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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 30, 2023 2:12:49 GMT
It was a better ending than Spider-Mans 2 and 3. Try again. SM2's ending makes MJ a royal asshole and that ending for Octavius was moronically contrived (yes, submerging a sun in the water will stop it...). SM3's ending was rushed as heck. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 30, 2023 2:13:29 GMT
It was a better ending than Spider-Mans 2 and 3. How's that? Well like I said, MJ is a royal jackass and that whole ending fight with Octavius was contrived as heck. Start to finish.
But no one is allowed to point out flaws in older movies, apparently.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 30, 2023 2:58:48 GMT
SM2's ending makes MJ a royal asshole and that ending for Octavius was moronically contrived (yes, submerging a sun in the water will stop it...). SM3's ending was rushed as heck. Try again. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Jul 30, 2023 21:34:13 GMT
SM2's ending makes MJ a royal asshole and that ending for Octavius was moronically contrived (yes, submerging a sun in the water will stop it...). SM3's ending was rushed as heck. Try again. Don't need to, you can't counter anything I said otherwise you would have. SM2 is not the flawless movie it's made out to be and it's full of silly writing worse than anything you can hurl at the MCU.
Predictably, you won't reply with anything meaningful.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jul 30, 2023 22:33:57 GMT
Don't need to, you can't counter anything I said otherwise you would have. SM2 is not the flawless movie it's made out to be and it's full of silly writing worse than anything you can hurl at the MCU.
Predictably, you won't reply with anything meaningful.
Try again. |
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Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
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Post by Sam Raimi on Jul 31, 2023 2:22:39 GMT
They get worse with every show! It was a better ending than Spider-Mans 2 and 3. You’re a god damn kook! |
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Post by Cat on Aug 1, 2023 18:05:11 GMT
Well like I said, MJ is a royal jackass and that whole ending fight with Octavius was contrived as heck. Start to finish.
But no one is allowed to point out flaws in older movies, apparently.
The world would be a pretty dull place if that were true.
A few notes and observations then from my point of view. With respect to the endings, Fury absconded back into space without disclosing why. None of the events he put into motion are resolved. What could have been some character growth in his exchange with Gravik was G'iah in disguise, so none of the revelations affect him. It was just a con he was not even a part of.
My biggest issue with how it played out is not just that he's going back into space, but that he's running away from the mess he created. His plan has no resettlement strategy for the Skrulls. From day one he used them as agents without ever planning to resettle them because, in his own lose words, it's easier to save lives than change minds. That's a defeatist attitude, but what it means in practice is exploiting refugees until they get killed or rebel. In theory this is one of the heroes, but if a Nick Fury were in charge at every step of the evolution of legal and social rights then nothing would ever get done. The show made him into a status quo gatekeeper who frankly comes across as a hypocrite for coming back to Earth and expecting his old job back. He returned to space, in my opinion, as an amoral enabler of a shit system.
As for the others, I disagree with Spiderman 2. Spiderman 3 I don't remember very well. I didn't much like the retcon of it being the sand-guy who really killed Uncle Ben. The whole movie left a disagreeable taste because it undid the ending of Spiderman 2 when Peter and MJ got together. Peter was the jackass in Spiderman 3, not her.
Spiderman 2 I disagree with entirely. I thought the fight was full of tension, and MJ's reaction to unmasked Peter was as satisfying as it gets for a match built up over two movies. I'll take the movie's word for it as a non-physicist that in the heat of the moment trying to get the black hole underwater might work. In the circumstances it's the closest thing to a plan there is, and there's no guarantee it'll work, but it did and it saved the world. Sometimes it's just chance. To this day it's one of my favourite endings to the point where no Spiderman 3 was needed.
Personally I felt Spiderman 2 was one of the best Superhero movie endings and the first superhero film that that told me these films aren't just for Spiderman fans, they're for everyone. I don't remember Spiderman 3's ending well enough, a la the final moments, but neither of them (imo) hold a candle to the disappointing ending of Secret Invasion, and that's just the ending. It doesn't even address the series as a whole.
