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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 19:27:22 GMT
They didn't seem to mind that the PT featured another hero from the dessert with ultra-mega-stupendous Force potential, or that Amidala was fashioned to echo Leia, or that Qui Gon/Kenobi was homage to Kenobi/Luke, or that catch phrases were repeated to pay homage to the OT, or that another non-human/rustic tribe came out of nowhere to distract the bad buy army whilst our featured heroes infiltrated a stronghold as a small group, or that the main hero isn't trusted by Jedi establishment, or that there's anther cyborg villain, or that our heroes scrimmaged against slobber-toothed monsters again in front of a mocking audience or that the most prevalent, overt villain was another fallen Jedi, or that our hero got his hand chopped off, etc. Beat for beat, TESB and ROTJ paid homage to ANH, and in more obvious fashion, the PT paid homage to the OT. Everybody should understand this by now or they don't belong on a SW board. The real truth is that the new creative team features some feminists and liberals. That's actually true. Conservative anti-feminists smell a rat. Is Rey a female badass who embarrasses the bumbling Finn at times? Yes. Is there contrived diversity in the film and will this continue as a trend in future films? Yes. And is this some liberal agenda? Yes, kind of. Liberals are going to make films with some liberal themes. The few conservative filmmakers out there will make their films with more conservative themes. SO?!?!? As a hardcore conservative, I don't appreciate contrived diversity and I loathe feminism. Pushing that aside, Rey is a more interesting character than Luke or Anakin (considering only what we saw in the seven episodic films...when we go to novels and supplemental material, this opinion would definitely shift) and Daisy turned in a MUCH BETTER acting performance than Lloyd, Christensen or Hamill. Most of this nit-picking of TFA is centered in that and most of the rest is PT lovers who are unhappy that Disney wants to supposedly put distance between the franchise and midi-chlorians.Nobody cares about the Midichlorians being a theme in SW anymore. Not even prequel fans. Yeah that must be the reason. Suuuuuuuure. "Most of"....."most of the rest..." So you didn't understand my post. I'll restate it in qualifying rough quantities: 80% of the complaints I've read are politically-motivated Mary Sue garbage. Of the remaining 20%, 80% of those always seem to include defense of the PT.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 19:36:16 GMT
Thank you. Considering your blind worship of TFA and it's impact on your overall poor taste in SW, I take that as a compliment. I hardly worship it, bro. I wouldn't be talking about Rey or rehashes or even how great I thought the movie was on these boards at all if it weren't for the likes of you and your ilk making about ten times more noise on these boards than your numbers should indicate. Instead, I'd be on here almost exclusively rambling about Plagueis theories or Sith history, because that's what interests me. But, alas, when I come to the board to peacefully attempt to provide insight or to learn from others with different insights about Sith history, there's a million posts and threads from the same 12 assholes smacking me in the face hard enough to sidetrack me. It's annoying. You're annoying.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 19:39:22 GMT
Nobody cares about the Midichlorians being a theme in SW anymore. Not even prequel fans. Yeah that must be the reason. Suuuuuuuure. "Most of"....."most of the rest..." So you didn't understand my post. I'll restate it in qualifying rough quantities: 80% of the complaints I've read are politically-motivated Mary Sue garbage. Of the remaining 20%, 80% of those always seem to include defense of the PT. Then yousa must be targeting what posts yousen read regarding TFA complaints. There has been lots of complaints about the rehash. Some complaints about Finn for multiple reasons. Complaints about cutting Luke out of the movie. And even other things like cheesy Disney dialogue and poor supporting characters like Plutt and Phasma.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jun 22, 2017 20:35:10 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 21:08:45 GMT
What you seem to miss in your analysis is that I did not quote and reply to the complainer. I commiserated with someone who shares my opinion. Also, I admit, I bring baggage from the other site. You (and the other 11 haters) quoted/replied to many of my comments - like you did in this thread - with diatribe so conflated, confused, repetitive and annoying that even Fred Rogers would lose his patience . I did not initiate the tit-for-tat then and I didn't do it in this thread. I am not really interested in debating haters, you particularly. I do, however, reserve the right to publicly discuss how annoying you all are and how hyperbolic and piss-poor your film criticism is. You want to talk about rehash? HOLY SHIT! Nothing is as rehashed quite as much as your seven catch phrases in criticism of TFA.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 21:15:37 GMT
