Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 1:51:53 GMT
I would mourn the loss of the real person, especially a child. The duplicates got new lives, but the originals lost theirs. If they are exact duplicates, they are the same... nothing lost nor gained.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 3, 2017 1:56:34 GMT
I would mourn the loss of the real person, especially a child. The duplicates got new lives, but the originals lost theirs. If they are exact duplicates, they are the same... nothing lost nor gained. The real ones would be gone, though. I would mourn them.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 3, 2017 11:01:27 GMT
My very, very rational reality is that I want to keep existing with my own stream of consciousness. You would keep existing with your own stream of consciousness.
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The Lost One
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Post by The Lost One on Aug 3, 2017 11:21:32 GMT
The way it's done in Star Trek seems fine. Your original body is disassembled, your memories saved, a new body is created then the memories implanted. For all intents and purposes then, it's the same as being teleported.
But imagine if instead of the original body being disassembled, it walks away. Which is the real you? Or is there any such thing as you anyway? If you're married and you both come home to your spouse, who is s/he actually married to - one of you, both of you or neither of you? What if someone eased all these complications by shooting the original - has any wrong been done? After all, "you" still live on, right?
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Post by SciFive on Aug 3, 2017 11:51:22 GMT
My very, very rational reality is that I want to keep existing with my own stream of consciousness. You would keep existing with your own stream of consciousness. A copy of me wouldn't be me.
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Post by permutojoe on Aug 3, 2017 12:01:30 GMT
Would depend on your level of empathy.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 3, 2017 12:10:36 GMT
Here's another look at this... The movie Oblivion!! A young woman rescued from a long sleep on a spacecraft discovers that her husband is long gone but there is a clone of him who only remembers bits and pieces of being with her.
Actually, there are multiple clones of her husband. She falls back in love with one of the clones and he dies while stopping the aliens who cloned him and took over the Earth.
She has fond memories and a young child by the clone. Then, another of her husband's clones shows up after looking for her with some other people - and he gives her the smile of love typical of her husband and the other clone who gave her a baby.
Would you love the new clone? I sure as heck would, if I were her.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 3, 2017 16:48:14 GMT
A copy of me wouldn't be me. The copy of you would certainly disagree and would use your credit cards, go back to live in the same home, hang out with same family, and eat your food. His/her steam of consciousness, which you claim is so important, would continue uninterrupted.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 3, 2017 18:48:55 GMT
A copy of me wouldn't be me. The copy of you would certainly disagree and would use your credit cards, go back to live in the same home, hang out with same family, and eat your food. His/her steam of consciousness, which you claim is so important, would continue uninterrupted. Her stream of consciousness would be mine - but it wouldn't be me. I'd be gone.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 4, 2017 10:50:42 GMT
Her stream of consciousness would be mine - but it wouldn't be me. I'd be gone. No, you'd be in a different location and you'd move on with your life. There is no rational way you can say you'd be "gone", since all that has happened is a fast version of the atom and molecule replacement that happens over your lifetime anyway. Again, this silly position of yours has no basis in science or objective reality. It is an emotional response based on an absurd philosophical stance which you can't defend.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 4, 2017 11:20:16 GMT
Her stream of consciousness would be mine - but it wouldn't be me. I'd be gone. No, you'd be in a different location and you'd move on with your life. There is no rational way you can say you'd be "gone", since all that has happened is a fast version of the atom and molecule replacement that happens over your lifetime anyway. Again, this silly position of yours has no basis in science or objective reality. It is an emotional response based on an absurd philosophical stance which you can't defend. When you take a Xerox copy of something - even with the best copier in the world that does it so well in color that you have to struggle to tell the difference between the original and the copy - the copy is still a copy. This is science. Making a duplicate of something doesn't make it the original. P.S. I've got color copies of documents so accurate that the only way you can tell them from the originals is to feel the paper for the pen indents when people signed the originals. In spite of all this near perfection, when I take these documents to be used officially, the authorities refuse the copies and hold out for the originals (because they know how to feel for pen indents, too). They will NOT accept copies. This is science - and reality.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 4, 2017 16:42:48 GMT
This is science - and reality. No, it's goofy philosophy and goofy ideology. Say, despite all your protestations about never being transported, the tech was invented and you accidentally got transported somewhere. As far as you are concerned, your consciousness is of having been in one location and suddenly finding yourself in another location. According to your ridiculous philosophy, you are no longer the "real" you, and the "real" you has died. What would you do? If you really believed this nonsense, the new you would have no right to your money, no legal residence, no job, no real friends and loved ones, and would basically be a homeless person. Unless you behaved as if all of these statements are true, you don't really believe what you say you believe, period.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 5, 2017 18:25:45 GMT
This is science - and reality. No, it's goofy philosophy and goofy ideology. Say, despite all your protestations about never being transported, the tech was invented and you accidentally got transported somewhere. As far as you are concerned, your consciousness is of having been in one location and suddenly finding yourself in another location. My own consciousness would be gone, but my copy would believe that she is the original me. So she (the copy) could go on living my life, although my original self would no longer exist. She might make every decision as I would make it without ever knowing the difference, but she wouldn't be me. She would still be a copy of me. She could own everything I own and see everything I would have seen, but she would still be a copy (not the original me). This is science.
