Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 3:41:01 GMT
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jun 28, 2017 8:07:44 GMT
so you have scoured the internet to get these random critisisms from random , unknown sites ? well done you.
every star wars film has room for cristism from all walks of life, at the end of the day it was recieved well by the critics and fans , scored higher than the prequels and made far far more at the box office , thats a sign of a good film right there for me, this is something you are going to have to accept and live with , you fucking raging homo
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Post by miike80 on Jun 28, 2017 8:15:10 GMT
of course she is
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2017 18:11:27 GMT
so you have scoured the internet to get these random critisisms from random , unknown sites ? well done you.
every star wars film has room for cristism from all walks of life, at the end of the day it was recieved well by the critics and fans , scored higher than the prequels and made far far more at the box office , thats a sign of a good film right there for me, this is something you are going to have to accept and live with , you fucking raging homo
TPM was da #3 box office movie all time at da time it ended its theatrical release run. That's da sign of a good movie right there. Now furious TFA apologist wants to deflect away from the subject. That won't work on da Captain! Everybody not a TFA apologist or not living in SW denial knows TFA is same movie as ANH.
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Jun 30, 2017 19:31:23 GMT
The Mary Sue label overall imo is unfair to women action/adventure movie actors. Male action/adventure film actors do incredible things, including in the Star Wars fanchise, and that's generally accepted by the mass audience. A female action/adventure movie actor does something amazing and then comes the negativity often imo because the actor is female. The history of the Mary Sue label is based on that bias. The label grew among certain Star Trek fans who didn't want Uhura for instance to get more screen time because that would take time away from male characters. So because of the bias of the label, I'm not voting in this poll. BB ;-) dude, pretty much every line in this post is uninformed, false or simply a lie. Based on that: 1- You clearly do not understand the writing concept, or what it is about, despite there being official definitions by writing sites on this very thread. You lack concept thinking skills. I understand the concept and that there are official definitions about it. 2. You historic breakdown of the trope is a blatant lie. You should be ashamed of yourself. Nope. ...the trope (it's not label, you do not even get the terms right)... A trope can also be a label. For instance "Greedy Jew" is a trope. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GreedyJewBut "Greedy Jew" also a label. www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/nyc-dems-asked-boot-council-hopeful-anti-semitic-remarks-article-1.3101155As every reliable source will tell you: is based on a parody story from 1974 by Paula Smith making fun of such characters in fanfiction, it applies regardless of sex. Sorry but the characters being criticized by Paula Smith were female. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue* Now, there is an attempt to justify this bias in the Wikipedia article by claiming that action/adventure characters at some unknown date were evaluated with no gender bias. The claim in the article is that the "Mary Sue" is now applied equally to all too perfect characters / those that are lacking in realism. - But this is blatantly false. - There is no general criticism of all too perfect/unrealistic male heroes. - The too perfect/unrealistic male 'hero' is a basic theme in literature going back thousands of years and it has morphed into the movie action/adventure hero. There is a long list of too perfect, unrealistic male hero characters from thousands of years ago up to the present day. Gilgamesh, Odysseus, Beowulf, King Arthur to the more recent James Bond, Luke Skywalker, young Anakin, Harry Potter, Neo, etc. (This is about the "The Chosen One" which is also a trope.) - It has taken a long time for women characters in big budget movies to be allowed to be one of these too perfect/unrealistic classic action/adventure heroes. - This bias towards allowing too perfect/unrealistic male characters (while denying women such roles) is so ingrained in many cultures that it will take some time before women action/adventure characters are equally accepted compared with male characters. - Recent big budget action/adventure movies with female leads show that there is some progress in this area but there is still some ways to go. So, the poll still does not get my vote. Imo at least, BB ;-)
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Surly
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Post by Surly on Jul 1, 2017 0:25:11 GMT
The "poor little Rey is being treated unfairly and misogynistically by being called a MarySue" argument is just a crutch used by her fans and defenders. The character clearly fits the criteria. And the claim she is the victim of sexist bias stems from the fact that there's now a term for such a character. And the term hypes this perception since the popularity of it coincides with it being a applied to the Rey character.
The claim that the term doesn't apply to universally criticized flawless male characters isn't true IMO because:
1. There are no universally criticized characters, male or female. There might be examples of widespread criticism but any universally criticized character is an unsuccessful one and wouldn't have a sequel.
2. The term largely "flew under the radar" for many years before it recently went mainstream. And once it did it quickly evolved from a term that very specifically defined a certain writing trope originally tied to a female fanfic character (and any such specific like characters) to the broad definition widely used and accepted today: any character regardless of sex that is flawless, overpowered, whimsically imbued, and universally loved and admired without exception. I've seen countless examples of the term being used that way.
Real talk, little Ani was widely criticized as being a MarySue by TPM critics. And he is not only male but a male child. But that's downplayed with the flawed analogy that "not everyone found 'little Ani' a MarySue". Well of course the majority of his fans (particularly the more passionate ones) wouldn't find him to be a MarySue. The same principle applies to the Rey character.
