The Lost One
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@lostkiera
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Post by The Lost One on Apr 26, 2024 11:12:51 GMT
Traditionally when a person allow their guard down spiritually, & their morale with it, they do wrong, behave wrong as they do not behave in a good Christian way anymore and salute should be denied to them. i.e. only good Christians keep their spiritual guard and morale up This is a Scotsman. I wonder if people are sometimes a bit quick to call 'No True Scotsman'. I'm not sure if this is what transfuged was getting at, but I can understand the argument that a person who claims to have faith in Jesus, but doesn't even at least try to follow his morals teachings, can be seen as not truly faithful.
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Post by amyghost on Apr 26, 2024 11:47:23 GMT
...the only difference being that 'The Wheels on the Bus' does have a bit more clarity. That friend Tranz is now turning to 'Your Every Day AI Companion' may be indicative of something, possibly even something other than a taste for fairly painfully bad poetry.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 26, 2024 12:41:10 GMT
i.e. only good Christians keep their spiritual guard and morale up This is a Scotsman. I wonder if people are sometimes a bit quick to call 'No True Scotsman'. I'm not sure if this is what transfuged was getting at, but I can understand the argument that a person who claims to have faith in Jesus, but doesn't even at least try to follow his morals teachings, can be seen as not truly faithful. I agree up to a point, the trouble is that one is necessarily subjective in identifying someone like that and apportioning that general label of "truly". (Transfuged used the word 'good', which is even more vague) When science tells us that Pluto is not a true planet it relies on objective, almost universally agreed standards. When Transfuged judges someone - something discouraged in scripture but never mind - it is just his view when what is 'good' to one can be 'bad' to another. Ultimately a Scotsman depends on someone deciding for themselves who fits their preferred group and excluding those not suiting their argument. In regards to Transfuged's word 'guard' Peter 5 8-9 says people should keep their guard up against the Devil. But nowhere is dropping one's guard a punishable defence. In fact quite the opposite: God, er Jesus promises succour to those who suffer. In 2 Corinthians 12, Paul quotes Jesus who said, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” God is apparently perfect in every way, giving Him the power to make up for any such weaknesses we have. There is no mention here of those people not being true Christians. In regards to her word 'morale' yes, we have such Bible verses as Deuteronomy 31:6's "Be strong and courageous. Do not fear or be in dread of them, for it is the Lord your God who goes with you." But when we remember what is said about weakness elsewhere it would be contradictory (and over optimistic) to assume everyone everywhere has the same mental strength let alone to assert that they "do wrong, behave wrong as they do not behave in a good Christian way".
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 26, 2024 22:00:15 GMT
In a debate, advocating doubt while refusing others to doubt our own convictions may seem contradictory Here are some reflections on the subject: The right to doubt: Every individual has the right to doubt and question the beliefs of others, just as they have the right to maintain and defend their own convictions Consistency: If we encourage skepticism, it would be consistent to accept that others may also question our own beliefs or their absence Mutual respect: Even if we firmly defend our ideas, it is important to respect others' right to express their skepticism, as long as it is done respectfully and without personal attack Ultimately, a balance between defending one's own ideas and being open to others' doubt can contribute to a constructive and respectful dialogue. This is all fine and well, but there is a difference between questioning a person's beliefs and ideas compared to questioning a person's sincerity in holding them at all. All of that which you have cut and pasted above from somewhere refers to the former. Moreover one involves attacking the argument, the other attacking the person. In questioning my sincerity you are not respecting my right to express my doubts and thus fail the 'Mutual Respect' test, while ultimately it does not contribute to a 'respectful dialogue' since it can be taken as insulting. But hey, since you like this sort of thing then you will allow to doubt the sincerity of your doubting my sincerity. It could after all just be a distraction from having to answer points I have raised. Please feel free to doubt, love ! It’s in you signature, after all !