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Post by formersamhmd on Aug 2, 2023 17:13:29 GMT
Well like I said, MJ is a royal jackass and that whole ending fight with Octavius was contrived as heck. Start to finish.
But no one is allowed to point out flaws in older movies, apparently.
The world would be a pretty dull place if that were true.
A few notes and observations then from my point of view. With respect to the endings, Fury absconded back into space without disclosing why. None of the events he put into motion are resolved. What could have been some character growth in his exchange with Gravik was G'iah in disguise, so none of the revelations affect him. It was just a con he was not even a part of.
My biggest issue with how it played out is not just that he's going back into space, but that he's running away from the mess he created. His plan has no resettlement strategy for the Skrulls. From day one he used them as agents without ever planning to resettle them because, in his own lose words, it's easier to save lives than change minds. That's a defeatist attitude, but what it means in practice is exploiting refugees until they get killed or rebel. In theory this is one of the heroes, but if a Nick Fury were in charge at every step of the evolution of legal and social rights then nothing would ever get done. The show made him into a status quo gatekeeper who frankly comes across as a hypocrite for coming back to Earth and expecting his old job back. He returned to space, in my opinion, as an amoral enabler of a shit system.
Spiderman 2 I disagree with entirely. I thought the fight was full of tension, and MJ's reaction to unmasked Peter was as satisfying as it gets for a match built up over two movies. I'll take the movie's word for it as a non-physicist that in the heat of the moment trying to get the black hole underwater might work. In the circumstances it's the closest thing to a plan there is, and there's no guarantee it'll work, but it did and it saved the world. Sometimes it's just chance. To this day it's one of my favourite endings to the point where no Spiderman 3 was needed.
Personally I felt Spiderman 2 was one of the best Superhero movie endings and the first superhero film that that told me these films aren't just for Spiderman fans, they're for everyone. I don't remember Spiderman 3's ending well enough, a la the final moments, but neither of them (imo) hold a candle to the disappointing ending of Secret Invasion, and that's just the ending. It doesn't even address the series as a whole.
That's Nick Fury's character though, the defender of the status quo, the user of people, the enabler of bad thing. He's a Spymaster, and this is in line with his character from the comics.
Spider-Man 2's ending relied on Ock agreeing to Harry's request that he bring him Spider-Man in exchange for the Tritium...instead of just torturing Harry for the Tritium then and there.
Then, he just HAS to take the electric blast which fries his arms and restores his sanity at the end because there was no build up to him going back to being good otherwise.
The sun in the water thing, sorry I'm not letting that go.
MJ running away from her wedding...what did John Jameson do to deserve that?
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Post by Cat on Aug 2, 2023 19:17:30 GMT
The world would be a pretty dull place if that were true.
A few notes and observations then from my point of view. With respect to the endings, Fury absconded back into space without disclosing why. None of the events he put into motion are resolved. What could have been some character growth in his exchange with Gravik was G'iah in disguise, so none of the revelations affect him. It was just a con he was not even a part of.
My biggest issue with how it played out is not just that he's going back into space, but that he's running away from the mess he created. His plan has no resettlement strategy for the Skrulls. From day one he used them as agents without ever planning to resettle them because, in his own lose words, it's easier to save lives than change minds. That's a defeatist attitude, but what it means in practice is exploiting refugees until they get killed or rebel. In theory this is one of the heroes, but if a Nick Fury were in charge at every step of the evolution of legal and social rights then nothing would ever get done. The show made him into a status quo gatekeeper who frankly comes across as a hypocrite for coming back to Earth and expecting his old job back. He returned to space, in my opinion, as an amoral enabler of a shit system.
Spiderman 2 I disagree with entirely. I thought the fight was full of tension, and MJ's reaction to unmasked Peter was as satisfying as it gets for a match built up over two movies. I'll take the movie's word for it as a non-physicist that in the heat of the moment trying to get the black hole underwater might work. In the circumstances it's the closest thing to a plan there is, and there's no guarantee it'll work, but it did and it saved the world. Sometimes it's just chance. To this day it's one of my favourite endings to the point where no Spiderman 3 was needed.
