|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 16, 2017 21:53:51 GMT
I'm pretty sure its not a downward spiral. If you look at the list below, there are plenty of ups and downs in the grosses for various reasons. Phase 1: 1. Ironman: 585.2 million USD 2. The Incredible Hulk: 263.4 million USD 3. Ironman 2: 623.9 million USD 4. Thor: 449.3 million USD 5. Captain America 1: 370.6 million USD 6. The Avengers: 1.5 billion USD Phase 2: 7. Ironman 3: 1.215 billion USD 8. Thor: TDW: 644.6 million USD 9. Captain America: WS: 714.3 million USD 10. Guardians of the Galaxy: 773.3 million USD 11. Avengers: AoU: 1.405 billion USD 12. Ant-Man: 519.3 million USD Phase 3: 13. Captain America: CW: 1.132 billion USD 14. Doctor Strange: 677.7 million USD Age of Ultron made less than The Avengers, but... Every Non-Avengers Phase 2 Film consistently made more money than every Non-Avengers Phase 1 Film, with the sole exception of Ant-Man, which clocked in with less than the first two Ironman films. But it still made more than Incredible Hulk, Thor, and Cap: TFA. Ironman 3 is the most successful Ironman film to date. Thor: The Dark World, despite easily being the worst MCU film, still beat its predecessor. Captain America: The Winter Soldier beat its predecessor to a bloody pulp and then buried the carcass. The Guardians of the Galaxy outdid Ironman 2, Phase 1's most financially successful Non-Avengers film by over a hundred million. And so far every Non-Avengers Phase 3 Film has continued the trend. Captain America: Civil War outpaced The Winter Soldier by $400 million. No, it's not an Avengers film. It is an Captain America film. The next Avengers film will be Infinity War. Doctor Strange, the new weird character on the block performed as well as everyone was expecting him to. Like Thor, Cap: TFA, and Ant-Man before it, it pulled a healthy, but average box office. In fact, its the most successful new sub-franchise in the series second only to the first Guardians. And yes, the other previously new properties ( Ironman 1, Hulk, Thor, Cap: TFA, Guardians, and Ant-Man) are the films to compare it to. Just as Black Panther and Captain Marvel will be compared to the other previously new properties when they come out. And Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 has already beaten its predecessor at the box office, and still isn't done yet. So this is not a downward spiral. This is a series of franchises that are consistently performing better and better. On the one hand, through this lens, that's correct. But they still made the most box-office bank back in 2012, innit? Their goal should be to top that, I would think, especially with the Thanos duology or whatever it's going to be. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 2:16:37 GMT
I'm pretty sure its not a downward spiral. If you look at the list below, there are plenty of ups and downs in the grosses for various reasons. Phase 1: 1. Ironman: 585.2 million USD 2. The Incredible Hulk: 263.4 million USD 3. Ironman 2: 623.9 million USD 4. Thor: 449.3 million USD 5. Captain America 1: 370.6 million USD 6. The Avengers: 1.5 billion USD Phase 2: 7. Ironman 3: 1.215 billion USD 8. Thor: TDW: 644.6 million USD 9. Captain America: WS: 714.3 million USD 10. Guardians of the Galaxy: 773.3 million USD 11. Avengers: AoU: 1.405 billion USD 12. Ant-Man: 519.3 million USD Phase 3: 13. Captain America: CW: 1.132 billion USD 14. Doctor Strange: 677.7 million USD Age of Ultron made less than The Avengers, but... Every Non-Avengers Phase 2 Film consistently made more money than every Non-Avengers Phase 1 Film, with the sole exception of Ant-Man, which clocked in with less than the first two Ironman films. But it still made more than Incredible Hulk, Thor, and Cap: TFA. Ironman 3 is the most successful Ironman film to date. Thor: The Dark World, despite easily being the worst MCU film, still beat its predecessor. Captain America: The Winter Soldier beat its predecessor to a bloody pulp and then buried the carcass. The Guardians of the Galaxy outdid Ironman 2, Phase 1's most financially successful Non-Avengers film by over a hundred million. And so far every Non-Avengers Phase 3 Film has continued the trend. Captain America: Civil War outpaced The Winter Soldier by $400 million. No, it's not an Avengers film. It is an Captain America film. The next Avengers film will be Infinity War. Doctor Strange, the new weird character on the block performed as well as everyone was expecting him to. Like Thor, Cap: TFA, and Ant-Man before it, it pulled a healthy, but average box office. In fact, its the most successful new sub-franchise in the series second only to the first Guardians. And yes, the other previously new properties ( Ironman 1, Hulk, Thor, Cap: TFA, Guardians, and Ant-Man) are the films to compare it to. Just as Black Panther and Captain Marvel will be compared to the other previously new properties when they come