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Post by Marv on Jun 16, 2024 1:04:21 GMT
This boards is basically dead, but I thought I might as well point out that Deadline is expecting this movie to open to over $200 million domestically. That would be pretty huge if it happens. That’s a pretty high expectation.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Jul 29, 2024 13:24:33 GMT
This boards is basically dead, but I thought I might as well point out that Deadline is expecting this movie to open to over $200 million domestically. That would be pretty huge if it happens. That’s a pretty high expectation. It did it. Personally, I thought the movie sucked, but then I wasn't a huge fan of the first two, either. I guess this is the future of the MCU. No stakes, no actual storytelling, just an endless string of Easter Eggs, cameos, and references to movies that were shitty 20 years ago and haven't aged into anything better. Endgame relived moments from previous MCU films, No Way Home brought back yesterday's trash, Multiverse of Madness expanded on the meta jokes and now this movie took it to a whole new level. The joke's not funny anymore, if it ever was. It's moviemaking for the TikTok crowd. Don't invest in anything, just be sure you get the reference and scroll to the next meme. I'm just about done with the MCU at this point.
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Post by Marv on Jul 29, 2024 14:00:03 GMT
That’s a pretty high expectation. It did it. Personally, I thought the movie sucked, but then I wasn't a huge fan of the first two, either. I guess this is the future of the MCU. No stakes, no actual storytelling, just an endless string of Easter Eggs, cameos, and references to movies that were shitty 20 years ago and haven't aged into anything better. Endgame relived moments from previous MCU films, No Way Home brought back yesterday's trash, Multiverse of Madness expanded on the meta jokes and now this movie took it to a whole new level. The joke's not funny anymore, if it ever was. It's moviemaking for the TikTok crowd. Don't invest in anything, just be sure you get the reference and scroll to the next meme. I'm just about done with the MCU at this point. That’s fair. I enjoyed it a lot but I loved both other Deadpool movies so that tracks. I still don’t think it’s the next foundation for the McU going forward but I honestly never expected it to be. Deadpool isn’t the character to build off of. He works best doing his own wacky nonsense.
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Post by Prime etc. on Jul 30, 2024 0:39:27 GMT
I have always felt that Jackman is the MVP in X-men, maybe the MCU itself. Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellan help but they were known for other things while Jackman came out of nowhere so he became the focus. As Rey Kahuka said, there are no stakes in these meta universe films--it is a big joke. I thought it was nifty to hear that they brought back the first Marvel movie character of the late 90s but then forgot Ryan Reynolds was in one of those movies--I can't stand him.
Jackman makes every superhero movie better while Reynolds makes it worse. And Jackman is supposed to be in Secret Wars as well as Tobey Maquire--they are wasting the novelty by overusing it. Should have kept it for a special occasion but they are desperate to have a marketing hook.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Jul 30, 2024 4:57:36 GMT
B+
I quite liked it. Reynold's was all-in, & Wolverine was interesting to peel back alongside.
Still, I caught myself looking around my audience early on & realized Iron Man 2008 was 16yrs ago... & there were a slew of 14yr olds tonight in my crowd... they'll just never know for better or worse the arc. Yeah, I'm sure they've seen the films, yet the slow burn release of them all makes this MCU redundant now.
I think upcoming Captain America & the 2 Avengers movies are my only new must-sees ever again for MCU.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jul 30, 2024 13:24:48 GMT
Movie so good it made people get into fights!
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Aug 2, 2024 1:38:15 GMT
That’s a pretty high expectation. It did it. Personally, I thought the movie sucked, but then I wasn't a huge fan of the first two, either. I guess this is the future of the MCU. No stakes, no actual storytelling, just an endless string of Easter Eggs, cameos, and references to movies that were shitty 20 years ago and haven't aged into anything better. Endgame relived moments from previous MCU films, No Way Home brought back yesterday's trash, Multiverse of Madness expanded on the meta jokes and now this movie took it to a whole new level. The joke's not funny anymore, if it ever was. It's moviemaking for the TikTok crowd. Don't invest in anything, just be sure you get the reference and scroll to the next meme. I'm just about done with the MCU at this point. I don't know, sounds an awful lot like the past of the MCU. I wish we'd all stop pretending the ending of Infinity War meant anything. It was a bigger "yeah right" than a hooker's orgasm, and the only significant characters to die in the previous two movies were a boring dweeb in a suit (later brought back and given his own show) and everyone's least favorite Quicksilver. These superbeings literally fought each other, and the only casuality was minor back pain for Tony's sidekick. Flicks like Iron Man 2 and Age of Ultron would literally pause to show teaser trailers of upcoming movies. It's all business as usual only the well they're drawing from has gotten bigger, and if I'm being honest, I get a little more memberry excitement from Tobey's Spider-Man or Stewart's' Blade than seeing Falcon pop up in Ant-Man or whatever. With Deadpool in particular, the stakes have always been relatively zilch because of his 4th wall breaking. But I do think multiverse stuff can still have stakes. Take this movie, it took me a while to get invested in Wolverine because even though he is *a* Wolverine, it's not one from any of the other movies so it was almost a brand new character for me. The one from Logan is still dead and I don't think that movie will lose any of its power going forward (unless I think about what Deadpool does with his remains...)
