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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 16:39:48 GMT
Discuss.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 27, 2017 16:49:40 GMT
They're dead.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 17:18:24 GMT
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 27, 2017 22:54:01 GMT
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Post by clusium on Jun 27, 2017 23:00:34 GMT
They go back to God.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 27, 2017 23:09:22 GMT
If you follow the doctrine of the quickening then there is no soul in an aborted baby, the soul is not placed in the baby until after the quickening. If you think that the baby has a soul, then the only action a just God would perform would be to treat that soul as if it had led a perfect life.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2017 23:21:20 GMT
Then I guess we're pretty much doing them a favour by aborting them.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 27, 2017 23:25:39 GMT
Really?? In your mind a just God condemns a soul to oblivion because the host was aborted?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 28, 2017 1:06:16 GMT
Really?? In your mind a just God condemns a soul to oblivion because the host was aborted? I don't understand the question. In any event dead is dead.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 28, 2017 1:10:40 GMT
Really?? In your mind a just God condemns a soul to oblivion because the host was aborted? I don't understand the question. In any event dead is dead. Situation (from what you seem to suggest): baby is conceived and has a soul at conception, baby is aborted, God lets the soul just end. Why would a just God essentially destroy that soul? Surely a just god would reward it based on it's individual merits (ie it is pure because it is a new soul), not based on what was done to it?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 28, 2017 1:14:52 GMT
I don't understand the question. In any event dead is dead. Situation (from what you seem to suggest): baby is conceived and has a soul at conception, baby is aborted, God lets the soul just end. Why would a just God essentially destroy that soul? Surely a just god would reward it based on it's individual merits (ie it is pure because it is a new soul), not based on what was done to it? God had nothing to do with its destruction. The mother who hated her prekid is at fault. Souls die everyday fr the dumbest of reasons so I hope this isn;t going to turn into a God should save everyone from their stupidity and the stupidity of others post.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 28, 2017 1:28:27 GMT
Situation (from what you seem to suggest): baby is conceived and has a soul at conception, baby is aborted, God lets the soul just end. Why would a just God essentially destroy that soul? Surely a just god would reward it based on it's individual merits (ie it is pure because it is a new soul), not based on what was done to it? God had nothing to do with its destruction. The mother who hated her prekid is at fault. Souls die everyday fr the dumbest of reasons so I hope this isn;t going to turn into a God should save everyone from their stupidity and the stupidity of others post. You missed the point, the soul is innocent, why destroy it? Surely a just god would save it. Um actually how do souls die every day? I don't think that is any doctrine I have heard of.
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Post by thefleetsin on Jun 28, 2017 1:28:59 GMT
they become followers of the trump administration. you really need to concentrate on coming up with more challenging questions.
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Post by captainbryce on Jun 28, 2017 1:31:12 GMT
Really?? In your mind a just God condemns a soul to oblivion because the host was aborted? In my mind, no God would do that. And since that's exactly what the Bible implies, that's another reason I don't believe in the God of the Bible. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies. If we are sinners before we are born, and "all" includes aborted embryos, then logically those embryos are sinners too, and their souls shall die (according to Ezekiel 18). Does it make sense? No! But unless you resort to mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance, that's the plain meaning you come away with. I don't believe that embryos are "people" in the first place, much less "sinners". But that, along with the bible is what Christians believe.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 28, 2017 1:39:16 GMT
Really?? In your mind a just God condemns a soul to oblivion because the host was aborted? In my mind, no God would do that. And since that's exactly what the Bible implies, that's another reason I don't believe in the God of the Bible. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies. If we are sinners before we are born, and "all" includes aborted embryos, then logically those embryos are sinners too, and their souls shall die (according to Ezekiel 18). Does it make sense? No! But unless you resort to mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance, that's the plain meaning you come away with. I don't believe that embryos are "people" in the first place, much less "sinners". But that, along with the bible is what Christians believe. Actually I think you will find that Christians are not monolithic. For example this Christian does not believe that. The Bible implies an awful lot of things, the trick is determining a) what exactly it is implying b) who it is implying it to and c) who made the implication, these should be three of the base criteria for determining what in the bible is true. In addition a number of Christians believe in the quickening, meaning that there is no soul when the baby is aborted.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 28, 2017 2:13:31 GMT