out. And Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 has already beaten its predecessor at the box office, and still isn't done yet. So this is not a downward spiral. This is a series of franchises that are consistently performing better and better. On the one hand, through this lens, that's correct. But they still made the most box-office bank back in 2012, innit? Their goal should be to top that, I would think, especially with the Thanos duology or whatever it's going to be. Well, the thing of it is, the only thing that's going to outpace an Avengers film at the box office is another Avengers film. I don't think anyone is expecting the films about the individual heroes or factions to outdo the event film. Yes, Age of Ultron failed to do it, but that was because it's just not as much fun as the original was. I had less inclination to go see it again, because its just a heavily movie. |
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 17, 2017 2:23:15 GMT
On the one hand, through this lens, that's correct. But they still made the most box-office bank back in 2012, innit? Their goal should be to top that, I would think, especially with the Thanos duology or whatever it's going to be. Well, the thing of it is, the only thing that's going to outpace an Avengers film at the box office is another Avengers film. I don't think anyone is expecting the films about the individual heroes or factions to outdo the event film. Yes, Age of Ultron failed to do it, but that was because it's just not as much fun as the original was. I had less inclination to go see it again, because its just a heavily movie. Fair enough. And it should go without saying that your analysis (by franchise rather than as a whole) had more depth and dimensionality than just setting the bar at Avengers-level money, so that's another avenue to explore. To that end Guardians 2 HAS already outpaced the original, I think. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 2:37:44 GMT
Well, the thing of it is, the only thing that's going to outpace an Avengers film at the box office is another Avengers film. I don't think anyone is expecting the films about the individual heroes or factions to outdo the event film. Yes, Age of Ultron failed to do it, but that was because it's just not as much fun as the original was. I had less inclination to go see it again, because its just a heavily movie. Fair enough. And it should go without saying that your analysis (by franchise rather than as a whole) had more depth and dimensionality than just setting the bar at Avengers-level money, so that's another avenue to explore. To that end Guardians 2 HAS already outpaced the original, I think. Yep. By over $60 million at this point. Not bad for a cast of characters that were previously even more obscure and unheard of than Ant-Man. |
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 17, 2017 12:05:02 GMT
Fair enough. And it should go without saying that your analysis (by franchise rather than as a whole) had more depth and dimensionality than just setting the bar at Avengers-level money, so that's another avenue to explore. To that end Guardians 2 HAS already outpaced the original, I think. Yep. By over $60 million at this point. Not bad for a cast of characters that were previously even more obscure and unheard of than Ant-Man. When I first heard they were even doing a Guardians movie I thought they were drunk on hubris and bordering on total lunacy. Two billion dollars later, and -- I still do! I'm digging in! That third movie is going to flop and only make, uh, half a billion. That will prove me right. Yeah. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2017 0:34:44 GMT
Yep. By over $60 million at this point. Not bad for a cast of characters that were previously even more obscure and unheard of than Ant-Man. When I first heard they were even doing a Guardians movie I thought they were drunk on hubris and bordering on total lunacy. Two billion dollars later, and -- I still do! I'm digging in! That third movie is going to flop and only make, uh, half a billion. That will prove me right. Yeah. To quote Honest Trailers: "Marvel Studios brings you the movie you would swear was made... on a dare." And from a director who's had a somewhat rocky history. Guardians isn't the first good movie Gunn's ever made, but he's hardly what I would call a sure bet. And yet, as far as I can tell, Feige just completely let him off the chain and let him make Guardians HIS movie. Then again, Marvel seems to be absolutely thriving on directors NO ONE would call "sure bets." When I first heard the original Ironman was being made, I scoffed. When I heard the guy who directed Elf was at the helm, I dry-heaved. When I heard Robert Downey, jr. was starring, I could only shake my head in astonishment. "What the hell are they thinking?" I asked aloud. "Elf's director? A washed-up druggie has-been? This is gonna suck!" Then I was almost literally dragged to the movie by friends and I've never been happier to have egg on my face. Taught me my lesson though and I've tended to be a lot more optimistic of their directorial choices since then. ...Okay, yeah, so I'm not quite old enough to have appreciated Downey during the original high point of his career, and only knew of him from the media circus surrounding him and various comedians making fun of him for it. |