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 2, 2024 14:34:41 GMT
It did it. Personally, I thought the movie sucked, but then I wasn't a huge fan of the first two, either. I guess this is the future of the MCU. No stakes, no actual storytelling, just an endless string of Easter Eggs, cameos, and references to movies that were shitty 20 years ago and haven't aged into anything better. Endgame relived moments from previous MCU films, No Way Home brought back yesterday's trash, Multiverse of Madness expanded on the meta jokes and now this movie took it to a whole new level. The joke's not funny anymore, if it ever was. It's moviemaking for the TikTok crowd. Don't invest in anything, just be sure you get the reference and scroll to the next meme. I'm just about done with the MCU at this point. I don't know, sounds an awful lot like the past of the MCU. I wish we'd all stop pretending the ending of Infinity War meant anything. It was a bigger "yeah right" than a hooker's orgasm, and the only significant characters to die in the previous two movies were a boring dweeb in a suit (later brought back and given his own show) and everyone's least favorite Quicksilver. These superbeings literally fought each other, and the only casuality was minor back pain for Tony's sidekick. Flicks like Iron Man 2 and Age of Ultron would literally pause to show teaser trailers of upcoming movies. It's all business as usual only the well they're drawing from has gotten bigger, and if I'm being honest, I get a little more memberry excitement from Tobey's Spider-Man or Stewart's' Blade than seeing Falcon pop up in Ant-Man or whatever. With Deadpool in particular, the stakes have always been relatively zilch because of his 4th wall breaking. But I do think multiverse stuff can still have stakes. Take this movie, it took me a while to get invested in Wolverine because even though he is *a* Wolverine, it's not one from any of the other movies so it was almost a brand new character for me. The one from Logan is still dead and I don't think that movie will lose any of its power going forward (unless I think about what Deadpool does with his remains...) I think there's an enormous difference between Deadpool and the MCU in general. The stakes are as high in any MCU movie pre-Phase four as they are in any action movie from any franchise. Supposedly dead characters come back all the time and the heroes survive impossible odds and serious injuries. Nothing unique about that. And yeah the worst parts of any MCU movie could often be the forced nods to future or past instalments, but D&W is literally nothing but that. If it's all the same to you, that will surely explain why you like D&W more than I did. It's goofy fun, I get why people enjoyed it. I just expect a little more from these movies.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Aug 2, 2024 14:48:14 GMT
It was cotton candy for dinner. The most pointed angle is most of its shop talk jokes will be aged very quickly. 10yrs from now, the FOX pile-on gags will seem bizarre.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Aug 2, 2024 15:18:41 GMT
I don't know, sounds an awful lot like the past of the MCU. I wish we'd all stop pretending the ending of Infinity War meant anything. It was a bigger "yeah right" than a hooker's orgasm, and the only significant characters to die in the previous two movies were a boring dweeb in a suit (later brought back and given his own show) and everyone's least favorite Quicksilver. These superbeings literally fought each other, and the only casuality was minor back pain for Tony's sidekick. Flicks like Iron Man 2 and Age of Ultron would literally pause to show teaser trailers of upcoming movies. It's all business as usual only the well they're drawing from has gotten bigger, and if I'm being honest, I get a little more memberry excitement from Tobey's Spider-Man or Stewart's' Blade than seeing Falcon pop up in Ant-Man or whatever. With Deadpool in particular, the stakes have always been relatively zilch because of his 4th wall breaking. But I do think multiverse stuff can still have stakes. Take this movie, it took me a while to get invested in Wolverine because even though he is *a* Wolverine, it's not one from any of the other movies so it was almost a brand new character for me. The one from Logan is still dead and I don't think that movie will lose any of its power going forward (unless I think about what Deadpool does with his remains...) I think there's an enormous difference between Deadpool and the MCU in general. The stakes are as high in any MCU movie pre-Phase four as they are in any action movie from any franchise. Supposedly dead characters come back all the time and the heroes survive impossible odds and serious injuries. Nothing unique about that. And yeah the worst parts of any MCU movie could often be the forced nods to future or past instalments, but D&W is literally nothing but that. If it's all the same to you, that will surely explain why you like D&W more than I did. It's goofy fun, I get why people enjoyed it. I just expect a little more from these movies. I don't really agree with that. The Fox movies themselves regularly killed off X-Men (some of whom were brought back, but it's obvious with the exception of Jean in X2 that these characters were meant to really be dead at the time, as opposed to IW). The Star Wars sequels killed off several big characters. I think it's just absurd that the Avengers face end of the world threats in every movie, and it took 11 years for any of them to actually die. Would the world have ended if Hawkeye died in Avengers 1 or 2? The dude has a bow and arrow and survived both an army of aliens and robots. But yes, it's all very much the same to me.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 2, 2024 15:57:15 GMT
