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Post by Larcen26 on Jun 8, 2017 19:32:24 GMT
I post this with no support for any agenda or position. I'm just curious what people on any side of any fence would think in comparison to the all female showings of Wonder Woman (and the responses to it), if anybody even suggested an all African American showing of Black Panther.
Is there a difference? Would you care? Would that be acceptable? If yes, why? If no, why not? And how do your answers to this compare to how you felt about the all female showings of Wonder Woman? Is there a difference? - Slight. Would you care?
- not even one tiny little bit. Would that be acceptable?
- Sure. Why not? If yes, why?
- Because who cares? If no, why not?
- See above. And how do your answers to this compare to how you felt about the all female showings of Wonder Woman? - They are exactly the same. It is such a non-issue it baffles me why anybody would even care, let alone be angry.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 8, 2017 21:45:16 GMT
Is there a difference? - Slight. Would you care?
- not even one tiny little bit. Would that be acceptable?
- Sure. Why not? If yes, why?
- Because who cares? If no, why not?
- See above. And how do your answers to this compare to how you felt about the all female showings of Wonder Woman? - They are exactly the same. It is such a non-issue it baffles me why anybody would even care, let alone be angry. I agree, but you know they would be. You would recognize that an all white male event would not be accepted I'm sure. The group would be branded as racist immediately and people involved would be fired if possible. Does that makes sense or change any of you thoughts on the issue?
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Post by Larcen26 on Jun 8, 2017 23:27:57 GMT
Is there a difference? - Slight. Would you care?
- not even one tiny little bit. Would that be acceptable?
- Sure. Why not? If yes, why?
- Because who cares? If no, why not?
- See above. And how do your answers to this compare to how you felt about the all female showings of Wonder Woman? - They are exactly the same. It is such a non-issue it baffles me why anybody would even care, let alone be angry. I agree, but you know they would be. You would recognize that an all white male event would not be accepted I'm sure. The group would be branded as racist immediately and people involved would be fired if possible. Does that makes sense or change any of you thoughts on the issue?
Of course it's different, but it doesn't change my mind. That argument is for a theoretical discussion of morality or something like that, not for real application in the world... In the real world it's closer to a kid who is given everything being told he can't have something and getting mad because it's not fair.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 9, 2017 0:01:32 GMT
Of course it's different, but it doesn't change my mind. That argument is for a theoretical discussion of morality or something like that, not for real application in the world... In the real world it's closer to a kid who is given everything being told he can't have something and getting mad because it's not fair. Oh it's totally theoretical and I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here and not really supporting anything.
So you're saying it's different because a group in the majority must always include minorities but minority groups can segregate themselves at their own discretion without question. I don't know about that.
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Post by Larcen26 on Jun 9, 2017 3:26:12 GMT
Of course it's different, but it doesn't change my mind. That argument is for a theoretical discussion of morality or something like that, not for real application in the world... In the real world it's closer to a kid who is given everything being told he can't have something and getting mad because it's not fair. Oh it's totally theoretical and I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here and not really supporting anything.
So you're saying it's different because a group in the majority must always include minorities but minority groups can segregate themselves at their own discretion without question. I don't know about that.
I'm more saying that the majority has excluded the minorities either intentionally (segregated schools, country clubs, old fraternal organizations) or unintentionally (societal pressures, simply outnumbering other groups) but when the shoe is on the other foot, the majority turns into Varuca Salt saying it's unfair that they are being excluded. Notice that the argument is never "We know that excluding minorities is wrong and treated them in an unfair manner and we want to make a better world free of segregation, so now that WE have gotten rid of all of our own segregation, we feel it is only ethical on your part to not segregate us, thank you so much." it's "Look at them...can you imagine the uproar they would cause if we tried to make a Whites only or Men's only screening? Damn Politically correct hypocrites, things used to be so much better, we need to Make America Great Again! And it's all about ethics in gaming journalism." It's a group that has always had power discovering something that they are being told they can't do and freaking out...it's as simple at that. But yes, if you want to be a Vulcan, it is technically and mathematically inequitable for one group to purposefully exclude another group from an activity.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 9, 2017 3:39:50 GMT
I'm more saying that the majority has excluded the minorities either intentionally (segregated schools, country clubs, old fraternal organizations) or unintentionally (societal pressures, simply outnumbering other groups) but when the shoe is on the other foot, the majority turns into Varuca Salt saying it's unfair that they are being excluded. Notice that the argument is never "We know that excluding minorities is wrong and treated them in an unfair manner and we want to make a better world free of segregation, so now that WE have gotten rid of all of our own segregation, we feel it is only ethical on your part to not segregate us, thank you so much." it's "Look at them...can you imagine the uproar they would cause if we tried to make a Whites only or Men's only screening? Damn Politically correct hypocrites, things used to be so much better, we need to Make America Great Again! And it's all about ethics in gaming journalism." It's a group that has always had power discovering something that they are being told they can't do and freaking out...it's as simple at that. But yes, if you want to be a Vulcan, it is technically and mathematically inequitable for one group to purposefully exclude another group from an activity. Wouldn't the correct decision be to treat everybody equally? So if it's ok for one group it's ok for any other group?
