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Post by Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! on May 8, 2023 5:16:25 GMT
Caution: This thread is open for all spoilers. What is everyone’s thoughts on the movie? Were you surprised by the ending? Were you surprised that none of the Guardians died? What do you think of new team members? How do you think it rates compared to the other 2 volumes? I can kinda see why Bautista is ready to quit the Drax role. His character in this movie cemented him not having any character development. (After this I won’t be hiding any more spoilers).
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 8, 2023 12:56:56 GMT
It's the perfect sendoff for the Gunn-era Guardians. It's just behind the original if we're ranking GOTG films, and it's easily a top ten MCU movie for me. Gunn finds a way to shift tones from tragedy to comedy and back again in ways Taika Waititi just can't figure out. From the beginning, this ragtag group of characters from across the galaxy felt more human than should be possible, given their look, the premise and the tone of these films. It's honestly incredible how alive these characters feel.
Some powerful emotional scenes and kickass action (that hallway fight has all of the Netflix series jealous) made this the emotional rollercoaster of a farewell that was advertised. I was surprised none of the central characters died, and I respect Gunn's decision not to add shock value deaths for the sake of it. My son definitely thought Quill was going to die at the end, he leaned forward in his seat with his hands on his head until Warlock saved him. Still, there was genuine tension as the entire team seemed to be in real peril throughout this story. I don't think the movie would've been worse for adding a few deaths, but like I said, I'm fine with the decision to keep everyone around. There was still plenty of tragedy with those Rocket flashbacks! It wasn't a complete 'happily ever after' though, as Peter and Gamora don't end up together by the end of the film.
Maybe the best part of the movie is that it acts as a payoff for the GOTG franchise as opposed to serving the higher purpose of the MCU. It's not an advertisement for the next movie, it's just completing the story that started all the way back in 2014. The second film's subplot of Rocket's hesitance to truly bond with his new 'family' is explored and brought full circle here. It's an amazingly compelling storyline from start to finish, and how often can you say that about a talking racoon, a tree, and some green folks?
A few minor nitpicks: - There are some decent songs (In The Meantime being chief among them for me), but overall this was the weakest music selection of the franchise.
- Adam Warlock's arc was definitely rushed and didn't necessarily feel earned by the end, but the actor does such a good job that it didn't pull you out of the movie. Makes you wonder how the character's utilization would've been different if not for the whole Gunn getting fired and rehired fiasco a few years ago.
- High Evolutionary was a bit one note, and way too shouty for such a galactic genius. I thought the actor was going for a Ronan the Accuser from GOTG 1 vibe, which was fine for that movie, but I thought we had progressed a little. I suppose he's just another megalomaniac with a god complex, but he acted too much like a schoolyard bully at times, more suited for a minion than a mastermind.
- The heist at that weird galactic sphincter space station went on far too long. There was some funny stuff in there (always great to see Nathan Fillion), but it dragged a little.
- (And this is the most minor of nitpicks, but I had to mention it) Rocket's animal friends, adorable as they were, kind of made no sense from an aesthetic standpoint. This is a space-age world, far beyond even our modern technology, and they were steampunk creations that looked more suited to an Edward Scissorhands sequel. Just felt off. Still, they were great characters, and their final scene was heartbreaking. Honestly, worse than them getting killed, was the rabbit freaking the fuck out in the background as Rocket went berserk.
In case anyone missed this detail, Groot says, "I love you guys," in English as opposed to Groot, toward the end of the film. It's been confirmed by Gunn that the audience is supposed to infer he's still speaking Groot, only we know him well enough now that we could understand what he was saying in that instance. There's a subplot where Gamora can't understand Groot, then by the end of the movie she can, because they've grown closer. I thought it underscored the theme of the movie (of all of the GOTG movies) perfectly. This is more of a (dysfunctional at times) family than just a special forces unit. My wife didn't like that we could understand Groot, because she thought it sets precedence that should be adhered to, but I thought it was brilliant. We don't need to understand him all the time going forward, I just thought it made for a great, subtle moment.
