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Post by spiderwort on Jun 15, 2017 18:59:53 GMT
I could list a legion of them, but I'll limit myself to five:
His Girl Friday
The More the Merrier
Sullivan's Travels
My Man Godfrey
Bringing Up Baby
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Post by teleadm on Jun 15, 2017 19:37:24 GMT
Libeled Lady 1936 and Midnight 1939, just to begin, but just as with The Middle Ages thread I have to think this one over, and return at a later time.
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Post by lynnlady on Jun 16, 2017 1:24:02 GMT
The Lady Eve and My Man Godfrey.
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Post by marshamae on Jun 16, 2017 2:49:26 GMT
My man Godfrey- great Carol Lombarde performance but the whole cast was too notch and the script really crackled.
The Awful Truth - my very favorite of The Grant Dunne films with a great Phillip Barry script. Supposedly the film that gave Cary Grant his screen persona.
Love Crazy- William Powell again, with Myrna Loy with plenty of confusion and a brilliant piece of cross dressing by Powell.
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Post by Salzmank on Jun 16, 2017 3:24:11 GMT
Oy! Like you, spiderwort , I could list a legion of them, but a few favorites offhand: Bringing up Baby
The Thin Man
The Awful Truth
His Girl Friday
It Happened One Night
The Palm Beach Story (my favorite Sturges? Maybe not, but I'd like to pick one that someone hasn't already picked!  ) One, Two, Three
Twentieth Century
What's Up, Doc?
Question: does Some Like It Hot count? How about most of Lubitsch? If so, I'd add that to the list, but Lubitsch in particular doesn't seem very screwball-y to me. I guess that's the built-in problem of genre definitions. Hmm... On that note, does The Thin Man even count? The screwball comedy aspects matter far more than the whodunit plot, but it is officially a whodunit, not a comedy, so... Oh, well. |
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Post by teleadm on Jun 16, 2017 16:27:32 GMT
This is how dry Wikipedia explains it "Films definitive of the genre usually feature farcical situations, a combination of slapstick with fast-paced repartee and show the struggle between economic classes. They also generally feature a self-confident and often stubborn central female protagonist and a plot involving courtship and marriage or remarriage".
Personal favorites:
Libeled Lady 1936
My Man Godfrey 1936
The Awful Truth 1937
Topper 1937
Bringing Up Baby 1938
Midnight 1939 John Barrymore is over the top funny
The Palm Beach Story 1941
Love Crazy 1941
Hi Diddle Diddle 1941 They used to show this on now defunct Sky Channel
Hellzapoppin' 1941
Road to Morocco 1942
Some later days tries that I've also liked is Some Like it Hot 1959 and Trading Places 1983
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Post by koskiewicz on Jun 16, 2017 18:04:59 GMT
International House
Night at the Opera
You Can't Take it with You
Night Nurse
The Bank Dick
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Post by Salzmank on Jun 16, 2017 18:25:09 GMT
spiderwort (and koskiewicz --and, to be honest, probably anyone else who, for heaven only knows what reason, may be interested in my vague musings) I'm a huge W.C. Fields fan, but--again--I'm not sure that I'd consider his films "screwball" (but, if so, The Bank Dick would certainly be the most screwball, to be sure). His humor is too surreal--it's actually part of a grand old American tradition of surrealism (almost anti-realism) that also contains Buster Keaton, Laurel and Hardy's "white magic," Tex Avery, Chuck Jones, Jacques Futrelle, Craig Rice, Ellery Queen, etc.--to count as "a combination of slapstick with fast-paced repartee" and a plot involving courtship or remarriage ("a comedy of remarriage," as some of them are called--dating back to at least Shakespeare and Much Ado, probably) as teleadm helpfully noted. (Thanks, Teleadm.) Fields's is something of a surreal fantasyland, without the grounding in reality that most screwball pictures contain (and there's never the romance, comic though it may be, that also grounds a traditional screwball comedy). But maybe my definition is too limited. To be sure, Fields and the wacky characters he meets are screwballs! (And there's a surrealism inherent in Preston Sturges and Hawks's Bringing up Baby and Twentieth Century--probably not in His Girl Friday, though.)
