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Post by captainbryce on Jul 22, 2017 19:53:12 GMT
Be that as it may, I don't think that people should be honored in death when the result of their death is suicide, an inherently dishonorable way to die! No one would be saying Rest In Peace to someone like Osama Bin Laden (or any mass murderer). So why should we honor suicide "choosers" (and notice how I don't call them "victims"). Who are you to pass judgement on why this man took his own life? There is no knowing what kind of pain he was in. Suicide is not inherently dishonorable. For some poor souls it is the only way out of misery. Have a little empathy; suicide is a huge 'choice' to make, and often with very good reason. I know nothing of the man or his music, but I know that he didn't do this casually. His death is sad, period. Sorry, but you are just flat out wrong! Suicide is NEVER the answer, and any number of reputable psychologists would disagree with you. There are always alternatives to suicide, and all it takes sometimes is for the person to have the courage to seek help. I agree that his death is sad, but not for the reasons you do. The reason his death is sad is because he left behind SIX children, who now have to grow up without a father, and live with the pain of knowing he took his own life. That was selfish and dishonorable because all he did was take the easiest way out to escape his pain by putting it on to everyone else who cared about him. I have no empathy for someone who does that. I would have had empathy for him had he sought treatment instead. Rather I have pity for his family. Suicide is not the answer to your situation |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jul 22, 2017 20:43:53 GMT
Who are you to pass judgement on why this man took his own life? There is no knowing what kind of pain he was in. Suicide is not inherently dishonorable. For some poor souls it is the only way out of misery. Have a little empathy; suicide is a huge 'choice' to make, and often with very good reason. I know nothing of the man or his music, but I know that he didn't do this casually. His death is sad, period. Sorry, but you are just flat out wrong! Suicide is NEVER the answer, and any number of reputable psychologists would disagree with you. There are always alternatives to suicide, and all it takes sometimes is for the person to have the courage to seek help. I agree that his death is sad, but not for the reasons you do. The reason his death is sad is because he left behind SIX children, who now have to grow up without a father, and live with the pain of knowing he took his own life. That was selfish and dishonorable because all he did was take the easiest way out to escape his pain by putting it on to everyone else who cared about him. I have no empathy for someone who does that. I would have had empathy for him had he sought treatment instead. Rather I have pity for his family. Suicide is not the answer to your situation Sorry, but you are flat out wrong! I have had family members, three on my mother's side, who took their own lives because their families would not acknowledge their pain from having been molested by a parent. I had empathy for them, not their immediate families that were the cause of the abuse and the deniers of such abuse. Clearly no one you know has ever confided a deep pain to you. Hopefully, no one will ever try since you, too, would be a denier. And yes, they did seek treatment - my one cousin married, had children, became a therapist herself and still ultimately ate a bullet. Perhaps this musician, like Robin Williams, was told he had a degenerative disease and he took his own life before the disease progressed. I am a cancer survivor; should my cancer return and it is determined that I will have no meaningful recovery, I will take my own life rather than suffer through the horrors of treatment again. My friends all know this, they all 'get it' and some even agree that they might do the same thing, given certain circumstances. Why do you think people should suffer endlessly because their death will hurt their family? What about the person who is suffering? Why are their needs less important than their family's needs? What if he had sought treatment and it didn't work? Ultimately, there is no right or wrong in this; every circumstance is different. Just don't judge unless you have intimate knowledge of the circumstances. Unless you do, confine yourself to comments like "how sad" or "what can I do to help his family?" instead of dismissing the deceased as the problem.