This comment right here shows just how woefully ignorant you are about the talent that it takes to be a professional at anything, especially something as complicated, stressful and creative as being a major motion picture director. You probably also think that some of your athletic friends can run faster than the 7-footers in the NBA or that LeBron James would make a great NFL player or that you could do a better job coaching your favorite sports team than the guy they currently have. Dude, like him or not, Abrams has more talent in his pinky than me and every other fuckwad on this board. Any other assertion just makes you look naive.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jun 22, 2017 21:30:43 GMT
What you seem to miss in your analysis is that I did not quote and reply to the complainer. I commiserated with someone who shares my opinion. Also, I admit, I bring baggage from the other site. You (and the other 11 haters) quoted/replied to many of my comments - like you did in this thread - with diatribe so conflated, confused, repetitive and annoying that even Fred Rogers would lose his patience . I did not initiate the tit-for-tat then and I didn't do it in this thread. I am not really interested in debating haters, you particularly. I do, however, reserve the right to publicly discuss how annoying you all are and how hyperbolic and piss-poor your film criticism is. You want to talk about rehash? HOLY SHIT! Nothing is as rehashed quite as much as your seven catch phrases in criticism of TFA. Of course everything I say is boiled down to 7 catch phrases and hyperbole. 🙄 I could go on and on and on about how embarrassingly hypocritical that I find your statement since I could make the same claims about you and your compadres sometimes. But really the only thing that accurately describes what I felt after reading that is... ...to steal the phrase from Jan El Señor ... LOL at how mad you got! Peace out. ✌️
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 22:02:49 GMT
Of course everything I say is boiled down to 7 catch phrases and hyperbole. 🙄 I could go on and on and on about how embarrassingly hypocritical that I find your statement since I could make the same claims about you and your compadres sometimes. But really the only thing that accurately describes what I felt after reading that is... ...to steal the phrase from Jan El Señor ... LOL at how mad you got! Peace out. ✌️ I just don't like you, so go bother someone else, which seems to be your goal on message boards in general.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Jun 22, 2017 22:21:32 GMT
Of course everything I say is boiled down to 7 catch phrases and hyperbole. 🙄 I could go on and on and on about how embarrassingly hypocritical that I find your statement since I could make the same claims about you and your compadres sometimes. But really the only thing that accurately describes what I felt after reading that is... ...to steal the phrase from Jan El Señor ... LOL at how mad you got! Peace out. ✌️ I just don't like you, so go bother someone else, which seems to be your goal on message boards in general. Come on, man. "If so powerful you are, why leave?" And all that. But seriously: you're the only pro-TFA person here besides furious, and the poor sod can barely string together a cogent dick joke or gay bash coherently most of the time. Not for lack of trying, either. At least you hit the ball back across the net! And you seem well-versed in the (real/original) EU. I'll bet we've lots of overlapping interests about the galaxy far, far away. What's your favorite EU book not about Plagueis, incidentally? Edited to add: oh, and shick-whatever is pro-TFA, I guess, or at least "deferentially optimistic" about it. But apart from him, that's it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 23:09:31 GMT