Personally I felt Spiderman 2 was one of the best Superhero movie endings and the first superhero film that that told me these films aren't just for Spiderman fans, they're for everyone. I don't remember Spiderman 3's ending well enough, a la the final moments, but neither of them (imo) hold a candle to the disappointing ending of Secret Invasion, and that's just the ending. It doesn't even address the series as a whole.
That's Nick Fury's character though, the defender of the status quo, the user of people, the enabler of bad thing. He's a Spymaster, and this is in line with his character from the comics.
Spider-Man 2's ending relied on Ock agreeing to Harry's request that he bring him Spider-Man in exchange for the Tritium...instead of just torturing Harry for the Tritium then and there.
Then, he just HAS to take the electric blast which fries his arms and restores his sanity at the end because there was no build up to him going back to being good otherwise.
The sun in the water thing, sorry I'm not letting that go.
MJ running away from her wedding...what did John Jameson do to deserve that?
Nothing. He did nothing wrong except for not being the man she loved, and no good deeds can change that. Sometimes you can do everything the way you think you should, play by all of society's rules, tick all the right boxes, and still lose.
If I recall, Harry made Doc Oc an offer he felt he couldn't refuse. It was the preamble to Harry learning his best friend and the man who killed his father were one in the same, and it sets up MJ being present at the final battle.
Sounds like your mind is made up about the black hole resolution. I disagree, but I respect that.
Can you explain why Fury went back up into space? It's not even clear to me why he came back down, except the obvious reason which is if he doesn't then there's no show.
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Post by formersamhmd on Aug 3, 2023 0:35:43 GMT
That's Nick Fury's character though, the defender of the status quo, the user of people, the enabler of bad thing. He's a Spymaster, and this is in line with his character from the comics.
Spider-Man 2's ending relied on Ock agreeing to Harry's request that he bring him Spider-Man in exchange for the Tritium...instead of just torturing Harry for the Tritium then and there.
Then, he just HAS to take the electric blast which fries his arms and restores his sanity at the end because there was no build up to him going back to being good otherwise.
The sun in the water thing, sorry I'm not letting that go.
MJ running away from her wedding...what did John Jameson do to deserve that?
Nothing. He did nothing wrong except for not being the man she loved, and no good deeds can change that. Sometimes you can do everything the way you think you should, play by all of society's rules, tick all the right boxes, and still lose.
If I recall, Harry made Doc Oc an offer he felt he couldn't refuse. It was the preamble to Harry learning his best friend and the man who killed his father were one in the same, and it sets up MJ being present at the final battle.
Sounds like your mind is made up about the black hole resolution. I disagree, but I respect that.
Can you explain why Fury went back up into space? It's not even clear to me why he came back down, except the obvious reason which is if he doesn't then there's no show.
Yeah but the problem is that the story makes MJ out to be right to do that instead of her being a jerk for callously throwing him away instead of breaking up with him in a mature way. Yes, it was supposed to be a homage to the Graduate but the Graduate was smart enough to realize that maybe the Bride running off wasn't the best thing to do.
Ock could easily have refused the offer, he could have just tortured Harry for the Tritium and gotten it then and there. The entire final act relies on this plot contrivance.
It's supposed to be explained in The Marvels. Because of the continuing serial nature of the story.
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Post by Cat on Aug 3, 2023 17:10:05 GMT
Nothing. He did nothing wrong except for not being the man she loved, and no good deeds can change that. Sometimes you can do everything the way you think you should, play by all of society's rules, tick all the right boxes, and still lose.
If I recall, Harry made Doc Oc an offer he felt he couldn't refuse. It was the preamble to Harry learning his best friend and the man who killed his father were one in the same, and it sets up MJ being present at the final battle.
Sounds like your mind is made up about the black hole resolution. I disagree, but I respect that.
