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Post by cupcakes on Jun 19, 2017 16:37:35 GMT
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Post by Cinemachinery on Jun 19, 2017 19:03:32 GMT
Looks like "It's not all Muslims" might be more a more necessary message in the U.K. than was recently posited on this forum. I bet ISIS is delighted. So in a nation of 61,000,000 non Muslims you wish to argue that one man attacking Muslims is a basis for preaching "not all" every single time a Muslim kills non Muslims? I think any instance of plowing a vehicle into a crowd is cause for re-affirming that notion, yes. Words are a light inconvenience. Vehicles less so. And no, I am not happy to be in a "told you so" position, here. No more than I was when this went from a background simmer to foreground violence in the US. I don't think it's the type of thing anyone wants to be right about.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jun 19, 2017 19:24:31 GMT
So in a nation of 61,000,000 non Muslims you wish to argue that one man attacking Muslims is a basis for preaching "not all" every single time a Muslim kills non Muslims? I think any instance of plowing a vehicle into a crowd is cause for re-affirming that notion, yes. Words are a light inconvenience. Vehicles less so. And no, I am not happy to be in a "told you so" position, here. No more than I was when this went from a background simmer to foreground violence in the US. I don't think it's the type of thing anyone wants to be right about. Well, it didn't work then did it. Because we have heard how it's not all since 2001. In 16 years we have been told "not all" while dozens of terror attacks take place across Europe and hundreds die. And when a European eventual and inevitably turns to violence in response, what then...because he clearly didn't give a shit about the not all argument. Maybe we should have spent time combating radical Islam in Europe, instead of banging on about diversity. And the "I told you so" comment was about me, not you, sorry if that came across wrong.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 19, 2017 20:25:52 GMT
This mosque(built and financed by Saudi money) should never have been allowed to reopen in fact it should have been publically razed to the ground in 2003. This mentality led to World War II and the Holocaust.
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Post by progressiveelement on Jun 19, 2017 20:35:53 GMT
Dude who did it lived about 40 minutes by car from me. 😲
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 20:38:15 GMT
This mosque(built and financed by Saudi money) should never have been allowed to reopen in fact it should have been publically razed to the ground in 2003. This mentality led to World War II and the Holocaust. No actually you'll find not razing the beers halls of Munich to the ground because the Weimar government was to weak to address the hate speech being generated by the National Socialists led to the Holocaust. Not excuting every member of the failed Munich coup led to the Holocaust. Crack a history book mate you're an embarrassment to Germans.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 19, 2017 21:05:55 GMT
This mentality led to World War II and the Holocaust. No actually you'll find not razing the beers halls of Munich to the ground because the Weimar government was to weak to address the hate speech being generated by the National Socialists led to the Holocaust. Not excuting every member of the failed Munich coup led to the Holocaust. Crack a history book mate you're an embarrassment to Germans. Maybe you should. Then you'd know that it was the Versailles Treaty that made the Nazis come into power. No Versailles Treaty would have meant no NSDAP, no World War II and no Holocaust. And the Versailles Treaty had exactly in mind to do to Germany what you proposed with the Mosque in question. Oppressing and keeping Germany down, instead of helping it rise again after the lost war. It's a good thing the Allies learnt from their mistakes, as could be seen after World War II. The Marshall Plan and the Wirtschaftswunder ensured that no extremist government was ever in power in Western Germany since World War II. From what I see about this mosque, it was shut down, and then reopened with a moderate management; just like Germany after World War II. The stuff you mentioned about terrorism was all stuff from before 2005. Conclusion: Insults from you about lack of history knowledge should probably be taken as a compliment.