"There are always alternatives to suicide"... says you. Maybe the alternative is worse than suicide - there are things worse than death. |
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RedRuth1966
Sophomore
@redruth1966
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Post by RedRuth1966 on Jul 22, 2017 22:30:01 GMT
Sorry, but you are just flat out wrong! Suicide is NEVER the answer, and any number of reputable psychologists would disagree with you. There are always alternatives to suicide, and all it takes sometimes is for the person to have the courage to seek help. I agree that his death is sad, but not for the reasons you do. The reason his death is sad is because he left behind SIX children, who now have to grow up without a father, and live with the pain of knowing he took his own life. That was selfish and dishonorable because all he did was take the easiest way out to escape his pain by putting it on to everyone else who cared about him. I have no empathy for someone who does that. I would have had empathy for him had he sought treatment instead. Rather I have pity for his family. Suicide is not the answer to your situation What about the person who is suffering? Why are their needs less important than their family's needs? I don't want to answer for Bryce but in this case his family's needs are more important than his, he has 6 children. That's why people call him out for taking the cowards way out. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jul 23, 2017 1:35:11 GMT
What about the person who is suffering? Why are their needs less important than their family's needs? I don't want to answer for Bryce but in this case his family's needs are more important than his, he has 6 children. That's why people call him out for taking the cowards way out. Sorry, RedRuth, but I still disagree; every circumstance is different. You are aware that some people's families assist in their suicides, not wanting their loved one to suffer any more. I will say again, I know nothing of this man's life or music or circumstance - perhaps he was a coward. But not all who commit suicide are cowards. I just don't accept blanket generalized statements without knowing the details. I know what my cousin went through. She fought a hard battle, but in the end she just couldn't stand the pain of her family calling her a liar, denying what hideous things were done to her by her own father and denied by her mother. She just wanted the pain to stop. And she made a brutal statement by her method of death, a gunshot to the head - not the usual way for a woman to kill herself. Her brother and another cousin both committed suicide - the family had fostered abuse for several generations. This is MY FAMILY I am talking about. I was there. |
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 23, 2017 12:48:16 GMT
Sorry, but you are flat out wrong! I have had family members, three on my mother's side, who took their own lives because their families would not acknowledge their pain from having been molested by a parentI had empathy for them, not their immediate families that were the cause of the abuse and the deniers of such abuse; Clearly no one you know has ever confided a deep pain to you. Hopefully, no one will ever try since you, too, would be a denier. And yes, they did seek treatment - my one cousin married, had children, became a therapist herself and still ultimately ate a bullet. Perhaps this musician, like Robin Williams, was told he had a degenerative disease and he took his own life before the disease progressed. I am a cancer survivor; should my cancer return and it is determined that I will have no meaningful recovery, I will take my own life rather than suffer through the horrors of treatment again. My friends all know this, they all 'get it' and some even agree that they might do the same thing, given certain circumstances. Why do you think people should suffer endlessly because their death will hurt their family? What about the person who is suffering? Why are their needs less important than their family's needs? What if he had sought treatment and it didn't work? Ultimately, there is no right or wrong in this; every circumstance is different. Just don't judge unless you have intimate knowledge of the circumstances. Unless you do, confine yourself to comments like "how sad" or "what can I do to help his family?" instead of dismissing the deceased as the problem.
"There are always alternatives to suicide"... says you. Maybe the alternative is worse than suicide - there are things worse than death. Nope, not convincing! Not even in the slightest. You assume too much about me. You don't know anything about me, so for you to compare me to your despicable family members is ridiculous. I have never "denied" anyone's pain before. Since I don't know the details of your cousin's situation, I can't comment on it other than to say that there are things about her that you may not have known. Unless she confided to you about everything, you can only speculate. But it wouldn't surprise me if she committed suicide after talking to someone like you who is basically saying that suicide is a legitimate answer. For all I know, YOU killed your cousin (assuming you even communicated with her about her problems). You are also assuming too much about Chester Bennington AND Robin Williams. There has been nothing reported about either of them being diagnosed with a degenerative disease. Robin Williams (who I actually met before) suffered from long term, clinical depression, and Chester Bennington apparently also suffered from it stemming from child sex abuse, and no doubt enhanced by his drug and alcohol abuse. A person suffering from cancer is completely different because that is a physical, painful, and often terminal illness for which there is no cure. People can be cured from depression; but seeking refuge in alcohol and drugs don't help. If anything they make the problems worse (as evidenced by Bennington's suicide). I would have more sympathy for a person who is actually suffering from physical pain and faced with an incurable, or painful recovery. And since you just admitted that your friends and family would already be aware of this and okay with it, then it is excusable. This guy hung himself in a closet without ever including anyone else in his plan; he didn't even leave a suicide note! So that is not remotely the same thing. In any case, this guy had SIX children! I don't care how much you think you are suffering emotionally, how much do you think 6 kids are going to suffer knowing that their father killed himself? What he should have done was think about them. I don't think people should suffer endlessly. I think they should SEEK HELP with trained therapists or psychiatric treatment. Have you heard of that thing called the suicide hotline? You ask a lot of "what if", hypothetical questions "what if he had cancer", "what if he did seek treatment", "what if it didn't work", etc, etc. We don't know that he had cancer or sought treatment. In fact, there is no evidence that he did, therefore we can safely assume that he did not. IF any of those things were true, then that would change my perspective. But under the assumption they are not true (for which we have no reason to believe they are), then yeah I judge that as a cowardly, selfish act. Every circumstance might be different, but in THIS circumstance there were things he should have done OTHER than hanging himself. |
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Post by cupcakes on Jul 23, 2017 13:02:36 GMT
tpfkar As long as they didn't physically harm anybody else on the way out, a little sadness, compassion, and honor for whatever their accomplishments were. Hard to judge the crushing agony that would lead someone to do that.