Can you explain why Fury went back up into space? It's not even clear to me why he came back down, except the obvious reason which is if he doesn't then there's no show.
Yeah but the problem is that the story makes MJ out to be right to do that instead of her being a jerk for callously throwing him away instead of breaking up with him in a mature way. Yes, it was supposed to be a homage to the Graduate but the Graduate was smart enough to realize that maybe the Bride running off wasn't the best thing to do.
Ock could easily have refused the offer, he could have just tortured Harry for the Tritium and gotten it then and there. The entire final act relies on this plot contrivance.
It's supposed to be explained in The Marvels. Because of the continuing serial nature of the story.
To do otherwise would be settling for less. It was hasty for MJ to go as far as she did with JJ, but tying the knot with him would mean resigning herself to a life she doesn't want. I get that it's not without its casualties but it's the right decision.
I don't think Ock could have done that to Harry. Even with the AI wearing down his brain, he was never genocidal; his goal was based in science, even though he was getting more liberal with the civilian casualties. Even with his rationality dwindling he never struck me as someone who would torture.
So I'll have to watch The Marvels for Secret Invasion to make more sense? Hm, fine, but I'll tell you something else. Something I didn't like about the whole series is how little there was. There were 6 episodes, but the latter four of them were like 38 minutes a piece. Shave off 6 minutes per ep for closing credits and it wasn't very much show.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Aug 3, 2023 17:22:24 GMT
I have a feeling that Secret Invasion isn't going to have much of an impact on The Marvels.
Ms. Marvel is different because it's her origin story and the bracelet plays a more significant role.
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Post by Archelaus on Aug 3, 2023 23:54:25 GMT
Secret Invasion takes the cake for the worst ending because it completely dismantles Nick Fury as a character and leaves so much open-ended. How long has Rhodey been replaced by a Skrull? How has Captain Marvel not found a suitable planet for the Skrulls by now?
The most egregious thing is that it ruins Nick Fury's character. He should be the ultimate spymaster even without the Skrulls. I was waiting for some pay off that Fury still has it, but there wasn't any. In the end, Fury left a bigger mess for the Skrulls while he gets to return to S.A.B.E.R.
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Post by formersamhmd on Aug 4, 2023 0:25:46 GMT
Yeah but the problem is that the story makes MJ out to be right to do that instead of her being a jerk for callously throwing him away instead of breaking up with him in a mature way. Yes, it was supposed to be a homage to the Graduate but the Graduate was smart enough to realize that maybe the Bride running off wasn't the best thing to do.
Ock could easily have refused the offer, he could have just tortured Harry for the Tritium and gotten it then and there. The entire final act relies on this plot contrivance.
It's supposed to be explained in The Marvels. Because of the continuing serial nature of the story.
To do otherwise would be settling for less. It was hasty for MJ to go as far as she did with JJ, but tying the knot with him would mean resigning herself to a life she doesn't want. I get that it's not without its casualties but it's the right decision.
I don't think Ock could have done that to Harry. Even with the AI wearing down his brain, he was never genocidal; his goal was based in science, even though he was getting more liberal with the civilian casualties. Even with his rationality dwindling he never struck me as someone who would torture.
So I'll have to watch The Marvels for Secret Invasion to make more sense? Hm, fine, but I'll tell you something else. Something I didn't like about the whole series is how little there was. There were 6 episodes, but the latter four of them were like 38 minutes a piece. Shave off 6 minutes per ep for closing credits and it wasn't very much show.
No no no, I'm not saying she was wrong to end it with him and go to Peter...I'm saying that the way she did it made her a royal jerk. She was already having second thoughts, so her letting it get so far and to run off on the guy's WEDDING DAY....really makes her a jerk. Her letting it get that far and then ending it the way she did shouldn't have been portrayed as some triumphant thing. That we never hear from John again or get any closure on him in SM3 is another problem.
He was fine chucking a car at Peter and MJ, when he didn't know Peter was Spider-Man. He WAS far enough gone to torture someone.