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 19, 2017 21:16:46 GMT
No actually you'll find not razing the beers halls of Munich to the ground because the Weimar government was to weak to address the hate speech being generated by the National Socialists led to the Holocaust. Not excuting every member of the failed Munich coup led to the Holocaust. Crack a history book mate you're an embarrassment to Germans. Maybe you should. Then you'd know that it was the Versailles Treaty that made the Nazis come into power. No Versailles Treaty would have meant no NSDAP, no World War II and no Holocaust. And the Versailles Treaty had exactly in mind to do to Germany what you proposed with the Mosque in question. Oppressing and keeping Germany down, instead of helping it rise again after the lost war. It's a good thing the Allies learnt from their mistakes, as could be seen after World War II. The Marshall Plan and the Wirtschaftswunder ensured that no extremist government was ever in power in Western Germany since World War II. From what I see about this mosque, it was shut down, and then reopened with a moderate management; just like Germany after World War II. The stuff you mentioned about terrorism was all stuff from before 2005. Conclusion: Insults from you about lack of history knowledge should probably be taken as a compliment. You are right here but he is right also. Let's not forget that the League of Nations was WAY too soft on Hitler as well. The Allies still treated Germany like shit after WW2 but it was not as bad as WW1. Let's not forget that Germany was disgracefully partitioned by the imperialists.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 19, 2017 21:21:47 GMT
The Allies still treated Germany like shit after WW2 but it was not as bad as WW1. Let's not forget that Germany was disgracefully partitioned by the imperialists. Actually, the Allies did not treat Germany like shit after WW2. They needed Germany as an ally against the new enemy: The Soviet Union. And they learned from the Versailles treaty that a strong Germany is a better ally against Stalinism. History proved them right. Also, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the treaty that finally concluded World War II wasn't even called a peace treaty. In Germany it's known as the 2+4 treaty; and most politicians and historians consider it a masterpiece of diplomacy. Which it probably is.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 21:24:37 GMT
No actually you'll find not razing the beers halls of Munich to the ground because the Weimar government was to weak to address the hate speech being generated by the National Socialists led to the Holocaust. Not excuting every member of the failed Munich coup led to the Holocaust. Crack a history book mate you're an embarrassment to Germans. Maybe you should. Then you'd know that it was the Versailles Treaty that made the Nazis come into power. No Versailles Treaty would have meant no NSDAP, no World War II and no Holocaust. And the Versailles Treaty had exactly in mind to do to Germany what you proposed with the Mosque in question. Oppressing and keeping Germany down, instead of helping it rise again after the lost war. It's a good thing the Allies learnt from their mistakes, as could be seen after World War II. The Marshall Plan and the Wirtschaftswunder ensured that no extremist government was ever in power in Western Germany since World War II. From what I see about this mosque, it was shut down, and then reopened with a moderate management; just like Germany after World War II. The stuff you mentioned about terrorism was all stuff from before 2005. Conclusion: Insults from you about lack of history knowledge should probably be taken as a compliment. Yeah you understand nothing mate. If the Weimar government had challenged the nazi's and crushed them instead of letting them spew hate speech in the beer halls of Munich there would have been no Holocaust. If the Brutish government doesn't challenge these hate preachers and mosques in the harshest possible terms then the British public will and you'll see another night of broken glass,in which many innocent Muslims will suffer. Let me put this in simple terms for you mate I am not prepared to sacrifice my families safety to a fascistic ideology that crushes all resistance. What you've seen is only the beginning I'm sorry to say. Islam adds nothing of value to my country and never will it's values are incompatible with secular western values and always will be. Any attempt to increase the number of Muslims in the UK must be stopped Germany is just beginning to find that out to it's cost. Watch France mate and the Paris suburbs soon you'll have your answer about how far people are prepared to go.
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 19, 2017 21:27:49 GMT
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Post by PanLeo on Jun 19, 2017 21:30:39 GMT
The Allies still treated Germany like shit after WW2 but it was not as bad as WW1. Let's not forget that Germany was disgracefully partitioned by the imperialists. Actually, the Allies did not treat Germany like shit after WW2. They needed Germany as an ally against the new enemy: The Soviet Union. And they learned from the Versailles treaty that a strong Germany is a better ally against Stalinism. History proved them right. Also, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the treaty that finally concluded World War II wasn't even called a peace treaty. In Germany it's known as the 2+4 treaty; and most politicians and historians consider it a masterpiece of diplomacy. Which it probably is. Why do you think Germany was partitioned in the first place? Germany was just a pawn of both the violent and peaceful proxy war between the Soviet Union and America. Germany also lost land. Austria was taken away as was the Sudetenland, South Tyrol etc. I am a Pan-Germanist. All the German speaking communities should come together and form a nation. Those who speak German are homogenous just like all those who speak French or Portuguese are. Sadly because of Hitler Pan-Germanism is dead. Before Hitler there was actually potential for a "Greater Germany", there was talk of it in the 19th century. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Confederation