Then you can't overstate the significance of Rey being a MarySue within her own pre-established universe. If we were given a movie where Lois Lane or Jimmy Olsen suddenly had Superman powers and were beating up on super villains effortlessly and almost as if by accident. And the only explanation we were given is that they had a dream about superpowers, well there'd probably be a lot of backlash from some fans.
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barkingbaphomet
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Post by barkingbaphomet on Jul 2, 2017 10:48:56 GMT
i don't think so. just a slightly ill-dimensioned protagonist.
there were a couple Suey points that i agree with, though.
the Leia hug, in particular. dude, Chewie's right there! you've never met this woman! gah!
i'm actually blanking on the other/s. maybe i'm due for another TFA viewing.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Jul 3, 2017 21:02:06 GMT
i don't think so. just a slightly ill-dimensioned protagonist. there were a couple Suey points that i agree with, though. the Leia hug, in particular. dude, Chewie's right there! you've never met this woman! gah! i'm actually blanking on the other/s. maybe i'm due for another TFA viewing. Spare yourself the ordeal, there are lists dealing with the amateurish MS writing in TFA. Rey is a character as if written by a narcissistic 12 year old: She can do anything, is loved and admired by everybody, and is immediately better at everything. She ends up as captain of the coolest ship, with Luke/Anakin's saber, Han's blaster and R2 and Chewie as her sidekick cheerleaders. In detail:
1. Spotlight stealing: Rey is instantly loved, admired and desired by everybody including her enemies (BB-8, Finn, Han, Chewie, Kylo Ren, Snoke etc), even when this compromises story logic and character backgrounds. Some examples:
- Leia passionately hugs and comforts the complete stranger Rey after the death of Han (and supposed death of her son at Rey’s hand) while old friends Chewie and Leia completely ignore each other; also Leia ignores the returning pilots she commands who won the battle and have lost fellow pilots. This is classic MS writing: only the Sue’s POV and glorification counts, the fact that Leia and Chewie are old friends and the emotional link to late Han, and have always hugged before (Han's carbonite scene etc) is irrelevant;
- Rey takes over the captain and piloting position on the MF after Han dies (she sits in the pilot seat) – Chewie the 600y Wookie remains copilot on his ship even though they just met a few hours before (Sues start at the top);
- Rey the lowly scavenger is sent on the most important galactic Resistance-mission to find Luke - but not his sister Leia (who “desperately” was looking for him) or other Resistance fighters who know Luke! Rey walks up the island, Luke’s old friends Chewie and R2-D2 mysteriously stay back waiting with the ship (Sue is center). The mission was bringing Luke back, not to send him somebody who he can train there on the island.
- Even light sabers and dead OLD MASTERS (Yoda, Obi Wan) call out to Rey, this never happened before with any other Jedi (even “Space Jesus” Anakin) - demonstrating how special Rey is.
- Debatable: Kylo removes helmet before Rey, though from the narrative POV it would have made sense that he only shows his face to Han (Sue is center);
- R2 wakes up as soon as Rey arrives, thus resolving the (underdeveloped) map-mystery plot by a deus ex machina event.
2. "Better than You"/ "Copycat"-Sue: Rey regularly bests other character at their game, or rescues them and/or drains competence from them, thus compromising story and character backgrounds:
- The lifelong soldier Finn looks incompetent and foolish next to Rey (fighting, piloting, languages, Starkiller security and mechanical stuff), is physically beaten by her, and must be rescued by her many times.
- The main antagonist Kylo Ren, the 30 year old Master of the Ren (and Jedi killer), who is established as very powerful, is beaten, maimed and emasculated (broken saber) by Rey physically and on mind-level several times – all that despite of Rey having no proper Force or light saber training. He finally has to be rescued by a clumsy deus ex machina plot device (opening chasm) to be save from her.
- Rey constantly advises and bests Han (and Finn) with her mechanical and engineering ingenuity (astounding for an uneducated scavenger) regarding Han’s ship - driving him to angrily leaving the cockpit ("Away Ball"), and resulting in him offering her a job quickly.
- Rey also replaces C-3PO as a translator, BB-8 seems completely useless because Rey does all the mechanics and engineering to repair and improve the falcon, and even hacks the Starkiller doors!
3. “God Mode Sue” Rey has ad hoc abilities and powers, whenever the story needs her to look good, despite her story background of being a lowly, starving scavenger struggling to survive. Characters speak of her as if she was the second coming (Kylo: “She gets more powerful every moment”). Examples:
- Rey has sudden (pop-up) force abilities on Jedi Master-level (mind trick, telekinesis, mind reading) that took Luke and other Jedi several movies to learn.