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Post by teleadm on Jun 16, 2017 18:52:17 GMT
spiderwort (and koskiewicz --and, to be honest, probably everyone else who is interested in my vague musings) I'm a huge W.C. Fields fan, but--again--I'm not sure that I'd consider his films "screwball" (but, if so, The Bank Dick would certainly be the most screwball, to be sure). His humor is too surreal--it's actually part of a grand old American tradition of surrealism (almost anti-realism) that also contains Buster Keaton, Laurel and Hardy's "white magic," Tex Avery, Chuck Jones, Jacques Futrelle, Craig Rice, Ellery Queen, etc.--to count as "a combination of slapstick with fast-paced repartee" and a plot involving courtship or remarriage ("a comedy of remarriage," as some of them are called--dating back to at least Shakespeare and Much Ado, probably) as teleadm helpfully noted. (Thanks, Teleadm.) Fields's is something of a surreal fantasyland, without the grounding in reality that most screwball pictures contain (and there's never the romance, comic though it may be, that also grounds a traditional screwball comedy). But maybe my definition is too limited. To be sure, Fields and the wacky characters he meets are screwballs! (And there's a surrealism inherent in Preston Sturges and Hawks's Bringing up Baby and Twentieth Century--probably not in His Girl Friday, though.) I don't think I even have mentioned W.C Fields so for under this subject, but yes he belongs more to the surealists than the screwball comedies |
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Post by Salzmank on Jun 16, 2017 19:04:35 GMT
Oh, you didn't mention Fields, teleadm (I was thanking you for Wikipedia's definition of a screwball comedy); I was just responding because spiderwort and koskiewicz mentioned him, and I'm a big Fields fan--which, of course, makes me wonder about the dividing line (if such an animal exists). |
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Post by spiderwort on Jun 19, 2017 0:23:59 GMT
Question: does Some Like It Hot count? How about most of Lubitsch? If so, I'd add that to the list, but Lubitsch in particular doesn't seem very screwball-y to me. I guess that's the built-in problem of genre definitions. Hmm... On that note, does The Thin Man even count? The screwball comedy aspects matter far more than the whodunit plot, but it is officially a whodunit, not a comedy, so... Oh, well. I would think Some Like It Hot would work; not so sure about Lubitsch, but then again, I'm not sure about The Thin Man either. I suspect in some ways that could be counted, given some of the physical comedy, in at least the first one (possibly later ones, too). Lubitsch is a little more refined and serious, I think. But maybe Ninotchka? Oh, it's in some ways a bit too subjective to say with certainty, I suppose. I'll defer to personal taste here. |
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Post by Salzmank on Jun 19, 2017 0:41:49 GMT
spiderwort (and koskiewicz --and, to be honest, probably everyone else who is interested in my vague musings) I'm a huge W.C. Fields fan, but--again--I'm not sure that I'd consider his films "screwball" (but, if so, The Bank Dick would certainly be the most screwball, to be sure). His humor is too surreal--it's actually part of a grand old American tradition of surrealism (almost anti-realism) that also contains Buster Keaton, Laurel and Hardy's "white magic," Tex Avery, Chuck Jones, Jacques Futrelle, Craig Rice, Ellery Queen, etc.--to count as "a combination of slapstick with fast-paced repartee" and a plot involving courtship or remarriage ("a comedy of remarriage," as some of them are called--dating back to at least Shakespeare and Much Ado, probably) as teleadm helpfully noted. (Thanks, Teleadm.) Fields's is something of a surreal fantasyland, without the grounding in reality that most screwball pictures contain (and there's never the romance, comic though it may be, that also grounds a traditional screwball comedy). But maybe my definition is too limited. To be sure, Fields and the wacky characters he meets are screwballs! (And there's a surrealism inherent in Preston Sturges and Hawks's Bringing up Baby and Twentieth Century--probably not in His Girl Friday, though.) You may be right, Salzmank. I haven't seen a Fields film in so long, I can't honestly make an argument one way or the other. But I love your comments, and they seem to make a lot of sense. Either way, I know one thing is true: he was a very funny man, screwball or otherwise. Thanks for sharing your thoughtful ideas. It's always a pleasure to read your posts. Oh, many thanks for the far-too-kind words, Spider. I so greatly appreciate your posts--you're so wise and insightful!--that I feel honored and humbled that you write this. I agree about Fields--one of my favorite comics as well, though it took me ages to "get" his humor (once you get it, you get it--but not until then). Again, much appreciated. |
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Post by kijii on Jun 19, 2017 0:51:43 GMT
School for Scoundrels (1960)
The Court Jester (1955) is also a very good Panama/Frank movie with Danny Kaye at his very best.