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Post by thorshairspray on Jun 19, 2017 21:31:20 GMT
This mosque(built and financed by Saudi money) should never have been allowed to reopen in fact it should have been publically razed to the ground in 2003. This mentality led to World War II and the Holocaust. No, that mentality towards Nazis in 1930s Germany would have prevented the Holocaust. Had the French took Hitler seriously, the Second World war would never have started and after it did the French could have ended it in weeks, but chose to stay quiet and hope the bad man went away. People still refuse to see the danger of militant Islam. We have in Europe Mosques and school teaching young people to hate, not to integrate, that all non Muslims are Kuffar.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 19, 2017 21:36:09 GMT
If the Weimar government had challenged the nazi's and crushed them instead of letting them spew hate speech in the beer halls of Munich there would have been no Holocaust. And do you know why they didn't do it? Because deep down (or even not so deep down), they thought the Nazis had a point. And why did they think it? Because they grew up knowing only authoritarian government (from the Kaiserreich), and they felt humiliated by the Versailles treaty. Germany was only learning democracy; but the humiliation from the Versailles treaty, and especially the economic consequences Germany suffered from ensured that democracy didn't have much of a chance.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 19, 2017 21:41:59 GMT
This mentality led to World War II and the Holocaust. No, that mentality towards Nazis in 1930s Germany would have prevented the Holocaust. Had the French took Hitler seriously, the Second World war would never have started and after it did the French could have ended it in weeks, but chose to stay quiet and hope the bad man went away. Had the French taken Germany seriously, they would not have insisted on the Versailles treaty, and the Nazis would never have come to power. Back to topic: This mosque was apparently a reformed mosque; and no one on this thread has provided any evidence that they were preaching hate after 2005. I am therefore assuming that such evidence doesn't exist.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 21:59:01 GMT
If the Weimar government had challenged the nazi's and crushed them instead of letting them spew hate speech in the beer halls of Munich there would have been no Holocaust. And do you know why they didn't do it? Because deep down (or even not so deep down), they thought the Nazis had a point. And why did they think it? Because they grew up knowing only authoritarian government (from the Kaiserreich), and they felt humiliated by the Versailles treaty. Germany was only learning democracy; but the humiliation from the Versailles treaty, and especially the economic consequences Germany suffered from ensured that democracy didn't have much of a chance. Let me tell you something mate. The treaty of Versailles played a part in the Holocaust. But what the German historians seem to be leading you away from is an uncomfortable truth. Rampant Christian anti-Semitism going back to Martin Luther which ran through every strata of German society is why the holocaust happened. That is the reality, prejudice and nationalism of the most popular unpleasant kind. Unchecked hate speech spewed in the Lutheran and Catholic churches of Germany,year after year,decade after decade rampant anti-Semitism passed from father to son,priest to worshipper. And when a man called Hitler mined that vain all of Europe burned. So you can talk about Treaties and totalitarian governments but the fact of that matter is the German psyche and it's willingness to tolerate fascists is why the Holocaust happened. The British are made of sterner stuff we hate fascists in all forms. And when the Penny is allowed to drop and the Brits see Islam for what it is then you can bet your bottom dollar we wouldn't go quietly into the night.
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 19, 2017 22:05:34 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 22:05:41 GMT
No, that mentality towards Nazis in 1930s Germany would have prevented the Holocaust. Had the French took Hitler seriously, the Second World war would never have started and after it did the French could have ended it in weeks, but chose to stay quiet and hope the bad man went away. Had the French taken Germany seriously, they would not have insisted on the Versailles treaty, and the Nazis would never have come to power. Back to topic: This mosque was apparently a reformed mosque; and no one on this thread has provided any evidence that they were preaching hate after 2005. I am therefore assuming that such evidence doesn't exist. Which part of it should have been destroyed when it was a haven for Islamic terrorism in 2003. Finsbury Park is synonymous with Islamic terrorism. Abu Ghraib prison should have been razed to the ground after Saddam was toppled instead it became a torture chamber for every force that inhabited it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2017 22:09:21 GMT
So let me get this straight. Wanting to stop the spread of the most fascistic and violent ideology on the planet makes me the fascist? Yeah that makes loads of sense.
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Post by cupcakes on Jun 19, 2017 22:15:32 GMT
tpfkar Sure, wanting to go extra-legal and raze things and adopt other tactics of the Islamists makes zero sense. I'm for internment without trial of any Muslim who is deemed a threat to the safety and security of the UK.
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