jackbrock
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@jackbrock
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Post by jackbrock on Apr 25, 2023 1:30:05 GMT
Should abortion be allowed in the States again.
Explain.
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 25, 2023 2:29:25 GMT
I think people who want to play the 'rape/incest/medical crisis' card should actually stand by their so called convictions and demand all 'convenience' abortions be banned, they say it NEEDS to be legal because rape/incest/medical crisis!, so those should be the only ones allowed.
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
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Post by The Lost One on Apr 25, 2023 9:23:14 GMT
I think people who want to play the 'rape/incest/medical crisis' card should actually stand by their so called convictions and demand all 'convenience' abortions be banned, they say it NEEDS to be legal because rape/incest/medical crisis!, so those should be the only ones allowed. That would be impossible to enforce though - people could just lie.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Apr 25, 2023 12:42:27 GMT
There is nothing in the Constitution about abortion nor do I believe the Constitution gives Congress the right to legislate abortion. Therefore, it should be up to each state and/or municipality as to whether to allow abortions.
The driving reason for having children is to pass on one’s genes to another generation. If I can’t live forever, perhaps my genes will. Here’s a case in point: Amy and Bill are upper middle-class Christians in their thirties who go to church every Sunday. They finally decide to have children. The doctor tells Amy that her fetus has major problems and will probably require round-the-clock care and will probably die within ten years. By the time Fetus dies, child-bearing years will be history. Amy & Bill’s genes would die with them. However, if Amy has an abortion, the next pregnancy has a 99% chance of being normal. What would YOU do?
Here’s a question for all you theists out there: Why does Yahweh/God/Jehovah/Lord allow defective births in the first place?
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 25, 2023 12:57:07 GMT
I think people who want to play the 'rape/incest/medical crisis' card should actually stand by their so called convictions and demand all 'convenience' abortions be banned, they say it NEEDS to be legal because rape/incest/medical crisis!, so those should be the only ones allowed. That would be impossible to enforce though - people could just lie.
Suddenly 1 million MORE women get rape-pregnant? Yeah that's soooooo believable, if that happened they may have to start enforcing more protocols, like mandatory DNA tests to prove it's not the boyfriend's, after all if they were raped, the DOCTORS have an obligation to report it to the police who would have to investigate, and any woman found lying would have to be arrested for falsely reporting a crime.
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 25, 2023 12:59:55 GMT
There is nothing in the Constitution about abortion nor do I believe the Constitution gives Congress the right to legislate abortion. Therefore, it should be up to each state and/or municipality as to whether to allow abortions. The driving reason for having children is to pass on one’s genes to another generation. If I can’t live forever, perhaps my genes will. Here’s a case in point: Amy and Bill are upper middle-class Christians in their thirties who go to church every Sunday. They finally decide to have children. The doctor tells Amy that her fetus has major problems and will probably require round-the-clock care and will probably die within ten years. By the time Fetus dies, child-bearing years will be history. Amy & Bill’s genes would die with them. However, if Amy has an abortion, the next pregnancy has a 99% chance of being normal. What would YOU do? Here’s a question for all you theists out there: Why does Yahweh/God/Jehovah/Lord allow defective births in the first place?
And what if the doctor's wrong? Worse, what if he's flat out lying to terrify the woman to get an abortion? Think it doesn't happen? Strangely enough there are thousands of so called 'crippled/retarded/birth defect' people walking around perfectly normal and healthy, must be tens of thousands of medical MIRACLES, right? What a wonderful thing for the doctors, if the women abort, they will never find out whether or not the baby they were terrified into aborting had ANYTHING wrong with it or not.
Nobody ever cares when it's the DOCTOR trying to take her choice away.
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jackbrock
Sophomore
@jackbrock
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Post by jackbrock on Apr 25, 2023 22:38:14 GMT
There is nothing in the Constitution about abortion nor do I believe the Constitution gives Congress the right to legislate abortion. Therefore, it should be up to each state and/or municipality as to whether to allow abortions. The driving reason for having children is to pass on one’s genes to another generation. If I can’t live forever, perhaps my genes will. Here’s a case in point: Amy and Bill are upper middle-class Christians in their thirties who go to church every Sunday. They finally decide to have children. The doctor tells Amy that her fetus has major problems and will probably require round-the-clock care and will probably die within ten years. By the time Fetus dies, child-bearing years will be history. Amy & Bill’s genes would die with them. However, if Amy has an abortion, the next pregnancy has a 99% chance of being normal. What would YOU do? Here’s a question for all you theists out there: Why does Yahweh/God/Jehovah/Lord allow defective births in the first place? There are a lot of abortions that happen naturally. The egg gets fertilized but doesn't attach to the womb. The woman doesn't know she got pregnant & just thinks she is having a normal period.