I just don't like you, so go bother someone else, which seems to be your goal on message boards in general. Come on, man. "If so powerful you are, why leave?" And all that. But seriously: you're the only pro-TFA person here besides furious, and the poor sod can barely string together a cogent dick joke or gay bash coherently most of the time. Not for lack of trying, either. At least you hit the ball back across the net! And you seem well-versed in the (real/original) EU. I'll bet we've lots of overlapping interests about the galaxy far, far away. What's your favorite EU book not about Plagueis, incidentally? Edited to add: oh, and shick-whatever is pro-TFA, I guess, or at least "deferentially optimistic" about it. But apart from him, that's it! I'm not leaving. I think you have me confused with Jan. I heard he's leaving, lol. I've already encountered more TFA supporters than haters on this board. Buuuut...as previously stated, I've intentionally stayed away from the TFA board, so my tally may be myopic. Favorite EU book besides Darth Plagueis is Book of Sith (of course, this includes a section about Plagueis, so I may have just cheated on this answer). But in general, I found that I liked all of them that took place during or before the chronology of the films. I did not care for the direction that the galaxy took in the post-ROTJ EU books, so I became disinterested after Courtship of Princess Leia and did not continue reading SW novels beyond that part of the timeline. Of course, it doesn't mean I don't have a cursory knowledge of the events that took place in those Jacen Solo and Mara Jade adventures, because, well, I'm still a nut, so I've spent a great deal of time on Wookiepedia. I am halfway home to catching up on what are now canon novels (Lords of the Sith and Tarkin were great one-offs and I've enjoyed the Aftermath trilogy....the others have all been decent) and cartoons. Because if there's a clue to be found that further proves Plagueis is Snoke, I'm going to find it. And if there's something that indicates someone else, I'm going to find that. One way or another, come December, I'm going to suss out who that fucker is. By the way, that's also the primary reason I am on SW message boards at all. I want to know if someone finds something before I do. What are your favorite EU books? Also, see, I'm not a total doucher. You're making diplomatic overtures and I am happy to accept them. Don't call me an idiot and I won't call you an idiot and all that kind of happy horseshit. I like to keep debate on-point and courteous so long as the person I'm debating can do the same. I tend to play down to my competition though, so I admit I'll engage in a verbal fist-fight when pushed.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jun 22, 2017 23:17:04 GMT
This comment right here shows just how woefully ignorant you are about the talent that it takes to be a professional at anything, especially something as complicated, stressful and creative as being a major motion picture director. You probably also think that some of your athletic friends can run faster than the 7-footers in the NBA or that LeBron James would make a great NFL player or that you could do a better job coaching your favorite sports team than the guy they currently have. Dude, like him or not, Abrams has more talent in his pinky than me and every other fuckwad on this board. Any other assertion just makes you look naive. First of all, you would be wrong about your metaphorical assessments regarding me. Secondly, Abrams doesn't have a single respectable writing accolade to his credit. Seriously it sounds like you're making excuses for him. Most of his writing has been rehashing previous works. Let's not even get into his mystery box writing element that he created and has drawn heavy criticism. Let's look at what he did write in TFA (with the emphasis on what was original). The portion of the story about Luke disappearing and the search to find him came from Michael Arndt. Albeit from some comments he made it seems he was pressured to continually move back the point where Luke is discovered further and further back in the story. (Likely Kathleen Kennedy because of fear he steals the spotlight from Rey). By the time Abrams gets Arndt's script treatments he is moving Luke all the way back to the end of the movie in one brief cameo that has no dialogue. (That was Abrams doing and it was something that fans complained about also). Now Abrams has Arndt's story element and he teams up with Kasdan to write the bulk of the story left over. Supposedly the concept they're going for is "what would happen if the Nazi leaders who fled to South America after World War 2 were able to come back to power and take over Europe again and pursue the same brand of world domination that they practiced during WW2. But the script story is essentially a rehash of ANH tweaked to how Kasdan would've written it if it had been him instead of George Lucas. In essence a Kasdan version rewrite. Kasdan (not Abrams) primarily handles the development of the "new Vader", Kylo Ren. Most if not all of the credit for that character goes to Kasdan. For some unknown reason the start of the writing collaboration is procrastinated upon. And it's hammered out in 3 weeks (give or take a week) in Paris, France. And that under mostly the most unconventional of means. Over gourmet lunches and dinners at fine restaurants and strolls through Parisian parks while talking into voice