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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 23:56:04 GMT
Sorry Horseman. Thoughts? Discuss.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 1:18:52 GMT
In terms of importance, yes. But you know I love that red and black.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 1:33:27 GMT
In terms of importance, yes. But you know I love that red and black. Wolfpack? I respect and think: Nash Savage Sting Luger are all legends - but the Red and Black to me just reeked of Old Men trying to act 'Gangsta' I know it was wildly over for a time - but for my own personal taste - I'll take the old school White and Black - Hogan, Hall and Nash
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 1:58:12 GMT
In terms of importance, yes. But you know I love that red and black. Wolfpack? I respect and think: Nash Savage Sting Luger are all legends - but the Red and Black to me just reeked of Old Men trying to act 'Gangsta' I know it was wildly over for a time - but for my own personal taste - I'll take the old school White and Black - Hogan, Hall and Nash I mean, yeah. But I loved it at the time. I was just a dumb kid.
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Post by FridayOnElmStreet on Feb 25, 2017 4:57:27 GMT
I agree.
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Post by Wesley Crusher on Feb 25, 2017 5:00:49 GMT
Yes for sure
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Post by Jayman on Feb 25, 2017 5:50:38 GMT
In terms of the amount of star power, it's hard to argue that. If I looked at a full list of nwo members there's probably some that I forgot were in it.
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Post by MooseNugget on Feb 25, 2017 10:06:34 GMT
WCW kept the group around way too long. The nWo was way watered down too. There was no real longevity to their success.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2017 19:51:59 GMT
WCW kept the group around way too long. The nWo was way watered down too. There was no real longevity to their success. As much as I hated many of the incarnations - I'd definitely rate it a success. I wasn't a fan of the Wolfpack - they were wildly over and crowds would pop beyond belief for them. I didn't get it - but fans ate it up. The problem was - they added too many ham and eggers - which is why they tried to fix it with the 'nWo Elite' - with Hogan, Hall, Nash, Luger, Steiner. I thought nWo 2000 was terrific with Hart, Jarrett, Hall, Nash, Steiner - it's just too bad Hart was on his way out. WWF's short lived version was wildly over at first as well until they killed it. Chalk it up to Hall's problems, Nash getting injured, Hogan swerving face, the many rumors out there how McMahon changed his mind and had Rock and Austin go over at 'Mania 18 - whatever - they pretty much killed it at 'Mania 18
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Post by THE_PURGE on Feb 26, 2017 8:08:33 GMT
WCW kept the group around way too long. The nWo was way watered down too. There was no real longevity to their success. It was beaten like a dead horse and then some.
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Post by THE_PURGE on Feb 26, 2017 8:11:45 GMT
D-Generation X made Wolf Pack look like it's for kids
WCW target audience was for children just like Marvel/Disney.
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Post by Jayman on Feb 26, 2017 8:13:40 GMT
WCW kept the group around way too long. The nWo was way watered down too. There was no real longevity to their success. It was beaten like a dead horse and then some. It definitely was. I just think in that era with all that hotshotting and all those ppvs and hours of live tv every week, they figured they had a winner and there wasn't much to fall back on so they went all in with it. Obviously the talent in the company was off the charts. How could it not be with every other part of the industry basically dead. What made it worse was different factions and too many people in it.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Feb 27, 2017 22:21:19 GMT
Gotta give it to The Four Horsemen (certainly their first and third incarnations) as the greatest faction of all time. They laid the groundwork for what all other factions would be. Working as a unit. Protecting their centerpiece. Attacking outside of the ring. Feuding with the top baby faces. They were the original hero killers.
