc. If it is an adaptation of a novel or play or previous movies I ignore those and judge the movie on its own merits. Even less do I consider gossip columns, publicity material, or fans' posts. This is not to say that film history is not a useful, maybe even a valuable pursuit. I have been extremely entertained by many of the posts here and I wonder at the knowledge of some of our posters. But none of this affects my judgment of whether a film is good, bad or indifferent, or would inhibit me from citing a small blemish in even the best of films.
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Post by TheOriginalPinky on Jun 12, 2017 15:05:13 GMT
Now, I've always thought Astor was smashing in Maltese Falcon. She provided a great contrast to Gladys George who really did make me wonder what was wrong with Sam Spade. But George was supposed to be unsympathetic, and Astor , to me , was beautiful, and dangerous. In her first scene she wore a suit and furs, a pretty normal day costume. Her outfit answered a question for me. I've read that Claudette Colbert had very specific ideas about all matters pertaining to her appearance, preferring one profile over the other , a particular hair style etc. She tried to ensure that she always wore Peter Pan collars and I never could get how that looked with a suit. Well Mary Astor is wearing it. Her clothes are a little frantic to show her agitation about her imaginary sister. Her first real scene with guts is in her apartment where she " goes around straightening things. You can feel her playing Sam even as he thinks he's got control. Next come the wonderful scene where she kicks Peter Lorre. Her we get a glimpse of what she's capable of, both in her physical handling of Lorre and in the boy alluded to by Lorre, whom they apparently shared. Her behavior in the last long scene, both to Guttmann and to Sam are exactly what's needed. Astor is about at the end of her chances to be the major love interest. She had already been second lead to Madeleine Carroll in Prisoner of Zelda. She would make the Great Lie, Across the Pacific, and not long after she was playing Mom, paired with Leon Ames. To see her full range see The Canary Murder case, a Philo Vance film with William Powell, or some of her silent. I can't help thinking her sexy reputation , thanks to her famous sex diary had something to do with the image she projected on screen. Without already thinking if her as a woman if powerful sexual appetite tes, maybe it's harder for a modern viewer to see her that way. She was one of the few Hollywood stars who had such specific info about her misdeeds out in the public eye. No viewer of the first run Maltese Falcon needed convincing that she was sexy. All she had to do was show up. Great post!
I loved Astor. My other favorite films of hers, aside from Maltese Falcon, were The Great Lie (1941), as well as Dodworth (1936).
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Post by telegonus on Jun 13, 2017 18:01:28 GMT
While I am second to none in my admiration for Elisha Cook, I have to say I think Dwight Frye in the '31 is better cast as Wilmer. He's more convincing as a juvenile than the rather mature Cook, and he makes a bit more clear the implied relationship between Wilmer and Gutman, especially with the lovingly lighted close-ups on Frye's sensitive, near-angelic eyes. Yes, Dwight Frye was probably better casting as Wilmer for 1931. In an ideal world...well, he would have been older than Elisha ten years later. I think that the letter is perfect for the hard as nails Huston version. He fits the bill for that particular movie.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2017 22:54:58 GMT
Can`t think of anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2017 2:58:33 GMT
After reading this thread, I went and watched the movie again. The first time in 5 years or so. The first thing that jumps out is? The fantastic dialog and pacing. What a great job by a first time director, although, to be honest, Huston had plenty of script experience at this point. He was far from a novice. As to Mary Astor? It's a shame for modern viewers, I guess. Trends in attractiveness change. In the 1920's, Mary Astor was the epitome of young flapper chic beauty. Sometimes the 'bob', sometimes a long black mane, thin slight build, classic flapper 'Betty Boop-ish' winsomeness. Usually dressed to the nines, scotch in one hand, smoke in the other. Later, she had a highly publicized steamy affair with writer George S Kaufman, and her diary left little to the imagination. Very racy for the early 1930's. And by 1941? She was perfect casting for the battered and bruised, yet ever scheming MILF Brigid O'Shaughnessy. It's a shame this is lost through time. 1926: 1928:
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Post by moonlight91 on Oct 29, 2017 5:09:52 GMT
I love Maltese Falcon but a problem with the film comes with Mary Astor. I always thought she was rather miscast because she seems too mousy to even hid being a schemer. I think they needed to have cast someone who had that perfect blend of being both innocent and deadly.
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