I have to respectfully disagree with the OP, excuse me, the Admiral, on Drax. I think there's always been more to him than he lets on, that's part of his persona. I think back to the great scene in volume 2 where Mantis puts her hand on him to feel what he's thinking as he's quietly sitting, smiling to himself, and she starts crying. He's an oaf, and he can be inconsiderate, but he's always loved his family and shown he'd do anything to protect them. You get to see his paternal instincts kick in when he meets the children at the end of this movie, and he seems happy to retire from the team and essentially help raise these children on Knowhere. I couldn't see that as a plausible ending for the character after the first film, so I'd call that growth.
Speaking of character growth, does anyone in all of Marvel have a better arc than Nebula?! From creepy villain to uneasy ally to fan favorite hero over the course of several films. And it progressed at just the right speed to feel completely earned by the end. She's infinitely (see what I did there?) more interesting in the films than she ever was in the comics.
I'm looking forward to seeing what happens to everyone from here on out. Post-credit scene teases an upcoming Star-Lord story, and of course you have the new Guardians lineup out there, doing what they do best. But do we ever see Gamora and the Ravagers again? (Part of me was hoping Stallone and company would show up later in this one and start kicking ass, but it wasn't their story). Do we ever see those left on Knowhere again? At some point, do some or all of these characters interact with the other cosmic characters from the Eternals post-credit scene?
Whatever happens from here on out, I'm just glad this movie lived up to the hype. It's the movie that was advertised, it's the movie I wanted, it's the movie Gunn wanted to make. Volume 2 might be the weakest of the three, and even that's probably a 7/10 for me. Volume 3 brought everything full circle and stuck the landing, something that seems increasingly difficult to do these days. This movie is at least an 8/10.
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Post by Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! on May 8, 2023 14:42:12 GMT
It's the perfect sendoff for the Gunn-era Guardians. It's just behind the original if we're ranking GOTG films, and it's easily a top ten MCU movie for me. Gunn finds a way to shift tones from tragedy to comedy and back again in ways Taika Waititi just can't figure out. From the beginning, this ragtag group of characters from across the galaxy felt more human than should be possible, given their look, the premise and the tone of these films. It's honestly incredible how alive these characters feel. Some powerful emotional scenes and kickass action (that hallway fight has all of the Netflix series jealous) made this the emotional rollercoaster of a farewell that was advertised. I was surprised none of the central characters died, and I respect Gunn's decision not to add shock value deaths for the sake of it. My son definitely thought Quill was going to die at the end, he leaned forward in his seat with his hands on his head until Warlock saved him. Still, there was genuine tension as the entire team seemed to be in real peril throughout this story. I don't think the movie would've been worse for adding a few deaths, but like I said, I'm fine with the decision to keep everyone around. There was still plenty of tragedy with those Rocket flashbacks! It wasn't a complete 'happily ever after' though, as Peter and Gamora don't end up together by the end of the film. Maybe the best part of the movie is that it acts as a payoff for the GOTG franchise as opposed to serving the higher purpose of the MCU. It's not an advertisement for the next movie, it's just completing the story that started all the way back in 2014. The second film's subplot of Rocket's hesitance to truly bond with his new 'family' is explored and brought full circle here. It's an amazingly compelling storyline from start to finish, and how often can you say that about a talking racoon, a tree, and some green folks? This is a really great review of the movie! And I agree with your take. You should think of being an amateur movie critic. (I’m being serious, I’m not being facetious). Agreed. Yeah I felt his arc was a little rushed also. And after the opening battle royale it was played for laughs a tad bit too much imho. Yes I think you covered all of the weaknesses with this apex antagonist. And I agree with all of them. I also wondered why a guy with his power and genetic genius wouldn’t try to rebuild his face instead of covering it over with some latex mask. I wasn’t as bothered by this. But it could’ve been a little shorter. It fell kind of flat in the middle with some jokes and plot that was stretched a little too far. I was okay with the steampunk animal friends. I felt it helped establish that Rocket wasn’t a unique prototype. But that he wound up being the best (and most useful to the High Evolutionary). And came from many similar experimental creatures. This point is explained in the story. But it’s more more validated in them showing us and not just telling us. I do think that perhaps they got a little too much screen time. There are constant flashbacks throughout the movie involving them. This threw me off because I thought Groot was literally speaking English for the first time. I didn’t know it was metaphorical for the audience supposed to finally being able translate what he says. I think the average audience member will come to the same conclusion that I did. They should have designed that scene to clarify this. You shouldn’t have to read a book or media sources to understand, clarify, or enhance something onscreen. This is a big pet peeve of mine. I actually agree with this. The problem I had was that we see Drax mess up plans throughout the movie out of stupidity. But that wasn’t the real issue. They also literally called him “dumb, stupid, idiot, or moron” more than the previous 2 movies combined. And I get that it lead up to point by the end of the movie where they provide contrast. (The moments in movie that you point out showing his growth). But boy, they drove home the point by having called dumb by other characters more than any of the previous movies he’s been in. By the end of the movie I was imagining Bautista (while making the film) thinking “Didn’t they already throughly establish the stupidity of my character in the other movies already?” And being tired of doing that with no desire do it another movie. Yeah! Nebula definitely had the most growth and character development over the trilogy.
