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Post by joekiddlouischama on Jul 29, 2017 9:24:31 GMT
... excellent point of comparison. That is the exact difference. Dunkirk was about soldiers surviving to get home, citizens embarking in the war to save lives, spitfire pilots racing against time, and in it, moments of humanity and inhumanity occur. Dunkirk is not the story of a single hero we follow through the movie, hence we were not given one. A second watch would help you connect much more with the characters if you didn't because you already know their story. Tommy, Gibson, Alex, Mr. Dawson, George, Farrier... ... totally true; the subject matter and narrative structure of Dunkirk do not necessarily allow for the same character development as films such as The Revenant and Gravity. On the other hand, Nolan perhaps could have developed these characters and these vignettes more consistently and with a more intimate focus, in part by scaling back some of the spectacle elsewhere. But he wants the aerial fighter sequences, the repeated shots of the huddling officers, and so forth—if he does not necessarily "want it all," he wants a lot, and doing so almost invariably entails some sacrifices. As I indicated in my longer post, I found the characters that you cite to often be intriguing or compelling or promising—but thinly or shallowly sketched, almost like starter kits of characterization that Nolan fails to fully develop. He may have possessed his legitimate reasoning—perhaps to give viewers a portal-like glimpse of the war rather than to presume false intimacy, or just to suggest the anonymity and randomness of wartime "humanity and inhumanity," as you phrase it. But Nolan may have also been too consumed by his desire for spectacle. I would say that Nolan's treatment of characterization would have been more defensible if it was part of a more balanced approach, with somewhat less spectacle and more prolonged character vignettes—or a greater array of them. Although I cannot recall any specifically, there may have been war films in the past that basically sought to survey a bunch of different anonymous characters and their implicit or de facto perspectives in a "cinema verite" mold, also achieving what Richard Brody describes as "multiplicity" in that passage that I quoted in my longer post. Nolan's mode of characterization seems to be more oriented in those directions, except that he never approaches "multiplicity," and "cinema verite" would be somewhat incongruous with his lavish sense of spectacle. I suppose that that is why I referred to his treatment of intimate character stories as a "grab bag" and a "fleeing sprinkle." There are worthwhile elements in this regard, but they are arguably minimized within a larger swirl of spectacle and the sweeping patriotic justifications of the closing sequences. |
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Post by kevin on Aug 2, 2017 14:09:41 GMT
I'm watched Dunkirk today. I couldn't watch it the last 2 weeks because I was on vacation. Because I had to wait 2 weeks I avoided the 'release hype' and getting too high expectations. I went in thinking I was going to see a very good movie that has received some criticism. Almost 2 hours later, Dunkirk surpassed all my expectations.
Baby Driver was my #1 of 2017 so far, but it's stands no change against Dunkirk. Dunkirk is one of Nolan's best films and an early but very strong contender for Best Picture.
Let me first just talk about the sound, which was the best part of the movie. I don't know if it's #1, but Dunkirk definitely has one of the best sound designs I've ever heard in a movie. The sound of the airplanes coming down to shoot people on the beach is just so beautiful, powerful and actually quite terrifying. I honestly think I've never heard better airplane sound in any movie. The same can be said about the gun sounds. It's hard to explain, but many gun sounds in movies sound weird or fake. It sounds like the gun is being shot into a super large pillow or something like that. It sounds a bit muffled. Anyway that wasn't the case in Dunkirk. The gunshots are loud, high-pitched and razor-sharp. And the soundtrack is great as well. Hans Zimmer really outdid himself this time. I think I heard the shepard tone (tone that sounds like it's constantly getting higher) in many pieces of the score and it worked very well. He may not have gotten the Oscar with his soundtrack for Interstellar, but he has a big chance of getting it this time.
The way the story was told was very clever and immediately makes it stand out from other war movies. It almost felt like an episode of Game of Thrones in the way that it constantly switches between places and it makes the movie feel very high-paced. About 10 minutes in I was a bit afraid that the characters would bring this movie down and that I wouldn't be able to connect to them. Luckily that wasn't the case. I don't exactly know how, but without any backstory I was very invested in all of the characters. I want to compliment Nolan on the way he made me care about the characters in an unconventional way. I read some reviews that criticized the characterization so apparently Nolan's technique didn't work for everyone, but it definitely did for me. That brings me to the point that I don't think this is a movie for everyone. It's very experimental and different from the regular blockbuster. It feels like a big-budget indie movie.