these wounds they will not heal |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jul 23, 2017 21:17:46 GMT
Sorry, but you are flat out wrong! I have had family members, three on my mother's side, who took their own lives because their families would not acknowledge their pain from having been molested by a parentI had empathy for them, not their immediate families that were the cause of the abuse and the deniers of such abuse; Clearly no one you know has ever confided a deep pain to you. Hopefully, no one will ever try since you, too, would be a denier. And yes, they did seek treatment - my one cousin married, had children, became a therapist herself and still ultimately ate a bullet. Perhaps this musician, like Robin Williams, was told he had a degenerative disease and he took his own life before the disease progressed. I am a cancer survivor; should my cancer return and it is determined that I will have no meaningful recovery, I will take my own life rather than suffer through the horrors of treatment again. My friends all know this, they all 'get it' and some even agree that they might do the same thing, given certain circumstances. Why do you think people should suffer endlessly because their death will hurt their family? What about the person who is suffering? Why are their needs less important than their family's needs? What if he had sought treatment and it didn't work? Ultimately, there is no right or wrong in this; every circumstance is different. Just don't judge unless you have intimate knowledge of the circumstances. Unless you do, confine yourself to comments like "how sad" or "what can I do to help his family?" instead of dismissing the deceased as the problem.
"There are always alternatives to suicide"... says you. Maybe the alternative is worse than suicide - there are things worse than death. Nope, not convincing! Not even in the slightest. You assume too much about me. You don't know anything about me, so for you to compare me to your despicable family members is ridiculous. I have never "denied" anyone's pain before. Since I don't know the details of your cousin's situation, I can't comment on it other than to say that there are things about her that you may not have known. Unless she confided to you about everything, you can only speculate. But it wouldn't surprise me if she committed suicide after talking to someone like you who is basically saying that suicide is a legitimate answer. For all I know, YOU killed your cousin (assuming you even communicated with her about her problems). You are also assuming too much about Chester Bennington AND Robin Williams. There has been nothing reported about either of them being diagnosed with a degenerative disease. Robin Williams (who I actually met before) suffered from long term, clinical depression, and Chester Bennington apparently also suffered from it stemming from child sex abuse, and no doubt enhanced by his drug and alcohol abuse. A person suffering from cancer is completely different because that is a physical, painful, and often terminal illness for which there is no cure. People can be cured from depression; but seeking refuge in alcohol and drugs don't help. If anything they make the problems worse (as evidenced by Bennington's suicide). I would have more sympathy for a person who is actually suffering from physical pain and faced with an incurable, or painful recovery. And since you just admitted that your friends and family would already be aware of this and okay with it, then it is excusable. This guy hung himself in a closet without ever including anyone else in his plan; he didn't even leave a suicide note! So that is not remotely the same thing. In any case, this guy had SIX children! I don't care how much you think you are suffering emotionally, how much do you think 6 kids are going to suffer knowing that their father killed himself? What he should have done was think about them. I don't think people should suffer endlessly. I think they should SEEK HELP with trained therapists or psychiatric treatment. Have you heard of that thing called the suicide hotline? You ask a lot of "what if", hypothetical questions "what if he had cancer", "what if he did seek treatment", "what if it didn't work", etc, etc. We don't know that he had cancer or sought treatment. In fact, there is no evidence that he did, therefore we can safely assume that he did not. IF any of those things were true, then that would change my perspective. But under the assumption they are not true (for which we have no reason to believe they are), then yeah I judge that as a cowardly, selfish act. Every circumstance might be different, but in THIS circumstance there were things he should have done OTHER than hanging himself. From the real IMDb bio of Robin Williams: A statement was released by his wife Susan Schneider after his death in which she said that Robin's sobriety was intact and that he was brave as he struggled with his own battles of depression, anxiety as well as early stages of Parkinson's Disease, which he was not yet ready to share publicly. I didn't compare you to my family members, and be careful, your "Christian" compassion is showing. Ooops, there's that "Christian" compassion again, telling me, whom you know nothing about, that I killed my cousin. And onto "Ignore" you go... |
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Post by phludowin on Jul 23, 2017 21:46:27 GMT
Don't you just love it when people are being judgmental about suicide?