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Post by Arlon10 on Apr 25, 2023 22:42:43 GMT
The problem with banning abortion is not that anyone thinks abortion is a good idea. Very few people do.
The problem with banning abortion is that there are numerous litigious complications. Will there be an exception for rape? How will mere claims of rape be litigated and when? How long can it take a women to realize she is pregnant? When does life begin? Do standard contraceptives discard the product of fertilization?
Did God split the sky open and come down riding a white horse and answer all those questions for you? Congratulations. Otherwise, because of those complications abortions are likely to take place at about the same rate as during Roe v. Wade, or perhaps higher. Putting a six week time limit on abortion might increase the number of abortions because women will be pressured to have an abortion "now or never."
The Trump base consists mainly of people who simply do what they are told without questioning it or understanding it. Banning abortion is a rule they accepted without any idea how they might accomplish it.
Sometimes lockstep acceptance of authority can be an efficient thing. It all goes terribly wrong when someone has to explain anything and doesn't show up.
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Post by Arlon10 on Apr 25, 2023 22:52:34 GMT
That would be impossible to enforce though - people could just lie.
Suddenly 1 million MORE women get rape-pregnant? Yeah that's soooooo believable, if that happened they may have to start enforcing more protocols, like mandatory DNA tests to prove it's not the boyfriend's, after all if they were raped, the DOCTORS have an obligation to report it to the police who would have to investigate, and any woman found lying would have to be arrested for falsely reporting a crime.
It might be a good idea to wash after rape as soon as possible, just saying.
Another strategy might be a network of cameras that covers every possible location from which a rapist might attack. Some people were thinking shortly after Dobbs they could do that. I think the reality finally set in though, no that is not possible.
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 26, 2023 5:08:05 GMT
Suddenly 1 million MORE women get rape-pregnant? Yeah that's soooooo believable, if that happened they may have to start enforcing more protocols, like mandatory DNA tests to prove it's not the boyfriend's, after all if they were raped, the DOCTORS have an obligation to report it to the police who would have to investigate, and any woman found lying would have to be arrested for falsely reporting a crime.
It might be a good idea to wash after rape as soon as possible, just saying.
Another strategy might be a network of cameras that covers every possible location from which a rapist might attack. Some people were thinking shortly after Dobbs they could do that. I think the reality finally set in though, no that is not possible.
Since most women know their rapists that would be their own homes, their boyfriends' homes, the bedrooms, etc., but hey if a million more women suddenly got raped/pregnant every single year, clearly privacy could not be allowed anymore. So yeah if women want to lie, they better be prepared to give up something else they value for it.
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 26, 2023 5:10:00 GMT
The problem with banning abortion is not that anyone thinks abortion is a good idea. Very few people do.
The problem with banning abortion is that there are numerous litigious complications. Will there be an exception for rape? How will mere claims of rape be litigated and when? How long can it take a women to realize she is pregnant? When does life begin? Do standard contraceptives discard the product of fertilization?
Did God split the sky open and come down riding a white horse and answer all those questions for you? Congratulations. Otherwise, because of those complications abortions are likely to take place at about the same rate as during Roe v. Wade, or perhaps higher. Putting a six week time limit on abortion might increase the number of abortions because women will be pressured to have an abortion "now or never."
The Trump base consists mainly of people who simply do what they are told without questioning it or understanding it. Banning abortion is a rule they accepted without any idea how they might accomplish it.
Sometimes lockstep acceptance of authority can be an efficient thing. It all goes terribly wrong when someone has to explain anything and doesn't show up.
Or here's a thought, all those women could put on their big girl panties, take $50 out of their own purse, and buy the morning after pill instead of waiting 2-3-4-5 months and then deciding 'oh maybe I should do something so I won't be pregnant ANYMORE'.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Apr 26, 2023 11:08:42 GMT
And what if the doctor's wrong? Worse, what if he's flat out lying to terrify the woman to get an abortion? Think it doesn't happen? Strangely enough there are thousands of so called 'crippled/retarded/birth defect' people walking around perfectly normal and healthy, must be tens of thousands of medical MIRACLES, right? What a wonderful thing for the doctors, if the women abort, they will never find out whether or not the baby they were terrified into aborting had ANYTHING wrong with it or not. Nobody ever cares when it's the DOCTOR trying to take her choice away.