If there's one thing everyone agrees on it's that the movie looks amazing and I also agree. It looks brutal and harrowing, but also clinical at the same time and that reminded me a bit of Kubrick. His movies also feel real and clinical at the same time. The acting performances were all great as well. I think Fionn Whitehead gave the best performance, but I was also pleasantly surprised with Harry Styles' performance. He could be a big actor if he wants to, he definitely has talent. Dunkirk felt exactly long (or short) enough and I feel that it would have been to exhausting had it been a 160 minutes movie.
It was also surprisingly emotional. I don't get emotional when watching movies a lot, but there are a couple scenes in this movie that really got me, including the ending, which was perfect imo. So yeah, of course everyone's entitled to their own opinions and my opinion won't change other people's opinions, but I don't understand how you can find this movie boring or 'lifeless'. It's everything I wanted and then some. I don't know exactly where I'd rank it but it's at least in the top 3 best Nolan movies and a 10/10 for me.
OP: So I just watched Dunkirk. I'll edit this post and write a short review when I get home, but my overall opinion is that it's incredible, haunting and surprisingly emotional. I don't understand how JeremyJahns could think this movie was boring and that he didn't care about the characters.
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Post by charzhino on Aug 2, 2017 14:25:52 GMT
So I just watched Dunkirk. I'll edit this post and write a short review when I get home, but my overall opinion is that it's incredible, haunting and surprisingly emotional. I don't understand how JeremyJahns could think this movie was boring and that he didn't care about the characters. Because they had no character to them. They were inert. |
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Post by politicidal on Aug 2, 2017 15:21:12 GMT
So I just watched Dunkirk. I'll edit this post and write a short review when I get home, but my overall opinion is that it's incredible, haunting and surprisingly emotional. I don't understand how JeremyJahns could think this movie was boring and that he didn't care about the characters. I've noticed lately that he's been bucking the trend for reviewing certain movies. |
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Post by sdrew13163 on Aug 2, 2017 16:50:01 GMT
So I just watched Dunkirk. I'll edit this post and write a short review when I get home, but my overall opinion is that it's incredible, haunting and surprisingly emotional. I don't understand how JeremyJahns could think this movie was boring and that he didn't care about the characters. I've noticed lately that he's been bucking the trend for reviewing certain movies. Did you ever end up seeing it politicidal? |
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Post by politicidal on Aug 2, 2017 18:22:02 GMT
I've noticed lately that he's been bucking the trend for reviewing certain movies. Did you ever end up seeing it politicidal? Not yet unfortunately, it'll be out for a while longer though where I'm at. |
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Post by kevin on Aug 2, 2017 19:53:47 GMT
A question for everyone, where would you place Dunkirk in your ranking of Nolan's movies?
I still have to think about it, but it's at least top 3 for me.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Aug 2, 2017 20:28:37 GMT
A question for everyone, where would you place Dunkirk in your ranking of Nolan's movies? I still have to think about it, but it's at least top 3 for me. My rankings as of now are: 1. The Dark Knight 2. Memento 3. The Dark Knight Rises 4. Dunkirk 5. Batman Begins 6. The Prestige 7. Inception 8. Interstellar 9. Insomnia I've still yet to see Following all the way through. I really like every movie of his. I consider those first five to be great. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 23:37:48 GMT
I saw Dunkirk yesterday. I found it to be very good, very well crafted.
I'm OK with films that forego dialog. Eventually I got into the swing of 'disconnected' storylines, etc. I will say, at first? I kept waiting to get an idea 'what was the plot going to be?', etc. It took me between a half hour, 45 minutes before I fully realized there wasn't going to be one, not really. That was a bit distracting, for me. Now that I know where the film was heading, the second viewing may be more rewarding.
I liked the way two of the situations played out, even though there was tragedy in both. The other scenario, with the guys on the beached cruiser, never really came to life for me.