A copy of me can be identical to me and live like me, but it can never be the original me.
However...
If they can transport me with all my original molecules (so that none of them are copies, but they all go over to the next place as originals with no replacements at all - at least not for my brain), then I'm ok with it. The same molecules for my brain (at the very least) would still be me.
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Post by heeeeey on Aug 5, 2017 19:43:59 GMT
Yes, because I believe consciousness is separate from the physical anyway, so it wouldn't matter if my consciousness were transferred to another form--as long as I was just as good-looking, I wouldn't mind.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 6, 2017 10:39:27 GMT
This is science.
A copy of me can be identical to me and live like me, but it can never be the original me. No, it is philosophy. You have no idea what you are talking about. Except for the molecules in your teeth, none of the molecules in your body or brain are the ones you started with. Your body is being recreated and replaced on a constant basis. According to science, all that is relevant in identifying one atom or molecule from another is information. When we teleport atoms around--yes, we can do this today--it is the information which is recreated in the new location. If a Star Trek style teleporter does this, then the recreated you has the "original" molecules in every sense that science recognizes. If you have a problem with this, then you have a problem with science.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 6, 2017 10:43:05 GMT
This is science.
A copy of me can be identical to me and live like me, but it can never be the original me. No, it is philosophy. You have no idea what you are talking about. Except for the molecules in your teeth, none of the molecules in your body or brain are the ones you started with. Your body is being recreated and replaced on a constant basis. According to science, all that is relevant in identifying one atom or molecule from another is information. When we teleport atoms around--yes, we can do this today--it is the information which is recreated in the new location. If a Star Trek style teleporter does this, then the recreated you has the "original" molecules in every sense that science recognizes. If you have a problem with this, then you have a problem with science.Science is on my side in this. I'm not a chair. My consciousness matters. If I lose it and a copy acquires it, the copy isn't me. A copy is a copy. Science backs me up on this.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 6, 2017 10:56:43 GMT
Science is on my side in this. A copy is a copy. Science backs me up on this. This position of yours has nothing to do with science. It is pretty clear that you are scientifically illiterate. According to science, the processes which create your consciousness obey the same mindless, mechanical rules that the molecules and atoms of a chair obey. There is absolutely nothing special about your consciousness that is lost when you are teleported. To insist otherwise is to ignore actual science in favor of an idiotic philosophical ideology.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 6, 2017 11:10:44 GMT
Science is on my side in this. A copy is a copy. Science backs me up on this. This position of yours has nothing to do with science. It is pretty clear that you are scientifically illiterate. According to science, the processes which create your consciousness obey the same mindless, mechanical rules that the molecules and atoms of a chair obey. There is absolutely nothing special about your consciousness that is lost when you are teleported. To insist otherwise is to ignore actual science in favor of an idiotic philosophical ideology. Chairs aren't conscious, but people are. If someone else gets a copy of my consciousness and I'm gone, then I'm not here anymore. I refuse to give up my consciousness and my self. This is science.
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Post by faustus5 on Aug 6, 2017 13:21:50 GMT
Chairs aren't conscious, but people are. Completely irrelevant. Physics works the same way regardless of whether an entity is conscious or not. You're not gone, just in a new place. No, it is just idiocy spouted by fucking clueless moron.
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Post by SciFive on Aug 6, 2017 13:29:59 GMT
faustus5If my current stream of consciousness is copied to go elsewhere (and mine is ended), then I am gone. This is science. Our consciousness is physical - in our heads/brains - because we are living beings with conscious thought processes.
If you copy them elsewhere, the result is copies.
It wouldn't be me.
This is strictly based on science.
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