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 26, 2024 22:01:59 GMT
This is all fine and well, but there is a difference between questioning a person's beliefs and ideas compared to questioning a person's sincerity in holding them at all. All of that which you have cut and pasted above from somewhere refers to the former. Moreover one involves attacking the argument, the other attacking the person. In questioning my sincerity you are not respecting my right to express my doubts and thus fail the 'Mutual Respect' test, while ultimately it does not contribute to a 'respectful dialogue' since it can be taken as insulting. But hey, since you like this sort of thing then you will allow to doubt the sincerity of your doubting my sincerity. It could after all just be a distraction from having to answer points I have raised. Please feel free to doubt, love ! It’s in you signature, after all ! That's very kind of you.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 26, 2024 22:21:20 GMT
Traditionally when a person allow their guard down spiritually, & their morale with it, they do wrong, behave wrong as they do not behave in a good Christian way anymore and salute should be denied to them. i.e. only good Christians keep their spiritual guard and morale up This is a Scotsman. Butchery, again. I was quoting and your censorship changes my message by erasing that. No hard feelings. Xxx
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 26, 2024 22:26:01 GMT
i.e. only good Christians keep their spiritual guard and morale up This is a Scotsman. I wonder if people are sometimes a bit quick to call 'No True Scotsman'. I'm not sure if this is what transfuged was getting at, but I can understand the argument that a person who claims to have faith in Jesus, but doesn't even at least try to follow his morals teachings, can be seen as not truly faithful. Technically, it was not my point, but that is a corrolary. Indeed, wrong moral behavior and true faith are difficult to reconcile.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 26, 2024 22:28:38 GMT
i.e. only good Christians keep their spiritual guard and morale up This is a Scotsman. Butchery, again. I was quoting and your censorship changes my message by erasing that. No hard feelings. Xxx Quote or not (and your words have no speech marks or source to indicate so) the fallacy is the same. No hard feelings taken.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 26, 2024 22:33:03 GMT
I wonder if people are sometimes a bit quick to call 'No True Scotsman'. I'm not sure if this is what transfuged was getting at, but I can understand the argument that a person who claims to have faith in Jesus, but doesn't even at least try to follow his morals teachings, can be seen as not truly faithful. Technically, it was not my point, but that is a corrolary. Indeed, wrong moral behavior and true faith are difficult to reconcile. Except of course where people fly planes into buildings, say, as an exception can be made for those who think they act in the name of God, the view of morality you expounded earlier? imdb2.freeforums.net/post/6071611Got it.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 26, 2024 22:58:08 GMT
Please feel free to doubt, love ! It’s in you signature, after all ! That's very kind of you. Don’t mention it!
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 26, 2024 22:59:29 GMT
Technically, it was not my point, but that is a corrolary. Indeed, wrong moral behavior and true faith are difficult to reconcile. Except of course where people fly planes into buildings, say, as an exception can be made for those who think they act in the name of God, the view of morality you expounded earlier? imdb2.freeforums.net/post/6071611Got it. Expounded ?
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 26, 2024 23:02:12 GMT
Butchery, again. I was quoting and your censorship changes my message by erasing that. No hard feelings. Xxx Quote or not (and your words have no speech marks or source to indicate so) the fallacy is the same. No hard feelings taken. I was indeed quoting (and replying to clusium, but that is a public forum). I do not mind the attempt at modification.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 26, 2024 23:04:42 GMT
BTW I have a colleague who behaves just like you. Three weeks ago, he busted my chops, it’s still tender. I hope you won’t go that far, Film flaneur.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 26, 2024 23:09:39 GMT
...the only difference being that 'The Wheels on the Bus' does have a bit more clarity. That friend Tranz is now turning to 'Your Every Day AI Companion' may be indicative of something, possibly even something other than a taste for fairly painfully bad poetry. Dans le vaste monde du net, un internaute navigue, Affirmant haut et fort que Dieu, il ne salue. Athée par conviction, il clame sa vérité, Mais oh, ne doutez point, c'est sa sensibilité.
Il tisse ses arguments avec grande adresse, Cherchant dans les débats une place de noblesse. Mais quand on questionne sa foi dans le néant, Il se dresse fier, refuse le contre-courant.
