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Post by thefleetsin on Jun 19, 2017 22:16:47 GMT
hands clasp around a shovel will achieve far more than hands clap in prayer.
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 20, 2017 7:54:45 GMT
Article is solid but thread title is ludicrous. Eating corn can provide health benefits. This does not, by extension, mean corn's cultivation and growth hasn't led to a plethora of issues as a mono-crop, along with the accompanying criticisms. As with so many of the OP's threads, the logic is inches deep, the issue itself a chasm. That a practice can provide positives is by no means an indication it doesn't carry or lead to accompanying negatives. Black/white thinking is silly. So your solution is to stop eating corn instead of dealing with "curable" potential ssues caused by it? That's just stupid.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 20, 2017 9:45:14 GMT
And yet, plenty of evil deeds have been done by people who pray regularly, like, up to five times per day. And often, these people claim a moral justification for their evil deeds that has the same source as their prayer guidelines. Conclusion: We do not have a moral responsibility to not criticize prayer.
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 20, 2017 9:52:07 GMT
And yet, plenty of evil deeds have been done by people who pray regularly, like, up to five times per day. And often, these people claim a moral justification for their evil deeds that has the same source as their prayer guidelines. Conclusion: We do not have a moral responsibility to not criticize prayer. And? That problem is not intrinsic to prayer.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 20, 2017 10:11:01 GMT
And? That problem is not intrinsic to prayer. And: Prayer is not intrinsically good. In my opinion we can criticize any action that causes harm. If prayer helps a terrorist to be more focused and kill more people more efficiently, or, as mentioned before, if people pray for their sick children instead of taking them to the doctor, then we have every right to criticize prayer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 15:55:22 GMT
And? That problem is not intrinsic to prayer. And: Prayer is not intrinsically good. In my opinion we can criticize any action that causes harm. If prayer helps a terrorist to be more focused and kill more people more efficiently, or, as mentioned before, if people pray for their sick children instead of taking them to the doctor, then we have every right to criticize prayer. Indeed, similar to my point. The type of prayer/what the prayer is about must be qualified... one cannot factually claim "all prayer good"
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vernuf
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Post by vernuf on Jun 20, 2017 16:15:54 GMT
Article is solid but thread title is ludicrous. Eating corn can provide health benefits. This does not, by extension, mean corn's cultivation and growth hasn't led to a plethora of issues as a mono-crop, along with the accompanying criticisms. As with so many of the OP's threads, the logic is inches deep, the issue itself a chasm. That a practice can provide positives is by no means an indication it doesn't carry or lead to accompanying negatives. Black/white thinking is silly. So your solution is to stop eating corn instead of dealing with "curable" potential ssues caused by it? That's just stupid. You like to argue against things people don't actually say, don't you?
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 20, 2017 16:52:16 GMT
And? That problem is not intrinsic to prayer. And: Prayer is not intrinsically good. In my opinion we can criticize any action that causes harm. If prayer helps a terrorist to be more focused and kill more people more efficiently, or, as mentioned before, if people pray for their sick children instead of taking them to the doctor, then we have every right to criticize prayer. My point is that we should criticise bad prayer and not the concept of prayer all together.
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 20, 2017 16:53:24 GMT
So your solution is to stop eating corn instead of dealing with "curable" potential ssues caused by it? That's just stupid. You like to argue against things people don't actually say, don't you? I have looked at it again and the retard seems to think I think all prayer should be off limits.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:59:35 GMT
I'm not going to refrain from criticising belief in God for as long as religious people still wield both the desire and the power to restrict my liberties. That's not specific to prayer, but to religion in general. If someone's religious, then prayer is just one of their delusional habits and not something that is pernicious in and of itself.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 20, 2017 19:08:11 GMT
Article is solid but thread title is ludicrous. Eating corn can provide health benefits. This does not, by extension, mean corn's cultivation and growth hasn't led to a plethora of issues as a mono-crop, along with the accompanying criticisms. As with so many of the OP's threads, the logic is inches deep, the issue itself a chasm. That a practice can provide positives is by no means an indication it doesn't carry or lead to accompanying negatives. Black/white thinking is silly. So your solution is to stop eating corn instead of dealing with "curable" potential ssues caused by it? The strawman builder strikes again. Your strawmen certainly are.
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 20, 2017 19:09:24 GMT
So your solution is to stop eating corn instead of dealing with "curable" potential ssues caused by it? The strawman builder strikes again. Your strawmen certainly are. Look at my reply to Vurnuf
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Post by phludowin on Jun 20, 2017 19:10:18 GMT
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 20, 2017 19:10:45 GMT
I'm not going to refrain from criticising belief in God for as long as religious people still wield both the desire and the power to restrict my liberties. That's not specific to prayer, but to religion in general. If someone's religious, then prayer is just one of their delusional habits and not something that is pernicious in and of itself. Why not just criticise the power it has and "restricting liberties"?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:16:54 GMT
"Liberties" has nothing to do with "libertarian free will". It's about restricting the decisions that I am able make as an individual.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:22:06 GMT
I'm not going to refrain from criticising belief in God for as long as religious people still wield both the desire and the power to restrict my liberties. That's not specific to prayer, but to religion in general. If someone's religious, then prayer is just one of their delusional habits and not something that is pernicious in and of itself. Why not just criticise the power it has and "restricting liberties"? Because that wouldn't be sufficient to enable the followers of religion to see why their religion is incorrect. If the majority of citizens in a society share certain religious values, then those values are going to be represented in a democratic government. The only way to stop religion from interfering is to defeat it with logic, not to kindly ask people not to impose their religious values on my life.
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 20, 2017 19:30:39 GMT
Why not just criticise the power it has and "restricting liberties"? Because that wouldn't be sufficient to enable the followers of religion to see why their religion is incorrect. If the majority of citizens in a society share certain religious values, then those values are going to be represented in a democratic government. The only way to stop religion from interfering is to defeat it with logic, not to kindly ask people not to impose their religious values on my life. Religion is fine just as long as it doesn't influence ethics or discourage you to act because "god will help".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:33:16 GMT
Because that wouldn't be sufficient to enable the followers of religion to see why their religion is incorrect. If the majority of citizens in a society share certain religious values, then those values are going to be represented in a democratic government. The only way to stop religion from interfering is to defeat it with logic, not to kindly ask people not to impose their religious values on my life. Religion is fine just as long as it doesn't influence ethics or discourage you to act because "god will help". You cannot prevent religion from influencing ethics. That's why you have to debunk religion rather than to politely ask the entire religious population of society to kindly refrain from imposing their values on you.
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PanLeo
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 20, 2017 19:42:37 GMT
Religion is fine just as long as it doesn't influence ethics or discourage you to act because "god will help". You cannot prevent religion from influencing ethics. That's why you have to debunk religion rather than to politely ask the entire religious population of society to kindly refrain from imposing their values on you. All you have to do is provide an alternate to divine command theory. The vast majority don't let their religion influence ethics.
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