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Post by twothousandonemark on May 8, 2023 14:50:34 GMT
I listened to The Big Picture pod after viewing, forgetting names they had on a writer of an upcoming state of the MCU style book, out this fall I believe. I will be starting a State of the MCU subjective/objective thread probably this week to help marinate - no rush, it'll probably be better suited to ppl who've seen GotG3 so give it a few days.
One key of this movie they touched on - the characters who seemingly had deaths pushed & pulled back... as if we were shown how they might've died, been originally written to... only to pull back & show us how Gunn & likely the actors themselves wished their characters to live.
Another couple of key MCU things they discussed was one of their lead execs was let go recently because she refused to curb progressive traits out of the MCU lest it upset the rest of the world i.e. China. She's gone, we're not likely to hear a thing via corporate agreement settlement. The other common knowledge one is the burned out Visual Effects teams who have for a long while now apparently been overwhelmed with MCU's output rate - film, tv, etc. That strain seems to be showing, & I say good! You can't have everything, where would you put it?? Give us 2-3 films a year, & end it. Stop with the 24/7 MCU content barrage they think we want, with diminishing character/storyline returns.
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Post by twothousandonemark on May 8, 2023 14:55:47 GMT
Caution: This thread is open for all spoilers. What is everyone’s thoughts on the movie? Were you surprised by the ending? Were you surprised that none of the Guardians died? What do you think of new team members? How do you think it rates compared to the other 2 volumes? I can kinda see why Bautista is ready to quit the Drax role. His character in this movie cemented him not having any character development. (After this I won’t be hiding any more spoilers). I went in expecting Drax & one of Gamora/Nebula to die. I don't think Gamora going along with the Ravagers is an ideal character spot for her, & yet that's what they agreed. Zoe Saldana now with The Way of Water & now Vol.3 with back to back downplayed expected character impacts - was not on my bingo card. She does not wish to do MCU again. The new members do nothing much for me. On their own, I'll not be interested. If/when they encounter other more boring characters/teams, then their cameo will be fun. 1-3-2 is my ranking.
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Post by twothousandonemark on May 8, 2023 15:00:59 GMT
- Adam Warlock's arc was definitely rushed and didn't necessarily feel earned by the end, but the actor does such a good job that it didn't pull you out of the movie. Makes you wonder how the character's utilization would've been different if not for the whole Gunn getting fired and rehired fiasco a few years ago. In case anyone missed this detail, Groot says, "I love you guys," in English as opposed to Groot, toward the end of the film. It's been confirmed by Gunn that the audience is supposed to infer he's still speaking Groot, only we know him well enough now that we could understand what he was saying in that instance. I've always read that Adam Warlock had been on the radar for Guardians since their inception, they just didn't have room for his character/story yet. I'd been expecting his appearance since Guardians 2 somewhere without a surprise/spoiler. A character pointed out 'Do you just agree/explain what you think he's saying?' or something... which made me question, is that what we're doing all along?? I did think his I love you guys was a flip, he'd learned English for them. It works either/both ways.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 8, 2023 15:40:17 GMT
Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus!I see what you're saying about Drax. They do ramble on for the sake of comedy, but to the detriment of the character, about how dumb he is in that scene. But as empathy is Mantis's way, she does stick up for him with a great observation, "He's the only one of you who doesn't hate himself." And then makes him forget the conversation ever happened, which is a little creepy in its own way. But as I said in another thread on the topic of Drax, I can see why Bautista wants to move on. It is a somewhat limiting role and I'm sure he wants to see what else is out there. Agreed completely on the Groot English thing, it's confusing. I wasn't 100% sure that was what they were going for until I saw something online about Gunn confirming it on twitter. They probably could've put a hokey line directly beforehand about how you need to listen with your heart or something, I don't know. I love the detail in retrospect, but in real time it's a confusing moment for sure. Thanks for your kind words, sometimes I just start posting my thoughts on a film and I don't realize how long I went on until I'm done talking. I just like reading other people's thoughts, and sharing my own, especially if I liked the movie. These conversations are what make forums like this great.