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 19, 2017 14:42:27 GMT
When I first heard they were even doing a Guardians movie I thought they were drunk on hubris and bordering on total lunacy. Two billion dollars later, and -- I still do! I'm digging in! That third movie is going to flop and only make, uh, half a billion. That will prove me right. Yeah. To quote Honest Trailers: "Marvel Studios brings you the movie you would swear was made... on a dare." And from a director who's had a somewhat rocky history. Guardians isn't the first good movie Gunn's ever made, but he's hardly what I would call a sure bet. And yet, as far as I can tell, Feige just completely let him off the chain and let him make Guardians HIS movie. Then again, Marvel seems to be absolutely thriving on directors NO ONE would call "sure bets." When I first heard the original Ironman was being made, I scoffed. When I heard the guy who directed Elf was at the helm, I dry-heaved. When I heard Robert Downey, jr. was starring, I could only shake my head in astonishment. "What the hell are they thinking?" I asked aloud. "Elf's director? A washed-up druggie has-been? This is gonna suck!" Then I was almost literally dragged to the movie by friends and I've never been happier to have egg on my face. Taught me my lesson though and I've tended to be a lot more optimistic of their directorial choices since then. ...Okay, yeah, so I'm not quite old enough to have appreciated Downey during the original high point of his career, and only knew of him from the media circus surrounding him and various comedians making fun of him for it. I don't think anybody was prepared for how good Iron Man was. |
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jun 19, 2017 16:12:27 GMT
I'd say MCU is currently in its all-time high. Before, you'd get a great movie once in a while but mostly get just decent to good movies. Nowadays you know an MCU movie will at least be good, with more movies coming out as great.
|
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 19, 2017 16:17:34 GMT
I'd say MCU is currently in its all-time high. Before, you'd get a great movie once in a while but mostly get just decent to good movies. Nowadays you know an MCU movie will at least be good, with more movies coming out as great. The question is: can they translate that into consistent box-office success? They've got a winner in Guardians 2, but the question is: what, if anything, will outperform The Avengers? And will it be a female-led film? I posted about this at great length in my Catwoman thread, as well. |
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jun 19, 2017 17:20:26 GMT
I'd say MCU is currently in its all-time high. Before, you'd get a great movie once in a while but mostly get just decent to good movies. Nowadays you know an MCU movie will at least be good, with more movies coming out as great. The question is: can they translate that into consistent box-office success? They've got a winner in Guardians 2, but the question is: what, if anything, will outperform The Avengers? And will it be a female-led film? I posted about this at great length in my Catwoman thread, as well. Oh definitely, and they've been doing it already. The average box office income of MCU films have steadily been rising for every Phase they have. Though none of the other movies ever reach the numbers of the Avengers, pretty much every movie after Phase one has at least made 500 million, with most of them playing around the 700 million to 1 billion mark. Basically, the average of Phase 2 was better than the average of Phase 1. And from the looks of things it seems the average of Phase 3 will also beat out the average of Phase 2, what with movies like Ragnarok, BP and Infinity Wars on the horizon. You're concentrating too much on the success of the Avengers while neglecting the patterns of the other movies. Consistency is key, not just single movie. And from a bigger perspective, MCU is still steadily increasing and is not showing any signs of decline. |
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 19, 2017 17:38:02 GMT