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Post by Larcen26 on Jun 9, 2017 13:18:25 GMT
I'm more saying that the majority has excluded the minorities either intentionally (segregated schools, country clubs, old fraternal organizations) or unintentionally (societal pressures, simply outnumbering other groups) but when the shoe is on the other foot, the majority turns into Varuca Salt saying it's unfair that they are being excluded. Notice that the argument is never "We know that excluding minorities is wrong and treated them in an unfair manner and we want to make a better world free of segregation, so now that WE have gotten rid of all of our own segregation, we feel it is only ethical on your part to not segregate us, thank you so much." it's "Look at them...can you imagine the uproar they would cause if we tried to make a Whites only or Men's only screening? Damn Politically correct hypocrites, things used to be so much better, we need to Make America Great Again! And it's all about ethics in gaming journalism." It's a group that has always had power discovering something that they are being told they can't do and freaking out...it's as simple at that. But yes, if you want to be a Vulcan, it is technically and mathematically inequitable for one group to purposefully exclude another group from an activity. Wouldn't the correct decision be to treat everybody equally? So if it's ok for one group it's ok for any other group? Like I said...on Vulcan, taking out everything but logic and mathematical certainties, yes.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 9, 2017 13:23:25 GMT
Wouldn't the correct decision be to treat everybody equally? So if it's ok for one group it's ok for any other group? Like I said...on Vulcan, taking out everything but logic and mathematical certainties, yes. Ok, this is interesting. So logically there's nothing wrong with any one group assembling, whether it's a minority or majority group or anything else.
What quality other than logic makes it wrong then?
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Post by Larcen26 on Jun 9, 2017 13:42:50 GMT
Like I said...on Vulcan, taking out everything but logic and mathematical certainties, yes. Ok, this is interesting. So logically there's nothing wrong with any one group assembling, whether it's a minority or majority group or anything else.
What quality other than logic makes it wrong then?
Everything outside of logic. Life, experience, history, previous precedence, society, emotion... Like I said...nobody is mad about it except for those who are acting like petulant children. Are you mad about it? Do you find it an affront to your white christian maleness? Or do you not care? If you don't care, you have already answered your question. If you DO care, you need to ask why. And in the end, it will boil down to not liking being excluded from things..."Why do THEY get to exclude ME when I can't exclude THEM?" You are being self involved if you don't then use that experience to wonder what it's like to be from a different group. If we lived in a Utopia where true equality exists and has existed, that's one thing. But inequities exist all over the place... It's like Political Correctness, logic dictates that it is censoring free speech... In the real world, it's called not being a dick.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 9, 2017 16:13:26 GMT
Everything outside of logic. Life, experience, history, previous precedence, society, emotion... Like I said...nobody is mad about it except for those who are acting like petulant children. Are you mad about it? Do you find it an affront to your white christian maleness? Or do you not care? If you don't care, you have already answered your question. If you DO care, you need to ask why. And in the end, it will boil down to not liking being excluded from things..."Why do THEY get to exclude ME when I can't exclude THEM?" You are being self involved if you don't then use that experience to wonder what it's like to be from a different group. If we lived in a Utopia where true equality exists and has existed, that's one thing. But inequities exist all over the place... It's like Political Correctness, logic dictates that it is censoring free speech... In the real world, it's called not being a dick. Oh no, I'm not mad about it. I'm just musing over the reality that if a group of white guy wanted to be exclusive it would be the worst kind of racism, but if any other group wanted to it would be 100% cool. I would care that it not be considered racist for one group to do it if we think it's cool for everybody else, and I'm not sure history, or precedence is a justification for such a vast discrepancy about the acceptability of such groups.
And I'm not christian in the slightest by the way. I wouldn't want to be confused with any form of theism and I would actually be visibly repulsed by the thought if somebody asked me in person. I wouldn't hide it for sure.