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Post by thisguy4000 on May 8, 2023 17:19:30 GMT
I’m glad none of the Guardians died. Not so much because it would’ve been too sad, but more because it would’ve been way too cliche at this point.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 8, 2023 19:14:40 GMT
I did appreciate that Gunn ended this incarnation of the team but at the same time made sure to introduce new characters who would carry on the spirit and name of the Guardians and ended it with them doing just that.
George Lucas could have learned from this, taking time to build up new characters during the OT and making it clear that while Luke's adventures were over in ROTJ the new characters were now ready to start theirs. Would've saved us a lot of trouble later.
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jean74
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April Showers and Easter!
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Post by jean74 on May 9, 2023 0:13:42 GMT
Will see this very soon hopefully but that think that there could be a new trilogy like the Star Wars or Star Trek films for a new generation!
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Post by Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! on May 9, 2023 1:02:08 GMT
I did appreciate that Gunn ended this incarnation of the team but at the same time made sure to introduce new characters who would carry on the spirit and name of the Guardians and ended it with them doing just that. George Lucas could have learned from this, taking time to build up new characters during the OT and making it clear that while Luke's adventures were over in ROTJ the new characters were now ready to start theirs. Would've saved us a lot of trouble later. Well that’s just it. Luke’s adventures weren’t over in Lucas’ ideas for a sequel trilogy. That was Disney’s idea for Luke. Lucas’ earliest ideas for sequel trilogy are fuzzy but they seem to have Luke being an active mentor on adventures. A new dark side threat arises and forces him into some form of exile. He mentors new padawans who are the new heroes/protagonists. Han and Leia are still together. They have had a child or children but it’s unclear whether they are the new heroes. Lucas is a very, very fluid writer. So the story he starts out with will be different 2 years later, which will be different 3 years later, which will be different 3 and a half years later. Point being his idea for the identities of who the new protagonists were was too vague at the time for him to attempt to introduce them in ROTJ. But Luke’s adventures wouldn’t have stopped in the sequel trilogy. It’s just too bad Kevin Feige wasn’t a colleague of Lucas in the same era. Because he shapes the writing of characters to fit into a future master plan. Then if he had worked with Lucas your idea might have actually worked.
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Post by formersamhmd on May 9, 2023 3:00:01 GMT
I did appreciate that Gunn ended this incarnation of the team but at the same time made sure to introduce new characters who would carry on the spirit and name of the Guardians and ended it with them doing just that. George Lucas could have learned from this, taking time to build up new characters during the OT and making it clear that while Luke's adventures were over in ROTJ the new characters were now ready to start theirs. Would've saved us a lot of trouble later. Well that’s just it. Luke’s adventures weren’t over in Lucas’ ideas for a sequel trilogy. That was Disney’s idea for Luke.Lucas’ earliest ideas for sequel trilogy are fuzzy but they seem to have Luke being an active mentor on adventures. A new dark side threat arises and forces him into some form of exile. He mentors new padawans who are the new heroes/protagonists. Han and Leia are still together. They have had a child or children but it’s unclear whether they are the new heroes. Lucas is a very, very fluid writer. So the story he starts out with will be different 2 years later, which will be different 3 years later, which will be different 3 and a half years later. Point being his idea for the identities of who the new protagonists were was too vague at the time for him to attempt to introduce them in ROTJ. But Luke’s adventures wouldn’t have stopped in the sequel trilogy. It’s just too bad Kevin Feige wasn’t a colleague of Lucas in the same era. Because he shapes the writing of characters to fit into a future master plan. Then if he had worked with Lucas your idea might have actually worked. Well, really the best time to do Sequels was in the early 90s when the actors were young enough and the timespan made it believable that the Empire would still be around causing trouble. The 30 year gap really made it hard to do anything and made the actors old enough that it would be time to just clean out the fridge and move onto new characters.
