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Post by captainbryce on Jul 20, 2017 2:28:39 GMT
A just and loving god wouldn't care about faith. Rewarding those that suck upto the boss is a very human flaw. No but a petty and childish narcissist would need that type of widespread attention and approval.
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Post by gadreel on Jul 20, 2017 2:50:34 GMT
You are simply cutting a number of different passages out of different books and comparing them out of context to answer a single question, the apparent paradoxes you are seeing are most likely resolved by examining the rationale of the source. You're entitled to your opinion about that. And sorry but I will as you any question I like if it it pertinent, which it is. Sorry but, I don't see why you feel it's necessary to become confrontational about this. I didn't challenge your ability to ask me questions. I just questioned why you are asking me something you already know the answer to. You asked me if I knew what the bible was, when you already know that I do. My point is that you are doing the Atheist troll thing, if you expect us to believe that your recent conversion is both genuine and well reasoned, you would do well to not post in a manner that could confuse you with the likes of Angry Ducat or Blade. First of all, I'm not particularly interested in "convincing" anyone of anything. Whether you BELIEVE I am an atheist or not is of zero concern to me. My motivation does not rest on other people believing I am what I say. Had you reasoned this out before asking me, you might have figured out that I've considered all of these points of view already. I know that their is context to every passage, and I've spent many hours considering each of the contextual interpretations. It's not that I'm missing your point, it's that you are missing mine! The question being asked relates to a central tenet of Christian doctrine that is disputed INSIDE THE CHURCH, the answer to which is different from one denomination to the other. And they are all using the same source material (the bible) to arrive at different conclusions. If all of these different Christian groups were examining the passages in context, and they were all cohesive to the point where the answer was simple, then this wouldn't be a question in the first place. Obviously, that is NOT the case, and that is the point that I am making. My response was a humorous way of pointing out exactly why the bible is NOT the cohesive, unified document so many Christians claim it to be (despite the evidence to the contrary). That you choose to ignore such inconsistencies (both in the bible and in the various competing Christian theologies) and excuse them away as being the result of interpreting "out of context" isn't me trolling you. It's the same argument that every Christian denomination uses to point out how they are the "true Christians", and how everyone else is wrong! Secondly, if you are angry or upset with me because I am no longer a Christian, then I'm sorry but I don't know what to tell you. I gave it a chance for over 30 years (plenty enough time to evaluate the validity of a way of life that one should live by), and then I woke up. I've read the bible, I developed strong feelings about it, I used many apologetics to defend it's legitimacy, I tried to spin certain parts of it to make it mean something other than what it does (day-age creationism, nothing against homosexuality, hell not really being hell, etc). I pretended that other parts of it made sense (knowing deep down that it didn't), and I convinced myself that prayer would help me understand it more and more (because I wanted it to be true). Then I realized that I was kidding myself and delusional (just like every other theist). I came to the realization that it's all man-made bullsh*t, entirely unscientific, inconsistent with itself, and most importantly that many of the teachings are wholly immoral under the guise of some perfect diving morality. It is what, it is! And by the way, a well reasoned argument doesn't hinge on tone, nor the credibility of the one making the argument. Logic stands on it's own, and isn't dependent on you believing that I'm authentic. Either way, if you choose to believe that this is not a "genuine" belief of mine now, or that my past interpretation was not genuine then, that's fine. I have nothing to gain by lying to you. But I also have nothing to gain by going out of my way to ensure you believe I'm telling the truth either. I've always liked you as a poster, but I have no need for you to continue to like me. If I'm not willing to invest any time convincing my own mother that I no longer believe in the bible (and I'm not for the record), then I have zero need to convince you. Frankly, it's just not that important to me and it doesn't change anything either way. If you want to have a serious discussion about my beliefs now (or then), then just ask me and I'm always happy to do it. But don't whine about me trolling you simply because you have strong feelings about something that I now disagree with. Trolling is usually light and humorous, and it's a natural expectation of topics that nobody can agree on (religion, politics, etc). And most people here to it to some extent or another (atheist and theist alike). It isn't a new development! I've always trolled people like Erjen, and Ada, and