The nWo is a definite number 2 though. They revolutionized wrestling in the 90s and became the hottest angle between both major companies. There is no denying that first year or two of the nWo was some of the best storytelling in wrestling history.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Feb 27, 2017 22:25:42 GMT
D-Generation X made Wolf Pack look like it's for kids WCW target audience was for children just like Marvel/Disney. Gotta disagree with that. Don't confuse the WWE targeting an older audience with WCW being targeted towards kids. WCW was geared more towards general audiences. Adults and kids could watch. But that didn't make WCW for kids. Don't forget: WCW was the company that started using work/shoots. WCW had their wrestlers using weapons such as ball bats before WWE. The nWo invented the crotch chop (DX stole it). Hogan told his fans to "stick it." And of course, there are the numerous Flair references to "riding Space Mountain." And of course, Marvel/Disney also have some dark story telling moments throughout their history.
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Post by THE_PURGE on Feb 28, 2017 7:13:47 GMT
Gotta disagree with that. Don't confuse the WWE targeting an older audience with WCW being targeted towards kids. WCW was geared more towards general audiences. Adults and kids could watch. But that didn't make WCW for kids. Don't forget: WCW was the company that started using work/shoots. WCW had their wrestlers using weapons such as ball bats before WWE. The nWo invented the crotch chop (DX stole it). Hogan told his fans to "stick it." And of course, there are the numerous Flair references to "riding Space Mountain." And of course, Marvel/Disney also have some dark story telling moments throughout their history. I was with WCW back then and believe me, they were aimed more for the family while WWE took it to the blue collar watcher. There was a clear difference between the two so don't try and "butch up" like WCW was pushing the envelope because they weren't and now they'er done.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Feb 28, 2017 14:30:41 GMT
I was there too. I don't have to "try" and butch it up. I just posted examples of what happened. WCW did a lot of stuff before WWF. WWF was copying them. They just went towards the extreme. WCW also had hardcore matches under Raven's Rules before WWF also.
"they were aimed more for the family while WWE took it to the blue collar watcher."
Exactly. Family does not equal "for children."
And yes, WCW was pushing the envelop. WWF did it in terms of mature content. WCW did it in terms of storytelling.
WCW is gone because of the wrong people being in charge of what happens on screen, not because their wrestlers didn't cuss or engage in lewd acts. Heck, they tried that, and audiences still walked away.
It was the bad stories that drove audiences away, not the lack of "adult" content.
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Post by THE_PURGE on Feb 28, 2017 16:16:00 GMT
Who makes up a family??? Children
To aim at families the storytelling is not mature so I don't even know how the hell you can even state what you did.
They also were letting the wrestlers make the story lines.
And you weren't there.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Feb 28, 2017 16:49:09 GMT
Both children and adults makes up a family. You can have a family with no young children.
"To aim at families the storytelling is not mature so I don't even know how the hell you can even state what you did."
Incorrect, as Marvel, Disney, Pixar, WCW, and just about any other company that isn't strictly rated R has proven over decades. You're thinking of "adult" entertainment. That's not the same as mature storytelling.
With the exception of WCW, those other companies have produced stories with incorporate death, fanaticism, the Holocaust, despair, betrayal, etc.
You can have family program and mature story telling at the same time.
"They also were letting the wrestlers make the story lines."
Yep. Which proved a big problem.
And true, I didn't work for the company. But I watched WCW/JCP long before there was ever even a Nitro, and stayed with it until the very end. Which is how I know WCW was ahead of the game when it came to more mature storytelling. WWF was playing catch up for a while there.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 1, 2017 2:36:55 GMT
Can't believe you guys are supposedly having a serious conversation about the greatest factions ever and nobody's mentioned Los Boricuas!
... Just kidding.
Yeah, I'll buy that assertion that the nWo (particularly the original Nash/Hall/Hogan trio) is the most successful group of all time. Because even the horsemen never had McMahon on his heels at their apex in the mid-80s like the New World Order did in 1996-97. That was a paradigm shift the likes of which are probably impossible today, short of something ludicrous like John Cena showing up in the Impact zone.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Mar 1, 2017 14:20:00 GMT
Mirame los ojos cuando digas mi nombre!
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