The question is: can they translate that into consistent box-office success? They've got a winner in Guardians 2, but the question is: what, if anything, will outperform The Avengers? And will it be a female-led film? I posted about this at great length in my Catwoman thread, as well. Oh definitely, and they've been doing it already. The average box office income of MCU films have steadily been rising for every Phase they have. Though none of the other movies ever reach the numbers of the Avengers, pretty much every movie after Phase one has at least made 500 million, with most of them playing around the 700 million to 1 billion mark. Basically, the average of Phase 2 was better than the average of Phase 1. And from the looks of things it seems the average of Phase 3 will also beat out the average of Phase 2, what with movies like Ragnarok, BP and Infinity Wars on the horizon. You're concentrating too much on the success of the Avengers while neglecting the patterns of the other movies. Consistency is key, not just single movie. And from a bigger perspective, MCU is still steadily increasing and is not showing any signs of decline. I think you're right. raptor made a version of this point but your Phase-by-Phase breakdown feels much more accessible to me. Are you sure about the averages increasing? I can average them myself, obviously, but I'm too busy right now. |
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jun 19, 2017 18:01:05 GMT
Oh definitely, and they've been doing it already. The average box office income of MCU films have steadily been rising for every Phase they have. Though none of the other movies ever reach the numbers of the Avengers, pretty much every movie after Phase one has at least made 500 million, with most of them playing around the 700 million to 1 billion mark. Basically, the average of Phase 2 was better than the average of Phase 1. And from the looks of things it seems the average of Phase 3 will also beat out the average of Phase 2, what with movies like Ragnarok, BP and Infinity Wars on the horizon. You're concentrating too much on the success of the Avengers while neglecting the patterns of the other movies. Consistency is key, not just single movie. And from a bigger perspective, MCU is still steadily increasing and is not showing any signs of decline. I think you're right. raptor made a version of this point but your Phase-by-Phase breakdown feels much more accessible to me. Are you sure about the averages increasing? I can average them myself, obviously, but I'm too busy right now. Well basing from the list of Weirdraptor (because I'm too lazy to research the BO numbers for all the movies) then the average is as follows: Phase 1: $632 million Phase 2: $878 million Phase 3: $884 million It should be noted however that Phase 3 still doesn't have the benefit of an Avengers movie to pad up its numbers. GOTG2 also isn't complete with its run yet. If we only consider CA:CW and Dr. Strange then Phase 3 average goes up to $904 million. Still, you can already see the increase in average. Or if you prefer we could do it this way: CA:TWS earned almost twice as much as CA:TFA. Then CA:CW again beat out CA:TWS by about 400 million. IM3 earned almost as much as IM2 and IM1 combined. GOTG2 earned 100 million more than GOTG1 Thor:TDW earned 200 million more than Thor 1 Dr. Strange earned more than any solo origin movie from both phase 1 and 2. Ant-man earned more than TIH, CA:TFA and Thor - all of whom were more well-known characters than him. The only title that went down in earnings was Avengers AOU, but it's only $100 million short than the first Avengers which, when compared to the increase of profit in other movies, really isn't that big a failure. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 21:20:13 GMT
I'd say MCU is currently in its all-time high. Before, you'd get a great movie once in a while but mostly get just decent to good movies. Nowadays you know an MCU movie will at least be good, with more movies coming out as great. The question is: can they translate that into consistent box-office success? They've got a winner in Guardians 2, but the question is: what, if anything, will outperform The Avengers? And will it be a female-led film? I posted about this at great length in my Catwoman thread, as well. I think one thing to keep in mind that we really don't have a frame of reference to compare the MCU to. Sure, there have been shared universes before, but not like this. Sure, the typical way of looking at film series is that ALL the grosses should just keep going up and up with each new entry, but the MCU has been anything BUT a typical film franchise. Its the first of its kind among Shared Film Universes. I've never seen a film series do this before. And does anything need to outperform The Avengers? It's almost more like a TV show, but on the big screen. |
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jun 19, 2017 21:46:46 GMT
In fact I'd go as far to say as the MCU is the ONLY film franchise I know of who generally keep getting better with each successive movie they put out. Most franchises have had a drop in quality after their first few good films. LOTR and the hobbit trilogies, Star Wars and the prequels, Divergent series, the Spiderman movies, etc.