It's a beautiful film, well shot, well sounded. The acting was solid.
And as an FYI, because i know how these threads can go? I'm neither a fanboy of Nolans or a hater. I think he's a solid film maker. This is a good film, in some ways great, but? It did miss for me in a few ways. I am looking forward to seeing it again, but I'll probably wait until cable/internet release.
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Post by charzhino on Aug 3, 2017 10:19:20 GMT
Interstellar, TDK and The Prestige are still his best imo. All have very brilliant leads with fully fleshed out characterisations and a riveting story - mainly the reason I didnt like Dunkirk as much.
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Post by kevin on Aug 4, 2017 5:54:31 GMT
Am I the only one that really liked the lack of characterization/exposition in this movie? I actually think that's one of the movies' strongest points. It's a movie about the event and not about specific people. I understand that this doesn't matter as long as you don't actually care about the characters, but I really cared about them. What is your take on this?
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Post by Nora on Aug 4, 2017 16:11:00 GMT
Am I the only one that really liked the lack of characterization/exposition in this movie? I actually think that's one of the movies' strongest points. It's a movie about the event and not about specific people. I understand that this doesn't matter as long as you don't actually care about the characters, but I really cared about them. What is your take on this? no, certainly not, since the critics as well as the audience give it such a high rating everywhere. It must be me and people like me that are in minority / the odd ones out.
I did care about Mark Rylances character (how could I not, with his face and acting). But unlike ANY other war movie I have ever seen, this one did nothing to me emotionally. I was not scared for the characters I was not emotionally impacted by anyones death or the dire situation they were in, it just had zero effect on me. And I (*admits with embarrassment) can tear up while watching toilet paper commercials if they put cute enough puppies in it). And I think it had a lot to do with the character exposition. |
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Post by kevin on Aug 5, 2017 5:57:27 GMT
I think the most interesting feedback this movie is getting is about the emotions.
From what I've heard people either really got emotional during the movie or thought the movie was one of the most emotionless movies ever.
I for one really got emotional during the final moments of the movie and also once halfway the movie. It's actually one of the biggest emotional reactions
I ever had watching a movie and I'm usually not that an emotional person when I watch movies. It really makes it interesting to hear about people who didn't feel anything about the story and characters and their experience. A friend of mine also watched it and he really liked it, but he didn't really feel anything. He said he liked it, because of the tension and the spectacle. And I also love the movie for that, but the emotional weight of the movie was also really important to me.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Aug 5, 2017 6:35:39 GMT
I think the most interesting feedback this movie is getting is about the emotions. From what I've heard people either really got emotional during the movie or thought the movie was one of the most emotionless movies ever. I for one really got emotional during the final moments of the movie and also once halfway the movie. It's actually one of the biggest emotional reactions I ever had watching a movie and I'm usually not that an emotional person when I watch movies. It really makes it interesting to hear about people who didn't feel anything about the story and characters and their experience. A friend of mine also watched it and he really liked it, but he didn't really feel anything. He said he liked it, because of the tension and the spectacle. And I also love the movie for that, but the emotional weight of the movie was also really important to me. I agree. The movie is not for everyone for that reason, but I loved the old fashioned approach. Nolan just portrayed an event and the characters just so happened to be there. I can see how that's a turn-off for some, but I really liked it. It made the effects and carnage feel more widespread. I felt a lot with the death of George and the interaction that followed with Peter and Cillian Murphy's character. That's when the emotion hit me. I felt bad for everyone involved. |
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Post by Peter B. Parker on Aug 5, 2017 15:49:47 GMT
Haven't seen it yet, because I just got back from vacation, but I will see it (and Apes, Valerian, Cars 3, and Dark Tower) soon.
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Post by charzhino on Aug 5, 2017 20:02:46 GMT
Ive changed my mind. I watched it for a 2nd time and I think its very good. The story was much more clearer to me and easier to follow since I knew what to expect in terms of the overlapping stories of the 3 journeys. The big problem I had after the 1st time seeing it was the lack of character but I agree with one of the posters above, it didn't need it. The last thing I would want is for this to be dragged out to 2 hours 20 minutes, so I applaud Nolans streamline approach. I will rate this 8.5/10. I originally gave it 7/10. I still think the main guy on the beach would have had a little more personality.