I guess I'm not asking why I can't exclude a group, because I wouldn't want to, I'm just wondering why it's ok that they do. I suppose the irony I see is that I feel like I am perfectly able to live in the Utopia you describe. And from where I stand it's not just the people who are racist that are the obstacle to true equality, but also the people who claim to be for true equality but do things like organizing segregated groups and saying it's ok to do so because of history.
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Post by Larcen26 on Jun 9, 2017 18:26:58 GMT
Everything outside of logic. Life, experience, history, previous precedence, society, emotion... Like I said...nobody is mad about it except for those who are acting like petulant children. Are you mad about it? Do you find it an affront to your white christian maleness? Or do you not care? If you don't care, you have already answered your question. If you DO care, you need to ask why. And in the end, it will boil down to not liking being excluded from things..."Why do THEY get to exclude ME when I can't exclude THEM?" You are being self involved if you don't then use that experience to wonder what it's like to be from a different group. If we lived in a Utopia where true equality exists and has existed, that's one thing. But inequities exist all over the place... It's like Political Correctness, logic dictates that it is censoring free speech... In the real world, it's called not being a dick. Oh no, I'm not mad about it. I'm just musing over the reality that if a group of white guy wanted to be exclusive it would be the worst kind of racism, but if any other group wanted to it would be 100% cool. I would care that it not be considered racist for one group to do it if we think it's cool for everybody else, and I'm not sure history, or precedence is a justification for such a vast discrepancy about the acceptability of such groups.
And I'm not christian in the slightest by the way. I wouldn't want to be confused with any form of theism and I would actually be visibly repulsed by the thought if somebody asked me in person. I wouldn't hide it for sure.
I guess I'm not asking why I can't exclude a group, because I wouldn't want to, I'm just wondering why it's ok that they do. I suppose the irony I see is that I feel like I am perfectly able to live in the Utopia you describe. And from where I stand it's not just the people who are racist that are the obstacle to true equality, but also the people who claim to be for true equality but do things like organizing segregated groups and saying it's ok to do so because of history.
And again, ultimately, that's true if you are taking a completely literal/logical/mathematical view of things. The Americans with Disabilities Act is not based in equality, it is a law that forces concessions for a minority group. This is a thought exercise that will always come out to a different answer than the reality. Just like the ultimate, logical, literal, mathematical and irrefutable answer to all Environmental issues is to eliminate the human race. Just because you have a literally correct answer, doesn't always mean that it is the RIGHT answer. Black and white answers are a myth, everything is grey.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 9, 2017 20:41:46 GMT
Oh no, I'm not mad about it. I'm just musing over the reality that if a group of white guy wanted to be exclusive it would be the worst kind of racism, but if any other group wanted to it would be 100% cool. I would care that it not be considered racist for one group to do it if we think it's cool for everybody else, and I'm not sure history, or precedence is a justification for such a vast discrepancy about the acceptability of such groups.
And I'm not christian in the slightest by the way. I wouldn't want to be confused with any form of theism and I would actually be visibly repulsed by the thought if somebody asked me in person. I wouldn't hide it for sure.
I guess I'm not asking why I can't exclude a group, because I wouldn't want to, I'm just wondering why it's ok that they do. I suppose the irony I see is that I feel like I am perfectly able to live in the Utopia you describe. And from where I stand it's not just the people who are racist that are the obstacle to true equality, but also the people who claim to be for true equality but do things like organizing segregated groups and saying it's ok to do so because of history.
And again, ultimately, that's true if you are taking a completely literal/logical/mathematical view of things. The Americans with Disabilities Act is not based in equality, it is a law that forces concessions for a minority group. This is a thought exercise that will always come out to a different answer than the reality. Just like the ultimate, logical, literal, mathematical and irrefutable answer to all Environmental issues is to eliminate the human race. Just because you have a literally correct answer, doesn't always mean that it is the RIGHT answer. Black and white answers are a myth, everything is grey. I like it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 17:50:56 GMT
I went to an all American showing of Captain America
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 18:34:29 GMT
No. Just no. Remember those women only screenings of Wonder Woman?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2017 18:36:50 GMT
I went to an all American showing of Captain America No I was also there.
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Post by ArArArchStanton on Jun 11, 2017 20:23:23 GMT
I went to an all American showing of Captain America Yeah I heard there were a lot of impromptu all American showings. Those xenophobic bastards!!
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