recorders. Finally the star character Rey has to be filled out in the story and Abrams takes the primary responsibility for this. How does he do it? Primarily by grabbing snippet ideas from co-workers, friends and peers in the industry. (Not from consulting respected filmmakers or novelists in the genre). One such example is how he got the idea of Rey downloading the Force in the pause and meditation moment (when Rey says "the Force?") to defeat Kylo. He took that from a feminist filmmaker who also does African American genre films who has no sci-fi/fantasy background. You're not going to convince me that his methods and works are some new approach to quality writing. And for that matter there's plenty of examples of better writing (far better writing) from other successful filmmakers, playwrights, and novelists. He is successful because he rehashes already successful classic works. Then he repackages it with his brand of pacing and cinematography (mediocre to very good IMO)... adds his own formulas: mystery box (roundly criticized and controversial, not just my opinion), and fanfic contributions (amateurish and partially gathered from pop-culture peers rather than respected and proven sources and related experts). Disney dumped the old EU and Kathleen Kennedy hired writers to retcon all the weaknesses of the script with a contrived novelization and website backstory. And novels from quality writers who could pick and choose from leftover elements of the old EU that they choose; combined with their own creativity to build a new expanded universe to create depth to TFA's SW and justify the existence of so much rehash that existed in TFA beyond the usual ring theory repetition of some mantras, concepts and themes; and typically to a lesser degree cloned cultures, environments, characterizations and motifs so prevalent in TFA. You obviously have much enthusiasm borne out of the new EU. And it's given you much confidence to perceive that the quality of the new EU writing means that TFA is all part of that same level of quality of writing. But IMO much of the embodiment of the novelization didn't make it onscreen because it is a retcon work that was a made to clean up a poorly written script from a bad writer in Abrams. And Rian Johnson has the task and responsibility to further clean up Abrams rehash and poor fanfic elements from TFA that he dropped in Johnson's lap. In addition to doing a much better job at harmonizing and encompassing the new EU to the onscreen finished product. Or did Kathleen Kennedy and Abrams being the producer force Johnson to rigidly follow the formula and production process of TFA just because it made 2 billion dollars? If they do the latter in episode 8 and eventually 9, then the new EU will become another one of Abrams dead-end mystery boxes that never culminates onscreen. Long story short, I don't trust the people in charge based upon their track record. Especially Abrams. After closely examining his process and his product, that's why I post some of the stuff that I post. But we will see... I still maintain Abrams is a bad writer and their are fanfic writers a plenty who could do just as good or better (you included). But that's just me. Keep doing your own fanfic...
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jun 22, 2017 23:25:55 GMT
Of course everything I say is boiled down to 7 catch phrases and hyperbole. 🙄 I could go on and on and on about how embarrassingly hypocritical that I find your statement since I could make the same claims about you and your compadres sometimes. But really the only thing that accurately describes what I felt after reading that is... ...to steal the phrase from Jan El Señor ... LOL at how mad you got! Peace out. ✌️ I just don't like you, so go bother someone else, which seems to be your goal on message boards in general. Yeah, sure you weren't. If you weren't mad and simply don't like me, why even bother responding? The first thing you said... and I quote... it started with "Hi Waxer..." If all your responses were meant to get under my skin or discourage me with insults, it failed miserably. But it's been quite entertaining watching you put this much effort into it! 😁
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Post by Surly on Jun 23, 2017 0:40:12 GMT
Of course everything I say is boiled down to 7 catch phrases and hyperbole. 🙄 I could go on and on and on about how embarrassingly hypocritical that I find your statement since I could make the same claims about you and your compadres sometimes. But really the only thing that accurately describes what I felt after reading that is... ...to steal the phrase from Jan El Señor ... LOL at how mad you got! Peace out. ✌️ I just don't like you, so go bother someone else, which seems to be your goal on message boards in general. "Good! Let the hate flow through you boy!!"