I think there's an enormous difference between Deadpool and the MCU in general. The stakes are as high in any MCU movie pre-Phase four as they are in any action movie from any franchise. Supposedly dead characters come back all the time and the heroes survive impossible odds and serious injuries. Nothing unique about that. And yeah the worst parts of any MCU movie could often be the forced nods to future or past instalments, but D&W is literally nothing but that. If it's all the same to you, that will surely explain why you like D&W more than I did. It's goofy fun, I get why people enjoyed it. I just expect a little more from these movies. I don't really agree with that. The Fox movies themselves regularly killed off X-Men (some of whom were brought back, but it's obvious with the exception of Jean in X2 that these characters were meant to really be dead at the time, as opposed to IW). The Star Wars sequels killed off several big characters. I think it's just absurd that the Avengers face end of the world threats in every movie, and it took 11 years for any of them to actually die. Would the world have ended if Hawkeye died in Avengers 1 or 2? The dude has a bow and arrow and survived both an army of aliens and robots. But yes, it's all very much the same to me. They killed off trash characters nobody cared about, and the Fox X-Men essentially got a soft reboot every time out, so there were even less stakes in those movies. Major characters just keep coming back in every franchise. It's how franchises work. Batman, James Bond and Indiana Jones face world threats in their films, and they keep coming back, weird how nobody ever complains about that. The Star Wars sequels came out 30 years too late and the actors were a million years old, those characters were killed (clumsily, typical for the writing throughout those sequels) specifically to make room for the new generation. You'd have a point if those characters were killed in their prime.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Aug 2, 2024 16:54:32 GMT
I don't really agree with that. The Fox movies themselves regularly killed off X-Men (some of whom were brought back, but it's obvious with the exception of Jean in X2 that these characters were meant to really be dead at the time, as opposed to IW). The Star Wars sequels killed off several big characters. I think it's just absurd that the Avengers face end of the world threats in every movie, and it took 11 years for any of them to actually die. Would the world have ended if Hawkeye died in Avengers 1 or 2? The dude has a bow and arrow and survived both an army of aliens and robots. But yes, it's all very much the same to me. They killed off trash characters nobody cared about, and the Fox X-Men essentially got a soft reboot every time out, so there were even less stakes in those movies. Major characters just keep coming back in every franchise. It's how franchises work. Batman, James Bond and Indiana Jones face world threats in their films, and they keep coming back, weird how nobody ever complains about that. The Star Wars sequels came out 30 years too late and the actors were a million years old, those characters were killed (clumsily, typical for the writing throughout those sequels) specifically to make room for the new generation. You'd have a point if those characters were killed in their prime. People were pretty pissed when Scott and Xavier died. And neither were really resurrected until the end of Days of Future Past 8 years later as an apology. Not like less than a year between IW and EG. I mean, it's a running gag in the Austin Powers movies that the villains keeps putting the Bond parody in easily escapable situations instead of just putting a bullet in his head, so someone's complained about it. But the thing about Bond, Indy, etc, is that there's only one main character so they're kinda irreplaceable save reboot. Without them, there's no franchise. But there's 7+ Avengers per movie, and with several variants of them in the comics. You can kill at least one of them. And you want to talk about trash characters, again I point to Hawkeye.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Aug 2, 2024 19:11:27 GMT