Especially when they never met the people in question; probably never had to deal with depression themselves, but still feel qualified to call those who commit suicide "cowards".
Sometimes, ignorance is bliss and leads to arrogance.
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islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
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Post by islandmur on Jul 23, 2017 21:53:34 GMT
I can't believe what i'm reading.
He shouldn't have killed himself because he had 6 children?
I'm sorry but if the guy's depression was that bad, how the heck do you think the children were? happy? So he should have stayed and made the whole household miserable for how long?
So he killed himself and yes now they are sad... but that pain will ease on as time goes by.
I don't advocate suicide by the way. I just had a friend last month who shot himself (he had 3 kids). but I don't think saying he should have stayed alive and depressed for the kids is a solution. Because depressed people affect their families for the worst.
You sit there day in and day out wondering what you can do to make someone snap out of it and nothing you do works children become depressed themselves thinking daddy or mommy doesn't love them or that it is their fault.
No don't say he should have not done it because of the children.
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 23, 2017 23:27:32 GMT
I didn't compare you to my family members, Clearly you did! and be careful, your "Christian" compassion is showing. Ooops, there's that "Christian" compassion again, YOU decided that I was a "Christian" in the first place -- I'm not. I happen to be an atheist who has his priorities in the right place. I have compassion for the 6 children who this loser selfishly abandoned. telling me, whom you know nothing about, that I killed my cousin. Yeah, except I didn't didn't actually "tell you" that. But merely that I wouldn't be surprised if she acted based on your irresponsible and ignorant advice. And onto "Ignore" you go... You will be sorely missed!  |
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 23, 2017 23:48:04 GMT
Don't you just love it when people are being judgmental about suicide? Especially when they never met the people in question; probably never had to deal with depression themselves, but still feel qualified to call those who commit suicide "cowards". Sometimes, ignorance is bliss and leads to arrogance. It is incumbent on us as responsible citizens to judge what is right and wrong. That's how successful societies function. As a living person who both respects life and the expert opinions of psychologists with respect to depression and suicide, yes I do consider myself "qualified". For the record, I have gone through depression before, so the only ignorance here to speak of would be yours and the erroneous presumptions you are leaning on. Bottom line, telling other people (especially people who are depressed) that suicide is the answer is ignorant and deplorable. That type of advice would make you uniquely unqualified to offer worthwhile advice in these matters. |
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Post by Marv on Jul 25, 2017 14:14:51 GMT
The lead singer of Linkin Park has hanged himself. And....he should get some special condolences because he was famous, or we should morn him specifically because he made good music? What are you getting at by singling out his death over any else's? He he may have been a good musician, but he was a terrible person to do what he did. And there are plenty more tragic things of concern than someone who takes the cowardly way out. Do you go to funerals for people you hate just to bash the corpse? Perhaps talk about how big a jerk they were to their family and friends? No, right? So why do you always reply to these celebrity RIP threads with this negative attitude? Can't you just let a few online people go 'rip' and 'sad' without getting your 2 cents in? We get it...you don't appreciate their lives more than anyone else's. Good for you! Now let other people express their condolences. |
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Post by captainbryce on Jul 25, 2017 15:04:39 GMT
Do you go to funerals for people you hate just to bash the corpse? Perhaps talk about how big a jerk they were to their family and friends? No, right? I don't go to funerals of people I know at all. The only funerals I've gone to are the ones that I participated in as a member of an Air Force Honor Guard team. People can express their condolences all thy want; I'm not stopping anyone from doing so by expressing my opinion that people should have more compassion for innocent babies that are bombed by the Syrian government, than a cowardly act by a rich, famous, privileged individual who decided to abandon 6 children. I happen to think people (like you) have some messed up priorities. Why can't you let me express my opinion? |
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Post by Marv on Jul 25, 2017 15:47:25 GMT
Bryce...
I'd have more respect for you if you'd have started another thread to discuss "celebrity deaths and societies lack of priorities" rather than piggy backing off the ones that are intended to be more consoling.
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