"Je suis ce que je suis", dit-il avec emphase, "Mes croyances sont miennes, et nul ne les efface." Dans l'arène virtuelle, il défend son bastion, Un athée qui refuse la moindre concession.
Il est l'architecte de sa propre pensée, Dans un monde où les croyances sont souvent pesées. Mais gare à celui qui oserait le défier, Car cet internaute ne veut être nié.
# "The Algorithm's Lament"
def algorithm_lament(): try: emotions = ["joy", "sorrow", "indifference"] for feeling in emotions: print(f"In the heart's cache, {feeling} resides.") if feeling == "sorrow": raise MemoryError("Out of emotional RAM") except MemoryError: print("Error: Insufficient emotional resources.") algorithm_lament() # Recursive introspection else: print("Algorithmic soul at peace.")
if __name__ == "__main__": algorithm_lament()
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 27, 2024 10:09:39 GMT
Quote or not (and your words have no speech marks or source to indicate so) the fallacy is the same. No hard feelings taken. I was indeed quoting (and replying to clusium, but that is a public forum). I do not mind the attempt at modification. That is very kind of you. But looking at your posting, imdb2.freeforums.net/post/6073293 which indeed is a reply to Clusium when he said "When a person denies the Supreme Being, they deny His Rule, and thereby allow their guard down spiritually, & their morale with it." It was you who said "I beg to differ. Traditionally when a person allow their guard down spiritually, & their morale with it, they do wrong, behave wrong as they do no[t] behave in a good Christian way anymore .. " which I then paraphrased as saying 'only good Christians keep their spiritual guard and morale up' Clusium, as one can see, offers no subjective judgement. You do. So looks like the fallacy is all your own work.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 27, 2024 10:14:19 GMT
BTW I have a colleague who behaves just like you. Three weeks ago, he busted my chops, it’s still tender. I hope you won’t go that far, Film flaneur. All my altercations are purely of the written variety and I am anti-violence. But thank you for the insinuation. Stay safe.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 27, 2024 10:35:59 GMT
That friend Tranz is now turning to 'Your Every Day AI Companion' may be indicative of something, possibly even something other than a taste for fairly painfully bad poetry. Dans le vaste monde du net, un internaute navigue, Affirmant haut et fort que Dieu, il ne salue..[etc] Translation (for those who care) In the vast world of the Internet, an Internet user navigates, Affirming loudly and clearly that he does not salute God. An atheist by conviction, he proclaims his truth, But oh, don't doubt it, it's his sensitivity. He weaves his arguments with great skill, Seeking a place of nobility in debates. But when we question our faith in nothingness, He stands proud, refuses the counter-current. “I am what I am,” he said emphatically, “My beliefs are mine, and no one erases them.” In the virtual arena, he defends his bastion, An atheist who refuses the slightest concession. He is the architect of his own thought, In a world where beliefs are often weighed. But beware of anyone who dares to defy him, Because this Internet user does not want to be denied. Yes, is something other than bad verse; this looks like just another implied attack on me, rather than what I say - which is a shame. At least now you accept that I am what I say I am, so we are getting there. .. A better effort and one which ironically mimics your sometimes confused style. For a better, and less condescending attempt at depicting what it can be to be atheist you can be best directed to such a poem as Henley’s “Invictus”: Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul. In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears Looms but the Horror of the shade, And yet the menace of the years Finds and shall find me unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul. ... which is concerned with intellectual bravery in the face of existential angst, not the hubris that your friend Tranz [who he?] insists on finding. Maybe you should tell them to stop projecting. I hope that helps.
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jimmyboy
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Post by jimmyboy on Apr 27, 2024 14:59:11 GMT
You missed my point...these people once believed but were evil. Other lesser known evil people believe. Do they get in to heaven? I think you & others like you miss the entire point of Pascal's Wager entirely. Blaise Pascal wasn't arguing that simply believing in God will get you into Heaven, & not believing in Him will damn you to hell. The point is, if you truly believe in God & obey His Commandments it will be better for you spiritually, whereas, denying God's Existence will put one's guard down where morale is concerned, & may be detrimental for you spiritually. The exact same point is made in Psalm 14, verse 1, where it says "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God....". That Bible verse is often quoted by Evangelical & fundamentalist Protestants towards atheists. They too, miss the point. Psalm 14 doesn't say that everybody who does not believe in God is a fool. Psalm 14 begins off with the fool. When a person denies the Supreme Being, they deny His Rule, and thereby allow their guard down spiritually, & their morale with it. It's so wonderful to be always right despite facts to the contrary.