the people you just mentioned. I never once saw you complaining about that! Now I happen to be trolling (not YOU, but someone else's post that you agree with), and all of a sudden you have a problem with me. I suggest you reconsider your own position and objectivity here. I think you are shocked (and perhaps) upset that I'm not a Christian anymore, and are trying to find a way to cope with that reality because I've never really given a reason for why that is the case (until now). But ultimately, I'm still the same person. I'm still honest, I'm still open minded, I'm still very analytical, I still value logic over emotion, and I'm still overall a good guy! Bro, if you think that is confrontational I am not sure what to say. The rest of your post is based on the premise that I am angry with you or I need to feel convinced by you. I may way worded what I said poorly, but neither of those things are true. You are a clever guy and able to think for yourself, i see in this post a denial of that potential and I am simply commenting in the hopes that you are not going down the path of trolldom. Honestly I have not noticed you trolling before, probably due to the larger volume of traffic on the old site. Just to be clear I am not shocked nor upset that you have renounced your Christianity, I don't really care what you believe, only that you don't hurt others and your belief allows you to grow.
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Post by gadreel on Jul 20, 2017 2:53:18 GMT
A just and loving god wouldn't care about faith. Rewarding those that suck upto the boss is a very human flaw. Yup, in a lot of ways the admonition to unwavering faith is a result of men wanting to control other men. Having said that, wanting to explore the spiritual I think must require some faith that there is something to tap into (if you will) that you can explore. Hard to explain, but take Yoga, I had to have faith that Yoga would help before I paid money to go to classes.
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Post by THawk on Jul 20, 2017 12:35:16 GMT
I do not know the definitive answer.
However, when conservatives tackle the question, it is usually a very firm, very self-assured one-dimensional answer that ignores the complexities of the world.
If it is faith alone, does that mean the millions of people who have died as babies throughout human history are in hell now?
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Post by johnblutarsky on Jul 20, 2017 15:21:23 GMT
Are they some kind of variant on Bloody Marys? That's my guess. I don't like tomato juice, so I wouldn't order/make one, but I know a lot of people who would.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jul 20, 2017 16:26:55 GMT
Do whatever you want.
As long as you go to confession and say some prayers sometime before you die you're in.
Heaven is for ETERNITY. How petty and stupid would it be for God to keep someone out of Heaven for Eternity because of something they did in one of these brief lifespans.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jul 20, 2017 16:28:32 GMT
A just and loving god wouldn't care about faith. Rewarding those that suck upto the boss is a very human flaw. No but a petty and childish narcissist would need that type of widespread attention and approval. The Christian version of God is a vindictive overly sensitive immature being who holds grudges forever. He needs to pull His head out of His ass.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 20, 2017 18:00:46 GMT
No but a petty and childish narcissist would need that type of widespread attention and approval. The Christian version of God is a vindictive overly sensitive immature being who holds grudges forever. He needs to pull His head out of His ass.
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Post by maya55555 on Jul 20, 2017 18:10:07 GMT
Try this:
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jul 20, 2017 20:30:37 GMT
The Christian version of God is a vindictive overly sensitive immature being who holds grudges forever. He needs to pull His head out of His ass. Oh Gods... Did I cross the line? Will I pay for eternity?
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 20, 2017 21:43:55 GMT
Oh Gods... Did I cross the line? Will I pay for eternity? It's the actor who portrayed "God" from the Ridley Scott film Exodus: Gods and Kings.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jul 20, 2017 22:16:28 GMT
A just and loving god wouldn't care about faith. That's rather presumptuous of you. It assumes that you know what it means to be loving and just in the first place, and that you know the value of faith. Some might argue that the fact that he cares about faith is the proof that God is loving and just. I mean, I personally wouldn't argue that, but I could certainly see how others might. Just because you don't see the value of faith doesn't mean it is not valuable in some just way. Rewarding those that suck upto the boss is a very human flaw. Again, some might argue that this is not a flaw, but rather a STRENGTH, and a necessity to achieve a greater good. You don't know! If God did indeed create all, then he created love and justice. IF god runs himself by dome other form of love and justice, how can we possibly know whether anything we do is right in his eyes? Well, in human terms merit is the best system. That is why we use it in The West.