X-men has been too inconsistent to detect any patterns. Harry Potter was fairly OK I guess, ending with a strong few films but they tended to go low in the middle. For the MCU, although there have been a few peaks and dips in quality, the general line has been climbing up as time progresses.
|
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 20, 2017 17:16:49 GMT
In fact I'd go as far to say as the MCU is the ONLY film franchise I know of who generally keep getting better with each successive movie they put out. Most franchises have had a drop in quality after their first few good films. LOTR and the hobbit trilogies, Star Wars and the prequels, Divergent series, the Spiderman movies, etc. X-men has been too inconsistent to detect any patterns. Harry Potter was fairly OK I guess, ending with a strong few films but they tended to go low in the middle. For the MCU, although there have been a few peaks and dips in quality, the general line has been climbing up as time progresses. You think they'll be able to keep it up during Phase Four? |
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jun 20, 2017 17:32:04 GMT
In fact I'd go as far to say as the MCU is the ONLY film franchise I know of who generally keep getting better with each successive movie they put out. Most franchises have had a drop in quality after their first few good films. LOTR and the hobbit trilogies, Star Wars and the prequels, Divergent series, the Spiderman movies, etc. X-men has been too inconsistent to detect any patterns. Harry Potter was fairly OK I guess, ending with a strong few films but they tended to go low in the middle. For the MCU, although there have been a few peaks and dips in quality, the general line has been climbing up as time progresses. You think they'll be able to keep it up during Phase Four? I think so. I think the decline will come around Phase 5. The reason I say this is because people will still be hyped up after Infinity Wars and I think the MCU has a good chance to do something interesting after Infinity Wars so Phase 4 would still be a great opportunity for them. Phase 5 is when I start to be doubtful. No doubt they'll still be good, just don't know if they can maintain the peak. |
|
|
|
Post by kuatorises on Jun 20, 2017 17:55:03 GMT
We all know the MCU peaked financially with The Avengers in 2012. That was five long years ago. In that time the mighty and beloved and critically lauded DCEU has launched, and the X-movies have had a string of smash successes with Days of Future Past, Deadpool, and Logan. Can Marvel/Disney ever get back to their previous peak, or will they continue to decline in perpetuity? I'm worried that the MCU will fade into obscurity and become second-rate, you guys. I'm not sure why people even bother with this guy when even a blind man can see that he trolling. |
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 20, 2017 18:10:12 GMT
I'm not sure why people even bother with this guy when even a blind man can see that he trolling. Don't lecture me, man! I see through the lies of posters like you. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire. |
|
|
|
Post by merh on Jun 21, 2017 0:00:49 GMT
I'm not sure why people even bother with this guy when even a blind man can see that he trolling. Don't lecture me, man! I see through the lies of posters like you. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire. Cold- Avengers was a fluke. I joined imdb to post about Thor after lurking for months & having used IMDB as a resource for cast lists. I moved over to The Avengers board around December prior to the movie coming out like many Marvel fans. We were trolled by the DC fans who told us our movie was going to bomb financially & critically. After the reviews came out in April, the DC guys reluctantly, grudgingly admitted it wasn't a critical flop but nothing like TDK!!!!!. So the board was nervous that opening weekend. I remember watching the reports. Disney was floored. They were expecting far less as theaters sold out. We had pre-bought our Friday first show IMAX tickets & my daughter lover it so much, we pre-bought tickets for the Sunday available show. Theaters were adding showings like crazy. I knew people who went to see it only to learn it was sold out. As I said, Avengers blew everyone away. It was more than all the other Marvel movies that had come before. |
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 21, 2017 0:14:30 GMT
Don't lecture me, man! I see through the lies of posters like you. I do not fear the dark side as you do. I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire. Cold- Avengers was a fluke.I joined imdb to post about Thor after lurking for months & having used IMDB as a resource for cast lists. I moved over to The Avengers board around December prior to the movie coming out like many Marvel fans. We were trolled by the DC fans who told us our movie was going to bomb financially & critically. After the reviews came out in April, the DC guys reluctantly, grudgingly admitted it wasn't a critical flop but nothing like TDK!!!!!. So the board was nervous that opening weekend. I remember watching the reports. Disney was floored. They were expecting far less as theaters sold out. We had pre-bought our Friday first show IMAX tickets & my daughter lover it so much, we pre-bought tickets for the Sunday available show. Theaters were adding showings like crazy. I knew people who went to see it only to learn it was sold out. As I said, Avengers blew everyone away. It was more than all the other Marvel movies that had come before. So you disagree with these other blokes who are saying the MCU is generally ascendant? You think they can never top Avengers? Not even with the Thanos movies? |
|