God had nothing to do with its destruction. The mother who hated her prekid is at fault. Souls die everyday fr the dumbest of reasons so I hope this isn;t going to turn into a God should save everyone from their stupidity and the stupidity of others post. You missed the point, the soul is innocent, why destroy it? Surely a just god would save it. Um actually how do souls die every day? I don't think that is any doctrine I have heard of. You're missing the point. God's not destroying anything, humans are. Souls die because people die. Are you thinking I'm saying feus souls are mortal while people souls are immortal? In any event, hour question has been asked and answered repeatedly, so not sure where else to go with this.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 28, 2017 2:17:35 GMT
Really?? In your mind a just God condemns a soul to oblivion because the host was aborted? In my mind, no God would do that. And since that's exactly what the Bible implies, that's another reason I don't believe in the God of the Bible. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies. If we are sinners before we are born, and "all" includes aborted embryos, then logically those embryos are sinners too, and their souls shall die (according to Ezekiel 18). Does it make sense? No! But unless you resort to mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance, that's the plain meaning you come away with. I don't believe that embryos are "people" in the first place, much less "sinners". But that, along with the bible is what Christians believe. Yeah, it's probably best that you don;t tell Christians what they believe. I've aoften wondered why it's so important for people to deduce the beliefs of others when al they're going to do is stick with their own view anyway. For example, I think if you think the Bible's focus is on sinning, then you haven't read it or read it well.
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Post by gadreel on Jun 28, 2017 2:27:04 GMT
You missed the point, the soul is innocent, why destroy it? Surely a just god would save it. Um actually how do souls die every day? I don't think that is any doctrine I have heard of. You're missing the point. God's not destroying anything, humans are. Souls die because people die. Are you thinking I'm saying feus souls are mortal while people souls are immortal? In any event, hour question has been asked and answered repeatedly, so not sure where else to go with this. sorry I am still confused, are you saying that the soul does not live without the body? I thought that the whole doctrine was that we have an afterlife, what is in the afterlife if it is not a soul. and no people are destroying the physical form, God has the option (like with all souls) of saving the soul, it is a basic tenet of Christianity that the soul is available after death, why would a just God not save the soul of a foetus (assuming you believe it has one)?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 28, 2017 2:30:30 GMT
You're missing the point. God's not destroying anything, humans are. Souls die because people die. Are you thinking I'm saying feus souls are mortal while people souls are immortal? In any event, hour question has been asked and answered repeatedly, so not sure where else to go with this. sorry I am still confused, are you saying that the soul does not live without the body? I thought that the whole doctrine was that we have an afterlife, what is in the afterlife if it is not a soul. and no people are destroying the physical form, God has the option (like with all souls) of saving the soul, it is a basic tenet of Christianity that the soul is available after death, why would a just God not save the soul of a foetus (assuming you believe it has one)? I am not aware of the Christian Dictrone being based on the need for an immortal soul. I don;t think the Doctrine teaches an afterlife at all...Only a life. You may be confusing resurrection with afterlife, but that's irrelevant since not everyone is guaranteed that in the first place. There are plenty of Scriptures that point to the fact that dead is dead and so that's what I'm sticking with.
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Post by captainbryce on Jun 28, 2017 2:39:46 GMT
In my mind, no God would do that. And since that's exactly what the Bible implies, that's another reason I don't believe in the God of the Bible. Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies. If we are sinners before we are born, and "all" includes aborted embryos, then logically those embryos are sinners too, and their souls shall die (according to Ezekiel 18). Does it make sense? No! But unless you resort to mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance, that's the plain meaning you come away with. I don't believe that embryos are "people" in the first place, much less "sinners". But that, along with the bible is what Christians believe. Yeah, it's probably best that you don;t tell Christians what they believe. I've aoften wondered why it's so important for people to deduce the beliefs of others when al they're going to do is stick with their own view anyway. For example, I think if you think the Bible's focus is on sinning, then you haven't read it or read it well. I'm not telling anyone what to believe. I'm simply pointing out what the bible says, and how most Christians interpret it (albiet inconsistency). It's not a deduction -- it's the doctrine of the religion. I know because I used to be part of it. Now, one may "pick and choose" which parts to believe and which parts to reject, but then that invalidates the entire belief system. And for the record, I've real most of the bible several times. I think you'll find me quite familiar with it (hence the quotes I just provided). More to the point, I never said that the Bible's focus is on sinning. That's a straw man argument!
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