In my country, you’re under no obligation to seek or heed medical advice. Stay home and let Jehovah handle it. Otherwise, you’re playing with biased statistics. The doctor tells some patients that the baby has a 98% chance of being defective and will probably die within ten years. Some of them follow your advice and continue the pregnancy to term. You never see the defective children. Most die, are institutionalized, or are confined to home. You only see those that beat the odds. Just because they appear healthy to you doesn’t mean they are a viable asset to society.
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Post by Arlon10 on Apr 26, 2023 12:03:41 GMT
It might be a good idea to wash after rape as soon as possible, just saying.
Another strategy might be a network of cameras that covers every possible location from which a rapist might attack. Some people were thinking shortly after Dobbs they could do that. I think the reality finally set in though, no that is not possible.
Since most women know their rapists that would be their own homes, their boyfriends' homes, the bedrooms, etc., but hey if a million more women suddenly got raped/pregnant every single year, clearly privacy could not be allowed anymore. So yeah if women want to lie, they better be prepared to give up something else they value for it.
Suppose that suddenly a large number of women report being raped, dramatically increasing the rate of rape such that you believe most of them are lying. How can you tell which ones are telling the truth? Is it your intention to punish them all? What makes you think you can deprive anyone of privacy?
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Post by Rodney Farber on Apr 26, 2023 14:22:42 GMT
There are a lot of abortions that happen naturally. ... By definition, an abortion is the deliberate termination of a pregnancy.
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jackbrock
Sophomore
@jackbrock
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Post by jackbrock on Apr 27, 2023 1:16:36 GMT
There are a lot of abortions that happen naturally. ... By definition, an abortion is the deliberate termination of a pregnancy. It can be deliberate or it can occur as a miscarriage. A miscarriage is still an abortion. From Wikipedia: A bortion is the termination of a pregnancy by removal or expulsion of an embryo or fetus.[nb 1] An abortion that occurs without intervention is known as a miscarriage or "spontaneous abortion"; these occur in approximately 30% to 40% of all pregnancies.
Abortion definition
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Post by Rodney Farber on Apr 28, 2023 13:53:19 GMT
It can be deliberate or it can occur as a miscarriage. A miscarriage is still an abortion. From Wikipedia: ... I guess it's up for debate. My two dictionaries specify "deliberate" and "induced". Since you started this thread, and since you consider miscarriage to be an abortion, would that make a miscarriage at 26 weeks illegal in Texas?
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Post by Karl Aksel on Apr 28, 2023 16:18:16 GMT
There's no point in going into the semantics of the term. The topic is clearly deliberate abortion, not miscarriages, and anyone talking about "abortion" without further qualifiers should be understood to be referring to induced abortion. And that is how most people use the term, anyway. Let's not get side tracked by technicalities.
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Post by Karl Aksel on Apr 28, 2023 20:15:56 GMT
I think people who want to play the 'rape/incest/medical crisis' card should actually stand by their so called convictions and demand all 'convenience' abortions be banned, they say it NEEDS to be legal because rape/incest/medical crisis!, so those should be the only ones allowed. I dare say all "convenience" abortions are early abortions. If you have a late abortion, it's not for "convenience". Personally, I have no problem with early abortions regardless of reason.
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Post by novastar6 on Apr 29, 2023 1:17:54 GMT
Since most women know their rapists that would be their own homes, their boyfriends' homes, the bedrooms, etc., but hey if a million more women suddenly got raped/pregnant every single year, clearly privacy could not be allowed anymore. So yeah if women want to lie, they better be prepared to give up something else they value for it.
Suppose that suddenly a large number of women report being raped, dramatically increasing the rate of rape such that you believe most of them are lying. How can you tell which ones are telling the truth? Is it your intention to punish them all? What makes you think you can deprive anyone of privacy?
Desperate times call for desperate measures, according to the National Library of Medicine, only about 5% of unwanted pregnancies come from rape...so suddenly unwanted pregnancies from rape jump to 100%, a medical impossibility. Steps would HAVE to be taken to determine who is lying or all women would have to be locked up for their own protection since the number of rapists in the country increased 1000fold.
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jackbrock
Sophomore
@jackbrock
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Post by jackbrock on Apr 29, 2023 3:03:37 GMT
It can be deliberate or it can occur as a miscarriage. A miscarriage is still an abortion. From Wikipedia: ... I guess it's up for debate. My two dictionaries specify "deliberate" and "induced". Since you started this thread, and since you consider miscarriage to be an abortion, would that make a miscarriage at 26 weeks illegal in Texas? That depends...if it involved some rich and powerful white person...no. If it involves a non-white person or a middle class woman, then yes. Religious people love making rules for others, not themselves.
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