Here is a dialogue between Danny Kaye and Mildred Natwick that will rival any in the movies:
OR this between Kaye and Rathborne
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🎄😷🎄 on Jun 19, 2017 20:48:32 GMT
It Happened One Night and His Girl Friday are classics of this sub-genre. I want to give a shout out to Monkey Business as well, with Cary Grant and Marilyn Monroe, a fun movie if ever there was one.
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Post by bonerxmas on Jun 19, 2017 22:39:30 GMT
bombshell (1933)
the great garrick (1937)
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jun 19, 2017 23:05:09 GMT
Fields's is something of a surreal fantasyland, without the grounding in reality that most screwball pictures contain (and there's never the romance, comic though it may be, that also grounds a traditional screwball comedy). But maybe my definition is too limited. To be sure, Fields and the wacky characters he meets are screwballs! (And there's a surrealism inherent in Preston Sturges and Hawks's Bringing up Baby and Twentieth Century--probably not in His Girl Friday, though.) Ultimately, "screwball" may be almost as difficult as "noir" to quantify or qualify; but as Justice Potter Stewart said about porn, we know it when we see it (and then we all debate it). If spiderwort will forgive some tangential observations, yours about Fields invoke parallels to The Marx Brothers. Although all of their films contain examples, none serves to illustrate surrealist humor any better than Duck Soup: bursting into a full-fledged, celebratory yet irreverent musical production number upon a declaration of war; the extended interlude with Harpo in Paul Revere mode, concluding with him in bed with his horse (almost a film within the film); the battle sequences themselves. They all impart a throw-caution-to-the-wind, "Why the hell not" sense of abandon. I'd submit, though, that Fields's sense of the surreal was of a more intimate and personal nature. While there were more outlandish examples (in The Bank Dick or Never Give A Sucker An Even Break, for instance), the "Carl LaFong" sequence of It's A Gift typifies this sense: it comes out of nowhere and relates to nothing (other than as one of a series of perfectly-timed interruptions of Fields's sleep), and consists only of two people talking. And on that personal level, I find additional parallels between Fields and Groucho in particular. It might be said that Groucho's was the humor of disrespect: no one and nothing (not even the pictures themselves) was safe from his deflating barbs. Closely akin was what I'd call Fields's humor of contempt. But while Groucho never let anyone get the better of him (except, occasionally, one of his own brothers), Fields was frequently the butt of those constructions: the put-upon guy who merely wanted to do his own thing unimpeded, but who found himself treated with as much contempt by those who'd interfere with which he often treated them (if only in muttered asides to himself). Groucho would make anyone his victim just for the fun of it, but Fields seemed forever in a quiet little war with the uncontrollable nature of life itself (and like Rodney Dangerfield, got no respect). Beyond these was another occasional but regular commonality: the fast-talking hustler (evident in The Cocoanuts, Monkey Business, The Old Fashioned Way, Poppy, A Day At the Races and You Can't Cheat An Honest Man among others). Other comics would successfully integrate this element into their onscreen identities as well: Bud Abbott (yes: although the official straight man, I consider Bud a highly skilled comic), Bob Hope (along with Crosby in their teamings) and Phil Silvers among the most notable. What does any of this have to do with screwball comedies? Hey, I said it was tangential. |
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Post by outrider127 on Jun 19, 2017 23:08:33 GMT
I tend to forget about W.C. Fields. He made some wonderfully funny films; I especially like The Bank Dick. Its A Gift(1934) I think is his best film |