But yes, Lucas IMO should have introduced new characters in ESB and continued their usage in ROTJ so that the story could move onto them. Take a page from Feige's book.
This problem also plagued the EU novels, keeping the OT characters alive past their due date.
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Post by twothousandonemark on May 9, 2023 3:08:13 GMT
I’m glad none of the Guardians died. Not so much because it would’ve been too sad, but more because it would’ve been way too cliche at this point. Agreed. They all deserved to live, every last one of them. Even though 'our' Gamora was killed by Thanos. They were introduced as MCU bench players & they've had, this side of Captain America, the most consistently positive branded movies. I was all-in for Guardians of the Galaxy because after The Avengers, I just wanted more MCU ensemble fun, asap. I feel like most of us were in that same boat... yet I rarely hear that pointed out. I think I can comfortably place this as my #12 fav MCU title now just ahead of Black Panther, & behind Winter Soldier. My top 10 is pretty much etched as my fav Infinity Saga essentials.
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Post by Oh My Aching Ackbar-Raddus! on May 9, 2023 10:00:44 GMT
Well that’s just it. Luke’s adventures weren’t over in Lucas’ ideas for a sequel trilogy. That was Disney’s idea for Luke.Lucas’ earliest ideas for sequel trilogy are fuzzy but they seem to have Luke being an active mentor on adventures. A new dark side threat arises and forces him into some form of exile. He mentors new padawans who are the new heroes/protagonists. Han and Leia are still together. They have had a child or children but it’s unclear whether they are the new heroes. Lucas is a very, very fluid writer. So the story he starts out with will be different 2 years later, which will be different 3 years later, which will be different 3 and a half years later. Point being his idea for the identities of who the new protagonists were was too vague at the time for him to attempt to introduce them in ROTJ. But Luke’s adventures wouldn’t have stopped in the sequel trilogy. It’s just too bad Kevin Feige wasn’t a colleague of Lucas in the same era. Because he shapes the writing of characters to fit into a future master plan. Then if he had worked with Lucas your idea might have actually worked. Well, really the best time to do Sequels was in the early 90s when the actors were young enough and the timespan made it believable that the Empire would still be around causing trouble. The 30 year gap really made it hard to do anything and made the actors old enough that it would be time to just clean out the fridge and move onto new characters. Yes the early or mid 1990s would have been the best time to make the sequel trilogy. It would have given Lucas a 10 year break. And the actors (for Luke, Leia, and Han) would have still been young enough to do more active, adventurous stuff. Really Lucas probably should have done the sequel trilogy first and then made the prequels the last trilogy. But we all know how that turned out. That would have been ideal and it sounds good on paper. But in ESB Lucas was deciding that Vader being Luke’s father would be an incredible plot twist. And he was trying to decide whether he was going to introduce an all new character in ROTJ, Luke’s sister (who would also be force sensitive). Leia would have still been just from the Organa family by birth. As we all know he never did that. By the time he wrote the final script for ROTJ. Leia was made Luke’s sister. But this is what I mean by Lucas being a very, very fluid writer. If he was fluctuating that much in writing the main characters in the midst of the OT, it shouldn’t be surprising that any ideas for new characters (for the purpose of the next trilogy) would have been too vague. This is why I say he would’ve needed a Feige type colleague whom he could have trusted and assigned to do that. [/div][/quote]
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 5, 2023 16:33:50 GMT
Finally got to see this over the weekend. I think this movie is definitely one of the best of these latest MCU movies, probably the best after No Way Home, but it still fails to live up to some of the greater MCU movies of previous phases. This will probably fall outside my top 10.
And the reason for that is James Gunn's "unbalanced" approach to things. There are things he does in this movie that are done really well (like developing Rocket's backstory and making us feel for it) but there are also stuff that's just dumb juvenile humor, like how the characters just keep on shouting at each other and this is played for laughs or how some of the humor is just flat-out mean. I also can't bring myself to like what they did with Adam Warlock.
GOTG1 is still the best of the trilogy and I feel like we will never see a James Gunn movie quite capture that lightning in the bottle. But GOTG3 is far better than GOTG2 and better than Suicide Squad as well.
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