- She has amazing stunt-piloting abilities with a bulky, unwieldy freighter (MF) and without a co-pilot (!) speeding and spinning through a graveyard and through a destroyer under heavy fire - without her having ever flown the MF before!,
-Rey has incredible aiming abilities, despite not having shot a blaster before. She only misses one single shot, then blasts away all soldiers with one hit at a great distance running away from them.
-Rey can even hit blindly with the Falcon turret when she is not sitting on the turret gun, but piloting the freighter (“How did you do that ? I don’t know! It was perfect!”),
- Rey speaks all languages of the aliens she accidently meets, including "binary droidspeak" (it was establishes in the OT that humans can’t do that - Luke never could except with cockpit translator); she even speaks Wookie though Wookies are not space travelers/are not seen on Jakku.
- She is an ace engineer ("I bypassed the compressor") and rocket science mechanic;
- Rey even knows how to disable the security system (doors) on the Starkiller base (“The girl knows her stuff”).
- She is an incredible escape artist: she manages to escape the FO by using her ad hoc Jedi mind trick abilities, climbing and shooting skills.
- Rey despite her frail, half-starved condition is a master climber with great spelunking and stick fighting abilities.
- Despite being set up as a starving scavenger woman living in the desert, Rey has unblemished looks (typical Sue trait): she is the only young, beautiful woman around; she wears make up and lipstick and sports impressively white teeth and a super-posh theater accent despite of her background in poverty .
- Rey’s traumas and conflicts disappear at a writer’s convenience: first she melodramatically runs away from Maz/the saber, but later she willingly meets Luke seemingly accepting that her parents won’t come back. What convinced her, what made her leave Jakku/her parents behind in favor of Luke, what are her motives and motivations?
- Rey has a mysterious background, indicating she is very special.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Jul 3, 2017 22:51:31 GMT
One of the worst characters I've had the displeasure of watching in a movie.
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barkingbaphomet
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Post by barkingbaphomet on Jul 3, 2017 22:56:10 GMT
i don't think so. just a slightly ill-dimensioned protagonist. there were a couple Suey points that i agree with, though. the Leia hug, in particular. dude, Chewie's right there! you've never met this woman! gah! i'm actually blanking on the other/s. maybe i'm due for another TFA viewing.*snip* did you have that saved?
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Jul 4, 2017 3:35:07 GMT
He's pretty quick on the draw. Thanks Jedan!
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jul 4, 2017 10:28:06 GMT
One of the worst characters I've had the displeasure of watching in a movie. i do hope you are refering to JAR JAR Binks?
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Post by Jedan Archer on Jul 4, 2017 13:12:55 GMT
I saved it all up for you, so to save you from wasting some precious hours of your lifetime. Make them count. Carpe diem.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jul 4, 2017 20:10:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2017 20:44:04 GMT
Humorous Hyperbole: MarRey had a lot of Sue. It's flawlessness was as awesome as snow. And everywhere that MarRey went her Sue was sure to go.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Jul 5, 2017 13:18:05 GMT
One of the worst characters I've had the displeasure of watching in a movie. i do hope you are refering to JAR JAR Binks? I said 'one of'. Rey and Jar Jar are equally terrible. Rey moreso because her characterization is terrible and inconsistent within the film and universe she's set in.
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Jul 5, 2017 13:26:31 GMT
i do hope you are refering to JAR JAR Binks? I said 'one of'. Rey and Jar Jar are equally terrible. Rey moreso because her characterization is terrible and inconsistent within the film and universe she's set in. you fucking cum drinking drama queen, shes not that fucking bad
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jul 5, 2017 13:38:51 GMT
i do hope you are refering to JAR JAR Binks? I said 'one of'. Rey and Jar Jar are equally terrible. Rey moreso because her characterization is terrible and inconsistent within the film and universe she's set in. I like Jar jar because he makes me laugh by pissing off guys like Furious to no end; and thinking about it, Furious strongly reminds me of Jar Jar, and that's why I like him too, and that's why he hates Jar Jar. So the circle is complete.
Rey is just badly written, and that's it. Now, that's a terrible character.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2017 13:44:54 GMT
I said 'one of'. Rey and Jar Jar are equally terrible. Rey moreso because her characterization is terrible and inconsistent within the film and universe she's set in. I like Jar jar because he makes me laugh by pissing off guys like Furious to no end; and thinking about it, Furious strongly reminds me of Jar Jar, and that's why I like him too, and that's why he hates Jar Jar. So the circle is complete.
Rey is just badly written, and that's it. Now, that's a terrible character.
That's rich, coming from the man who has a Thundercats Avatar and continues to put proper punctuation in the wrong places.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Jul 5, 2017 14:16:08 GMT
I said 'one of'. Rey and Jar Jar are equally terrible. Rey moreso because her characterization is terrible and inconsistent within the film and universe she's set in. you fucking cum drinking drama queen, shes not that fucking bad Had she been a fucking cum drinking drama queen, I'd have enjoyed the film more. As it is she's a Disney Princess in Star Wars attire.
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