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Post by drystyx on Jul 20, 2017 22:27:37 GMT
This is the correct procedure to enter Heaven if you're a Christian.
1. Jump to the left
2. Step to the right (4 times)
3. Put your hands on your hips.
4. Bring knees in tight.
5. Do pelvic thrust.
6. Swivel your hips.
7. End by jumping back and forth, waving hands to beat
8. Finally, fall to ground.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 21, 2017 1:10:30 GMT
That's rather presumptuous of you. It assumes that you know what it means to be loving and just in the first place, and that you know the value of faith. Some might argue that the fact that he cares about faith is the proof that God is loving and just. I mean, I personally wouldn't argue that, but I could certainly see how others might. Just because you don't see the value of faith doesn't mean it is not valuable in some just way. Again, some might argue that this is not a flaw, but rather a STRENGTH, and a necessity to achieve a greater good. You don't know! If God did indeed create all, then he created love and justice. IF god runs himself by dome other form of love and justice, how can we possibly know whether anything we do is right in his eyes? Well, in human terms merit is the best system. That is why we use it in The West. What "west" are you living in? Because West Virginia, West Philadelphia, and West Hollywood (and the rest of the west that I live) Donald Trump was elected as President! Obviously, "merit" is not something many voters here give a sh*t about. Power, charisma, and money are what we live by. Merit is completely optional, and it has been in every culture throughout the entirety of human history!
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Post by thorshairspray on Jul 21, 2017 1:21:07 GMT
If God did indeed create all, then he created love and justice. IF god runs himself by dome other form of love and justice, how can we possibly know whether anything we do is right in his eyes? Well, in human terms merit is the best system. That is why we use it in The West. What "west" are you living in? Because West Virginia, West Philadelphia, and West Hollywood (and the rest of the west that I live) Donald Trump was elected as President! Obviously, "merit" is not something many voters here give a sh*t about. Power, charisma, and money are what we live by. Merit is completely optional, and it has been in every culture throughout the entirety of human history! [urlhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world[/url] That thing that gave us democracy, liberalism, feminism, freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of association, legal equality and trial by jury. Innocence until proven guilty and basically everything good that exists in the World.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 21, 2017 1:25:42 GMT
That thing that gave us democracy, liberalism, feminism, freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of association, legal equality and trial by jury. Innocence until proven guilty and basically everything good that exists in the World. It was a rhetorical question (that I now see when straight over your head).
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jul 21, 2017 5:26:25 GMT
Oh Gods... Did I cross the line? Will I pay for eternity? It's the actor who portrayed "God" from the Ridley Scott film Exodus: Gods and Kings. Well, I guess he's doing a good job portraying a dour, humorless douche-bag.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 21, 2017 11:13:21 GMT
It's the actor who portrayed "God" from the Ridley Scott film Exodus: Gods and Kings. Well, I guess he's doing a good job portraying a dour, humorless douche-bag. The movie was a critical and commercial failure.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jul 21, 2017 15:00:15 GMT
Wondering what you guys think. If I was a believer I would use the front. However I understand many Catholic priests prefer to quietly slip into the back entrance.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jul 21, 2017 17:03:50 GMT
That thing that gave us democracy, liberalism, feminism, freedom of expression, freedom of religion, freedom of the press, freedom of association, legal equality and trial by jury. Innocence until proven guilty and basically everything good that exists in the World. It was a rhetorical question (that I now see when straight over your head). I'm not American..........
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