The only question thats still bugging me - and minor spoilers -
We see that there are 3 RAF spitfires at the beginning. One is Tom Hardy, the other that blonde haired guy. Is Cillian Murphy the 3rd one since when hes picked up hes in the middle of the sea on a piece of wreckage? But then when he gets picked up he mentions something about U boats. Anyone clarify?
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Post by kevin on Aug 10, 2017 19:01:39 GMT
Awards Circuit currently (last update was on August 6, 2017) predicts Dunkirk to get nominated for 9 Oscars:
Best Picture
Best Director
Best Original Screenplay
Best Production Design
Best Cinematography
Best Film Editing
Best Sound Mixing
Best Sound Editing
Best Original Score
It's currently #7 on their list for best Visual Effects, but I think there's a big chance it will also be nominated there.
It's by far the movie with the best visuals I've seen all year and Awards Circuit now has Spider-Man: Homecoming & Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 as possible nominees.
I haven't seen Spider-Man yet, but Guardians 2 had great visuals. However, I think there's almost no chance the Academy will nominate Guardians or Spider-Man, let alone both of them, over Dunkirk because superhero movies simply aren't really the Academy's thing and Dunkirk is a far more Academy-friendly movie. Anyways, I think it's possible for Dunkirk to get nominated for most of the categories above if it's promoted well during the Oscar season. There are still a lot of movies coming out that could also be serious contenders in these categories, but we'll see. Realistically, how many Oscars do you think Dunkirk could get nominated for?
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Post by sdrew13163 on Aug 10, 2017 20:05:00 GMT
Awards Circuit currently (last update was on August 6, 2017) predicts Dunkirk to get nominated for 9 Oscars: Best Picture Best Director Best Original Screenplay Best Production Design Best Cinematography Best Film Editing Best Sound Mixing Best Sound Editing Best Original Score It's currently #7 on their list for best Visual Effects, but I think there's a big chance it will also be nominated there. It's by far the movie with the best visuals I've seen all year and Awards Circuit now has Spider-Man: Homecoming & Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 as possible nominees. I haven't seen Spider-Man yet, but Guardians 2 had great visuals. However, I think there's almost no chance the Academy will nominate Guardians or Spider-Man, let alone both of them, over Dunkirk because superhero movies simply aren't really the Academy's thing and Dunkirk is a far more Academy-friendly movie. Anyways, I think it's possible for Dunkirk to get nominated for most of the categories above if it's promoted well during the Oscar season. There are still a lot of movies coming out that could also be serious contenders in these categories, but we'll see. Realistically, how many Oscars do you think Dunkirk could get nominated for? I think it'll get nominated for all of those except Best Original Screenplay. It should win Best Sound Mixing, Best Sound Editing, Best Director, and Best Score; that's if we're going off of The Academy's track record. If it were up to me, I would also throw Best Picture and Best Cinematography in as a win (as of now). I see no way that it isn't at least nominated for Best Picture, but I also see almost no way it wins Best Picture. I don't care for The Academy at all, but I would love to see Nolan get the recognition he deserves in the biggest venue possible. |
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Post by Nora on Aug 10, 2017 21:47:17 GMT
Awards Circuit currently (last update was on August 6, 2017) predicts Dunkirk to get nominated for 9 Oscars: Best Picture Best Director Best Original Screenplay Best Production Design Best Cinematography Best Film Editing Best Sound Mixing Best Sound Editing Best Original Score Realistically, how many Oscars do you think Dunkirk could get nominated for? yeah its early and the competition right now is still poor, but most of those above have a really good chance to get the noms. my current prediction would be all of the listed above except production and screenplay, but that may be wishful thinking (since I really didn't like the "screenplay" of Dunkirk. Or Dunkirk as a movie at all…) |
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Post by ShadowSouL on Aug 22, 2017 4:13:02 GMT
I saw this over the weekend unintentionally because of a mix-up, and I found it to be compelling and thrilling (not that I didn't expect it to be -- war movies are just not what I think about in terms of escapist entertainment).
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