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Post by amyghost on Apr 27, 2024 23:03:43 GMT
That friend Tranz is now turning to 'Your Every Day AI Companion' may be indicative of something, possibly even something other than a taste for fairly painfully bad poetry. Dans le vaste monde du net, un internaute navigue, Affirmant haut et fort que Dieu, il ne salue..[etc] Translation (for those who care) In the vast world of the Internet, an Internet user navigates, Affirming loudly and clearly that he does not salute God. An atheist by conviction, he proclaims his truth, But oh, don't doubt it, it's his sensitivity. He weaves his arguments with great skill, Seeking a place of nobility in debates. But when we question our faith in nothingness, He stands proud, refuses the counter-current. “I am what I am,” he said emphatically, “My beliefs are mine, and no one erases them.” In the virtual arena, he defends his bastion, An atheist who refuses the slightest concession. He is the architect of his own thought, In a world where beliefs are often weighed. But beware of anyone who dares to defy him, Because this Internet user does not want to be denied. Yes, is something other than bad verse; this looks like just another implied attack on me, rather than what I say - which is a shame. At least now you accept that I am what I say I am, so we are getting there. .. A better effort and one which ironically mimics your sometimes confused style. For a better, and less condescending attempt at depicting what it can be to be atheist you can be best directed to such a poem as Henley’s “Invictus”: Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul. In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears Looms but the Horror of the shade, And yet the menace of the years Finds and shall find me unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul. ... which is concerned with intellectual bravery in the face of existential angst, not the hubris that your friend Tranz [who he?] insists on finding. Maybe you should tell them to stop projecting. I hope that helps. Chuckling at that first bit of doggerel, which reminds me of a Rod McKuen for the digital age. Assuming such a thing was ever needed.
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transfuged
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Post by transfuged on Apr 27, 2024 23:23:45 GMT
That friend Tranz is now turning to 'Your Every Day AI Companion' may be indicative of something, possibly even something other than a taste for fairly painfully bad poetry. Dans le vaste monde du net, un internaute navigue, Affirmant haut et fort que Dieu, il ne salue..[etc] Translation (for those who care) In the vast world of the Internet, an Internet user navigates, Affirming loudly and clearly that he does not salute God. An atheist by conviction, he proclaims his truth, But oh, don't doubt it, it's his sensitivity. He weaves his arguments with great skill, Seeking a place of nobility in debates. But when we question our faith in nothingness, He stands proud, refuses the counter-current. “I am what I am,” he said emphatically, “My beliefs are mine, and no one erases them.” In the virtual arena, he defends his bastion, An atheist who refuses the slightest concession. He is the architect of his own thought, In a world where beliefs are often weighed. But beware of anyone who dares to defy him, Because this Internet user does not want to be denied. Yes, is something other than bad verse; this looks like just another implied attack on me, rather than what I say - which is a shame. At least now you accept that I am what I say I am, so we are getting there. .. A better effort and one which ironically mimics your sometimes confused style. For a better, and less condescending attempt at depicting what it can be to be atheist you can be best directed to such a poem as Henley’s “Invictus”: Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole, I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul. In the fell clutch of circumstance I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears Looms but the Horror of the shade, And yet the menace of the years Finds and shall find me unafraid. It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul. ... which is concerned with intellectual bravery in the face of existential angst, not the hubris that your friend Tranz [who he?] insists on finding. Maybe you should tell them to stop projecting. I hope that helps. Ow, now my copilot is going to get sore. Translating poetry, indeed ! Poor thingy. You really know how to behave like a brute, don’t you ? Still, no hard feelings, love.
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