That's one of the things the critics disliked about the last episode and why it's rated so low. They're mad the show said it would continue into another thing instead of ending.
Of course, when Spider-verse does the same thing...
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Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
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Post by Sam Raimi on Aug 4, 2023 3:51:46 GMT
To do otherwise would be settling for less. It was hasty for MJ to go as far as she did with JJ, but tying the knot with him would mean resigning herself to a life she doesn't want. I get that it's not without its casualties but it's the right decision.
I don't think Ock could have done that to Harry. Even with the AI wearing down his brain, he was never genocidal; his goal was based in science, even though he was getting more liberal with the civilian casualties. Even with his rationality dwindling he never struck me as someone who would torture.
So I'll have to watch The Marvels for Secret Invasion to make more sense? Hm, fine, but I'll tell you something else. Something I didn't like about the whole series is how little there was. There were 6 episodes, but the latter four of them were like 38 minutes a piece. Shave off 6 minutes per ep for closing credits and it wasn't very much show.
No no no, I'm not saying she was wrong to end it with him and go to Peter...I'm saying that the way she did it made her a royal jerk. She was already having second thoughts, so her letting it get so far and to run off on the guy's WEDDING DAY....really makes her a jerk. Her letting it get that far and then ending it the way she did shouldn't have been portrayed as some triumphant thing. That we never hear from John again or get any closure on him in SM3 is another problem.
He was fine chucking a car at Peter and MJ, when he didn't know Peter was Spider-Man. He WAS far enough gone to torture someone.
That's one of the things the critics disliked about the last episode and why it's rated so low. They're mad the show said it would continue into another thing instead of ending.
Of course, when Spider-verse does the same thing...
Be honest. You just hate it because it wasn’t made by Disney, you brain dead shill. |
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Post by Cat on Aug 4, 2023 19:11:04 GMT
To do otherwise would be settling for less. It was hasty for MJ to go as far as she did with JJ, but tying the knot with him would mean resigning herself to a life she doesn't want. I get that it's not without its casualties but it's the right decision.
I don't think Ock could have done that to Harry. Even with the AI wearing down his brain, he was never genocidal; his goal was based in science, even though he was getting more liberal with the civilian casualties. Even with his rationality dwindling he never struck me as someone who would torture.
So I'll have to watch The Marvels for Secret Invasion to make more sense? Hm, fine, but I'll tell you something else. Something I didn't like about the whole series is how little there was. There were 6 episodes, but the latter four of them were like 38 minutes a piece. Shave off 6 minutes per ep for closing credits and it wasn't very much show.
No no no, I'm not saying she was wrong to end it with him and go to Peter...I'm saying that the way she did it made her a royal jerk. She was already having second thoughts, so her letting it get so far and to run off on the guy's WEDDING DAY....really makes her a jerk. Her letting it get that far and then ending it the way she did shouldn't have been portrayed as some triumphant thing. That we never hear from John again or get any closure on him in SM3 is another problem.
He was fine chucking a car at Peter and MJ, when he didn't know Peter was Spider-Man. He WAS far enough gone to torture someone.
That's one of the things the critics disliked about the last episode and why it's rated so low. They're mad the show said it would continue into another thing instead of ending.
Of course, when Spider-verse does the same thing...
There is no good way to stand someone up at the altar. The price of being a runaway bride who runs to another man is being the villain in someone else' story. It seems like a price she was willing to pay. Not long after she ran, she showed up at Peter's place still in her wedding dress and put soul on the line. There was no guarantee it would work, especially since she tried already, but this time was different. She knows he's Spiderman and he knows she knows, so it was an all cards on the table proposition that united an iconic couple. It was meant to be.
We'll have to agree to disagree on how prepared Doc Oc was to torture. If Doc Oc tortured Harry to get the supply then how would Peter know where to show up for the final scene? MJ would have no reason to be there either.