They killed off trash characters nobody cared about, and the Fox X-Men essentially got a soft reboot every time out, so there were even less stakes in those movies. Major characters just keep coming back in every franchise. It's how franchises work. Batman, James Bond and Indiana Jones face world threats in their films, and they keep coming back, weird how nobody ever complains about that. The Star Wars sequels came out 30 years too late and the actors were a million years old, those characters were killed (clumsily, typical for the writing throughout those sequels) specifically to make room for the new generation. You'd have a point if those characters were killed in their prime. People were pretty pissed when Scott and Xavier died. And neither were really resurrected until the end of Days of Future Past 8 years later as an apology. Not like less than a year between IW and EG. I mean, it's a running gag in the Austin Powers movies that the villains keeps putting the Bond parody in easily escapable situations instead of just putting a bullet in his head, so someone's complained about it. But the thing about Bond, Indy, etc, is that there's only one main character so they're kinda irreplaceable save reboot. Without them, there's no franchise. But there's 7+ Avengers per movie, and with several variants of them in the comics. You can kill at least one of them. And you want to talk about trash characters, again I point to Hawkeye. Again though, the Fox X-Men were such a dumpster fire that they were throwing out Wolverine origin movies just keep the rights. They didn't know what to do and rebooted the franchise multiple times. Pointing to terribly written and terribly handled franchises as a whole isn't a good argument for how things should be done. No major characters were killed in the original Star Wars movies-- and the major supporting characters who died came back as force ghosts. They killed Spock in Star Trek II and immediately brought him back. Nothing the MCU did is unprecedented, people just like to find things to complain about. Also, everyone knew the arc of IW and Endgame, which to me is a key difference. The blip was exactly that and everyone knew it going in. That was the point-- how do they undo this with the all-powerful McGuffin? And I get it if that's less than compelling to you, but again characters surviving multiple adventures or coming back to life isn't something unique to the MCU. We've lost the plot in this conversation, though. It isn't the multiverse or the resurrection of characters that's removing the stakes, it's the lazy approach these movies are taking. There isn't any effort in any of it. It's all done as a gag or a gimmick. I guess it depends on how much you liked the other movies in the first place. I didn't like the X-Men movies, or the Fantastic Four movies, or in the case of No Way Home, the other Spider-Man movies. So I don't care if/when those characters are reintroduced-- and even if I did, they just show up for no reason other than to say to the audience, "Hey folks, remember this?" That's not storytelling. There are no emotional stakes when you don't care about the characters' journey.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Aug 2, 2024 21:31:06 GMT
People were pretty pissed when Scott and Xavier died. And neither were really resurrected until the end of Days of Future Past 8 years later as an apology. Not like less than a year between IW and EG. I mean, it's a running gag in the Austin Powers movies that the villains keeps putting the Bond parody in easily escapable situations instead of just putting a bullet in his head, so someone's complained about it. But the thing about Bond, Indy, etc, is that there's only one main character so they're kinda irreplaceable save reboot. Without them, there's no franchise. But there's 7+ Avengers per movie, and with several variants of them in the comics. You can kill at least one of them. And you want to talk about trash characters, again I point to Hawkeye. Again though, the Fox X-Men were such a dumpster fire that they were throwing out Wolverine origin movies just keep the rights. They didn't know what to do and rebooted the franchise multiple times. Pointing to terribly written and terribly handled franchises as a whole isn't a good argument for how things should be done. No major characters were killed in the original Star Wars movies-- and the major supporting characters who died came back as force ghosts. They killed Spock in Star Trek II and immediately brought him back. Nothing the MCU did is unprecedented, people just like to find things to complain about. Also, everyone knew the arc of IW and Endgame, which to me is a key difference. The blip was exactly that and everyone knew it going in. That was the point-- how do they undo this with the all-powerful McGuffin? And I get it if that's less than compelling to you, but again characters surviving multiple adventures or coming back to life isn't something unique to the MCU. We've lost the plot in this conversation, though. It isn't the multiverse or the resurrection of characters that's removing the stakes, it's the lazy approach these movies are taking. There isn't any effort in any of it. It's all done as a gag or a gimmick. I guess it depends on how much you liked the other movies in the first place. I didn't like the X-Men movies, or the Fantastic Four movies, or in the case of No Way Home, the other Spider-Man movies. So I don't care if/when those characters are reintroduced-- and even if I did, they just show up for no reason other than to say to the audience, "Hey folks, remember this?" That's not storytelling. There are no emotional stakes when you don't care about the characters' journey. The Fox X-Men weren't my go-to answer for how things *should* be done (though I enjoy Logan, X2, First Class, and Days of Future Past as much or more than any MCU movie), just an example of a franchise that can and did kill off characters. I wish I had better examples but there frankly aren't a lot of superhero team up movies, or movies with multiple sacred cows in general. Like, I can point to Rorschach in Watchmen but you'll clock me on that being a standalone film. I can point to stuff in the DCEU but we both know those movies by and large suck. Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy killed off characters but none of them were Batman himself. Bond eventually died but it took 60 years. So I don't really have an airtight counter, but I also think "Spielberg didn't kill off the titular Indiana Jones halfway through the second movie so Disney can make a guy with a bow and arrow no one cares about fight aliens and robots till the end of time" is sort of a false equivalent. And I can't speak for these "people" you keep talking about, I can only speak for myself, and I'm honestly not "trying to find things to complain about" (to what end?). I just know I walked out of Avengers 1 thinking it was kind of lame that the movie's big death was some suit with a Captain America trading card. Then more so when Weekend of Ultron introduced a newer, shittier Quicksilver and made him the big death. IW was treated as edgy when even the characters who died from something other than blip were brought back. To its credit, since Endgame the franchise has actually killed people. Tony is dead. Widow is dead. Wanda is dead. Aunt May is dead. Just to be clear, my hatred of death fakeouts or plot armor isn't limited to the MCU. I think Aragorn's river snooze is the worst part of the LOTR trilogy, and I was kinda flabbergasted no one important other than Boromir died. And Kirk being resurrected with Khan superblood was when I gave up on Into Darkness and JJ Abrams in general. But I get you on emotional stakes. Though I will say I found No Way Home emotionally investing. It also felt like the past characters were being utilized beyond just fan service. Garfield has that whole moment where he gets to save MJ after failing to save Gwen, for instance.
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Post by Prime etc. on Aug 3, 2024 23:08:02 GMT
In a superhero movie universe death can't be final because normal things don't apply---that is why a western by default has higher stakes because people understand that the physics work in a way where you get shot, you won't get up again. They could get away (barely) with Superman reversing time to save a character--but they could only do it once. If they did it again--it would immediately get cheap. In Star Trek they had the Vulcan mysticism and the super science freak event of Genesis--it hadn't been done before AND very importantly, it was the interest in the characters/actors that made that work for those who cared (I have heard some people who never saw TOS didn't care about Spock in ST 2).
But in a movie experience, a multiverse means they can just bring back the same actor and audiences will consider them the same character. It's not like they will spend much time on unique characterization and most people wouldn't care or notice. I haven't seen Logan, I know they hyped it up as the death of the character and the actor's participation and look now--not true-he's back.
The difference between the Fox movies and the Blade films (before Blade 3) was that the general story was serious despite moments of comedy. In the MCU, especially with Avengers 1, the humor became less about characters being naturally humorous but a kind of irreverent humor. The "Point Break" line was an example, and in Winter Soldier when the swishy guy in the library shows up to give a monologue. The scene in Thor 2 where he goes on the subway is more subtle so I liked that. But much of the time the humor is self-aware and not tied to characterization.
Iron Man 3 turning the Manchurian into an actor was an extreme example of that. They set him up to be an intimidating character and then ruined it. In the X-men or Blade films--the villains were taken seriously.
Stryker had a comedy moment when Mystique impersonates him and he jokes around a bit with Wolverine but otherwise he is completely serious. Same with Magento--he could be humorous but then he is also dangerous. Actually, the two films where the comedy overran the serious I can think of were Wolverine X-Men Origins and Blade 3. I wonder what the common ingredient is....
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Post by pennypacker on Aug 18, 2024 0:05:10 GMT
Finally saw it.
I’ve been bored of the winks and nudges for a while, but a lot of this just felt like some asshole was elbowing me in the ribs repeatedly while saying “get it”.
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Post by Wolverine10005 on Aug 18, 2024 22:08:07 GMT
Most Fox X-Men movies are true masterpieces. The rest is 100% great, ''Origins'' is mediocre but fun and enjoyable.
Masterpieces:
X2 First Class Days of Future Past Apocalypse (divisive, but to me it's perfect) Deadpool Logan Deadpool & Wolverine
Great:
X-Men (1) The Last Stand The Wolverine Deadpool 2 Dark Phoenix The New Mutants
Good:
X-Men Origins
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 29, 2024 14:22:58 GMT
Totally. Never understood the popularity of this character.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 29, 2024 14:23:44 GMT
Apocalypse (divisive, but to me it's perfect) I liked that one too. we finally got a decent Storm and Psylocke.
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