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Post by outrider127 on Jun 19, 2017 23:11:03 GMT
It Happened One Night and His Girl Friday are classics of this sub-genre. I want to give a shout out to Monkey Business as well, with Cary Grant and Marilyn Monroe, a fun movie if ever there was one. just saw Monkey Business a few weeks ago--most of it was pretty funny until the "Indian" part--btw there was a great new bio on Grant on Showtime |
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Post by Salzmank on Jun 20, 2017 1:58:41 GMT
Many thanks for these excellent observations, Doghouse, and so very much appreciated. (As they say--you oughta write a book, if you haven't already!) I don't think I've ever spoken to anyone else before who also considers Bud "a highly skilled comic," so thanks for that, first of all. I'll be honest: though he's the straight man of the duo, I find him far funnier than Lou Costello, but then I was never all that fond of Abbott and Costello ( ...Meet Frankenstein notwithstanding) to begin with. The Marx Brothers are indeed the surrealists sine qua non of American comedy, and I can't believe that I left them off my list. The distinctions you make between them and Fields are first-class. I particularly love this: I can only add that Fields's "intimate and personal" surrealistic humor, as you accurately term it, derives from a break in realism (family drama; business with dentists, circus barkers, golfers, and shopkeepers), whereas the Marxes' humor (originally) has little basis in any kind of realism (the Marxes are pulling a con on the world, whereas the world is pulling a con on Fields). The Marxes are creating their surreal fantasyland, then, and Fields has lived and is living in his: they act, and initiate the act, whereas he reacts to the world around him. That is not to say that the Marxes exist in any less "real" settings than Fields, but rather that their humor is not based on anything real. Still, whether it's action or reaction, both the Brothers and Fields use a surreal humor that shifts the accepted order of the world around them in favor of "a world where all commonplace things had gone just a little crazy," as John Dickson Carr put it in The Arabian Nights Murder. (Carr, by the way, was a huge fan of the Marx Bros., so it all connects, however indirectly! ) As for screwball, we're in complete agreement, including the similarity with Justice Stewart's famous quotation. Again, many thanks, as always! |
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Post by Doghouse6 on Jun 20, 2017 14:51:04 GMT
I don't think I've ever spoken to anyone else before who also considers Bud "a highly skilled comic," so thanks for that, first of all. I'll be honest: though he's the straight man of the duo, I find him far funnier than Lou Costello, but then I was never all that fond of Abbott and Costello ( ...Meet Frankenstein notwithstanding) to begin with. (the Marxes are pulling a con on the world, whereas the world is pulling a con on Fields). The Marxes are creating their surreal fantasyland, then, and Fields has lived and is living in his: they act, and initiate the act, whereas he reacts to the world around him. In turn, you're the first who's articulated what I've always thought: that Bud's actually the funnier of the two. It's him that I always keep my eye on while Lou's doing his shtick (which easily wears thin) and, while Bud is doing shtick as well, he disguises it with in-the-moment commitment and timing that make it feel spontaneous, adding up to Bud conveying subtlety where Lou is being obvious. That becomes especially clear when watching routines (such as "7 X 13 = 28") that they used in multiple films and TV shows: it's Bud that keeps 'em fresh. I singled out those comparisons of the Marxes and Fields because I like them so much, I want to see them displayed there where I can admire them. |
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