I did not know Across the Spiderverse was going to be a two-parter. Knowing this might have affected my reaction to the end of that film. I could have braced for the anticipation. Now that I know, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Secret Invasion concluded its story. Fury is back in space but this time with his wife. Talos and Gravik are dead. G'iah's been recruited. The secret invasion's been exposed. Whatever is happening in The Marvels may pick up from the details of Secret Invasion because it's the same universe, but it seems like the Secret Invasion story is over.
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Post by FridayOnElmStreet on Aug 5, 2023 3:02:21 GMT
Thor: Love And Thunder
The woman Thor loves dies and hes stuck as a single parent.
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Post by formersamhmd on Aug 6, 2023 1:38:43 GMT
No no no, I'm not saying she was wrong to end it with him and go to Peter...I'm saying that the way she did it made her a royal jerk. She was already having second thoughts, so her letting it get so far and to run off on the guy's WEDDING DAY....really makes her a jerk. Her letting it get that far and then ending it the way she did shouldn't have been portrayed as some triumphant thing. That we never hear from John again or get any closure on him in SM3 is another problem.
He was fine chucking a car at Peter and MJ, when he didn't know Peter was Spider-Man. He WAS far enough gone to torture someone.
That's one of the things the critics disliked about the last episode and why it's rated so low. They're mad the show said it would continue into another thing instead of ending.
Of course, when Spider-verse does the same thing...
Be honest. You just hate it because it wasn’t made by Disney, you brain dead shill. No, I just think it's overrated. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Aug 6, 2023 1:45:37 GMT
No no no, I'm not saying she was wrong to end it with him and go to Peter...I'm saying that the way she did it made her a royal jerk. She was already having second thoughts, so her letting it get so far and to run off on the guy's WEDDING DAY....really makes her a jerk. Her letting it get that far and then ending it the way she did shouldn't have been portrayed as some triumphant thing. That we never hear from John again or get any closure on him in SM3 is another problem.
He was fine chucking a car at Peter and MJ, when he didn't know Peter was Spider-Man. He WAS far enough gone to torture someone.
That's one of the things the critics disliked about the last episode and why it's rated so low. They're mad the show said it would continue into another thing instead of ending.
Of course, when Spider-verse does the same thing...
There is no good way to stand someone up at the altar. The price of being a runaway bride who runs to another man is being the villain in someone else' story. It seems like a price she was willing to pay. Not long after she ran, she showed up at Peter's place still in her wedding dress and put soul on the line. There was no guarantee it would work, especially since she tried already, but this time was different. She knows he's Spiderman and he knows she knows, so it was an all cards on the table proposition that united an iconic couple. It was meant to be.
We'll have to agree to disagree on how prepared Doc Oc was to torture. If Doc Oc tortured Harry to get the supply then how would Peter know where to show up for the final scene? MJ would have no reason to be there either.
I did not know Across the Spiderverse was going to be a two-parter. Knowing this might have affected my reaction to the end of that film. I could have braced for the anticipation. Now that I know, I wouldn't have it any other way.
Secret Invasion concluded its story. Fury is back in space but this time with his wife. Talos and Gravik are dead. G'iah's been recruited. The secret invasion's been exposed. Whatever is happening in The Marvels may pick up from the details of Secret Invasion because it's the same universe, but it seems like the Secret Invasion story is over.
Yes, but the lack of closure for John makes the story point problematic.
That's the thing, the entire final act relies on Ock deciding to not just torture Harry for the Tritium and going along with his plan to bring him Spider-Man. It's a plot hole.
Secret Invasion's plotline will go into the Marvels and Captain America 4. It's apparently supposed to help build up the Mutant hatred as well. So it's another long run story plot.
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Sam Raimi
Sophomore
@tallahasseeted
Posts: 205
Likes: 179
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Post by Sam Raimi on Aug 6, 2023 1:48:52 GMT
Be honest. You just hate it because it wasn’t made by Disney, you shill. No, I just think it's overrated. Because you’re a god damn shill. What is your stance on the current strikes? I bet you stand with the Disney execs all the way, huh? |
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