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Post by staggerstag on Jun 6, 2017 12:56:46 GMT
Juventus in Italy, Real and Barca in (oh, you know where these all play, so why tell you?) Bayern, PSG (although Monaco may have something to say) and in the EPL , well, it's the old Top 6 machine, isn't it (although Leicester may have...)
Here's a brand new article that I've just read and it makes for an interesting peruse. I began thinking about how I might really feel if CFC won the league season upon season, cup after cup, fettered by no team around them. The joy would still be there, yes, but would the sheer expectation be to the detriment of the thrill of the challenge, the excitement of potential upset? I don't know, do I, because it's never happened. But I remember saying on here when CFC was about 4 points ahead of Spurs towards the end, and asking if I was mad that I wouldn't mind the title race going down to the wire, to the last day of the season (however, this was said with an almost smug sense of invincibility, a kind of ineradicable sense of already-achieved victory) Had it actually gone down to the wire and Spurs had snatched the trophy, what sort of prize prick would I have felt like? Indeed, I remember one of ye on here telling me that I was, in fact, mad for thinking, let alone hoping, for such a close run-in.
Europes top leagues : becoming more predictable? In good health?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 13:58:42 GMT
The dominance of Juventus in the Italian league is explained in some part by the disastrous mess that happened ten years ago which massively weakened the league. PSG suddenly received tons of money enabling them to dominate but they are now being pushed a little by Monaco and the Spanish league has had three different winners in the last four years and its second tier teams dominate the European competitions.
All in all, you can explain and understand the dominance of those teams.
The only league where the dominance of one team would seem to indicate a problem with the health of the league is Germany. They haven't had the mess that Italy have, they haven't had foreign billionaires buying up teams and they haven't looked like much of a power in Europe.
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Post by bluerisk on Jun 6, 2017 16:08:56 GMT
It's it Bayern's fault that the other clubs have such incompetent managers like Bruchhagen, Watzke, Lemke and Co. or more so classic guys like Roth (Nuremberg) who wanted to line up the squad and shoot them...back in the old days when some wealthy local guys became the president of the clubs and acted like some sort of Pascha who got a brend new toy.
Look at Hamburg: a big wealthy city, in the 80s they were on par with Munich, won the CL in 81 (iirc). And now?! Every year the same drama about the relegation.
The armateur leagues are full of "Traditionsvereine" (tradition teams).
The last great example for German club management is TSV 1860 Munich.
But Leipzig again is the proof what you can achieve with a decent management and a sound plan lined out in a longterm strategy...this club is not like City or Paris drowing in millions but is working step by step.
The German problem is the poor management capabilities of the most professional clubs.
Of the big five, Germany has by far the biggest population, the strongest economy, other sports (Rugy, tennis etc.) have a lesser standing than in the other countries and yet, the Bundesliga has, aside from France, the poorest performance - now and overall.
But it was also the last country where the inept bastards of the DFB came to the idea to establish a professional league, and albeit the biggest country, we are the only one with an utterly inferior 18-teams league. And of course this unholy 50+1 rule.
Armateurs by default.
And even Bayern is rather poorly managed by Rummenigge and Co.
The one-eyed-guys in the valley of the blinds.
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Post by mandragora on Jun 6, 2017 16:26:25 GMT
^The irony is that it may be Ismaik of all people who's going to take the 50+1 rule down. Of course the "traditionalists" are already rioting.
I don't see the situation as bleak as you, but this season has been a disaster with respect to the performances of Leverkusen, Gladbach, Schalke and Wolfsburg. Well, the latter two have been a disaster for two seasons now. If you're gonna criticize the likes of Lemke and Bruchhagen you should include Allofs at least, too.
But right now I'm mostly annoyed with Dortmund, who have been tearing down with their arse what they've built for over a decade. I'm curious how this will work out with Peter Bosz, who seems to be a stubborn and headstrong character, too. He's not gonna ask Aki for permission to bench the likes of Sahin. Latest news is that Raiola claims he'll bring Balotelli to Dortmund. If that comes to pass I'll consider that a new low of the Dortmund hierarchy (and that's saying something after the debacle over Tuchel's dismissal), and more trouble in paradise is assured.
Have to disagree with respect to the predictability, though. This is only true for the title. Otherwise, who would have predicted Leipzig and Hoffenheim to finish top four (Leipzig even 2nd), and who would have predicted for Wolfsburg to end up on the relegation playoff spot?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 21:12:57 GMT
What's wrong with the 50+1 rule?
Sound like a good idea to me, no? When you look at clubs like Leyton Orient, relegated out of the football league because the owner who bought the club knows nothing about football, and clubs like Liverpool, Arsenal, Man United, Aston Villa, Leeds, Portsmouth (the list goes on and on) all had major issues with their owners, it seems like a good idea to me that fans should retain the majority of shares.
Be careful what you wish for.
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Post by mandragora on Jun 6, 2017 21:42:40 GMT
What's wrong with the 50+1 rule? Sound like a good idea to me, no? When you look at clubs like Leyton Orient, relegated out of the football league because the owner who bought the club knows nothing about football, and clubs like Liverpool, Arsenal, Man United, Aston Villa, Leeds, Portsmouth (the list goes on and on) all had major issues with their owners, it seems like a good idea to me that fans should retain the majority of shares. Be careful what you wish for. Except that 50+1 is illegal under European law? It protects the big clubs from competition, and is a major factor why the Bundesliga title race has become a one horse race. The financial gap between Bayern and the currently 2nd wealthiest club Dortmund is much too big. I'm not saying Bayern haven't earned their status but the situation now is that no club can catch up without massive outside investment. As bluerisk has pointed out, there are dozens of "traditional clubs" in the 2nd, 3rd and even 4th division in Germany. They ended up there because of terrible management that had nothing to do with investors. No one forces a club to sell shares to a clueless owner. No one forces a club to employ clueless people as managers and CEOs. Both things are due to poor management. And are you seriously suggesting that fans have more knowledge about the football business than professional managers? The important decisions aren't made by fans under 50+1 anyway. Leipzig show how it can be done. Mateschitz found the best location imaginable in Leipzig and hired the (IMO) best German sporting director and one of the best coaches with Rangnick. And he gave him a free hand. Add to this true professionals in all important positions. You need the right people in the right places. And what you definitely don't need is half a dozen club legends who need to be consulted and have their ego to be pampered every day. Or local politicians meddling with business they know nothing about just because they feel like it. That's why a project like Leipzig has succeeded beyond all expectations. Race boat vs. supertanker. Efficient management that knows what it's doing and is not hampered by club legends, overblown egos and overcome hierarchies. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 22:22:14 GMT
Every club needs a strong hierarchy who are experts at their job. The problem is when you get an owner who owns a 100% stake in the club who clearly doesn't know what they are doing, are meddling with the team, not extending contracts that could and should be extended, going through manager after manager, are making batshit crazy decisions after another. There really is very little you can do to get rid of an owner like this. You can put them under pressure to leave, you could even boycott, but football fans are a bit stupid when it comes to boycotting their team. Their love of the football club trumps their hate of the owner, which is why football needs to be treated a bit differently to ordinary businesses.
I take your point about other clubs struggling to compete with Bayern Munich, but this happens anyway in loads of different leagues, the only way to combat that is to adopt the American system, but I'm not sure if many fans want to go that far. And the fact that Dortmund and others have competed with Bayern, and possibly Leipzig in the future, shows it can be done.
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