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Post by ryboto on Jun 23, 2017 2:13:06 GMT
It's getting fucking roudy up in hurr! Get it get it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 14:07:26 GMT
I just don't like you, so go bother someone else, which seems to be your goal on message boards in general. "Good! Let the hate flow through you boy!!"
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Post by moviemeisters on Jun 23, 2017 15:10:00 GMT
Well, you do have a point there, but I believe there's a fine line between taking inspiration from things and bordering on remake. These films have styles and sensibilities that would be unique in the Star Wars narrative without feeling out of place, so, I guess, if anything, they'd be original in the Star Wars mythos. Point is, though. These films were character-centric and, at least, pretty good, so, if there's any chance that their more favorable elements could find their way into TLJ, then I'm all for it. Thanks for the response! I agree with that statement, however I think it has become a little too easy to just right things off as "a remake" of some previous movie. When two movies share some things, it doesn't automatically make the latter a ripoff. I’m also with you on Looper. That is one hell of a good sci-fi movie. I watched some of your review of Alien Covenant. I liked it. It's not without its flaws, but I did enjoy it. Good point! There are always going to be things that ring familiar (hehe "ring") in the SW mythos (new and old). TFA went a little too far with that (Starkiller base wasn't needed). Still liked the film, but that element was the most distracting. Thanks! We're constantly trying to improve our review style, so any feedback is great.
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Post by Surly on Jun 23, 2017 15:22:16 GMT
"Good! Let the hate flow through you boy!!" "I can feel your anger... Take your insults and strike Waxer-n-boil down with all your hatred and your journey toward the Darkside will be complete!"
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Post by kuatorises on Jun 23, 2017 15:33:02 GMT
Of course everything I say is boiled down to 7 catch phrases and hyperbole. 🙄 I could go on and on and on about how embarrassingly hypocritical that I find your statement since I could make the same claims about you and your compadres sometimes. But really the only thing that accurately describes what I felt after reading that is... ...to steal the phrase from Jan El Señor ... LOL at how mad you got! Peace out. ✌️ I just don't like you, so go bother someone else, which seems to be your goal on message boards in general. There is a group of people here – am I here I mean the store sports in particular – who seemingly exist for no other reason than to yell at people for disliking the prequels and/or liking TFA. I don't even bother with them. There's no good conversation to be had with them. It's the same thing over and over. They actually ruin this board. I used to love to talk Star Wars on IMDb, but I don't even bother here most of the time.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 16:31:59 GMT
Tarpals finds it amusing how TFA lover/prequel haters get on forums and always claim that they're just there to discuss Star Wars. Yet they also regularly have conversations bashing da prequels and their fans. Or bashing those who dislike or criticize TFA. If someone brings up da slightest criticism of TFA (even people who still like TFA despite their particular criticism) they immediately raise an argument to deconstruct that criticism and paint da picture that it's invalid. They mock those who don't acquiesce and agree.
Then they complain that when prequel fans or TFA haters respond to them they are being harassed by prequel fan trolls who only exist to shout TFA hate at them. And then that they hate the environment created by them. And it forces them to leave or reduce their activity.
Yet when they do da same things to prequel fans or TFA critics they themselves are not harassing trolls (according to them). They're just Star Wars fans discussing da truths of da quality of Star Wars!
And Captain will say this: meesa hasn't seen one pro prequel thread on this forum where TFA fans/prequel haters attacked or replied with criticism and da pro prequel people complained that they needed to leave or be left alone. Or things were being ruined for them. There's examples of it right here on da SW sub-boards that back up what Tarpals is saying...
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Post by ryboto on Jun 23, 2017 16:42:14 GMT
Interestingly enough, I don't see anyone who dislikes TFA or defends the Prequels actually insulting anyone...yet, PT defenders actually get insulted for their opinion, and are seemingly insulted by others thinking TFA is a pile of crap. I understand there's emotional attachment, but there's rarely a constructive back and forth.
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