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Post by kuatorises on Jul 25, 2017 17:00:59 GMT
So if a spoiler is leaked a director should confirm it? I think that's his point. You can't trust any one on the creative team because: what the hell else are they supposed to do when something leaks or when the same question bombards them on social media? Of course they have to lie. That's why Hidalgo's quotes about the Plagueis questions are meaningless to me. Whoever they intend Snoke to be, or whoever they intend Rey's parents to be, they intend to reveal it through scenes in the movies and any lucky strike guesses before film revelation will of course be denied. I don't think that was his point at all. That's my point, however I think he was criticizing Abrams; whereas I don't hold it against him one bit.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 18:13:34 GMT
I think that's his point. You can't trust any one on the creative team because: what the hell else are they supposed to do when something leaks or when the same question bombards them on social media? Of course they have to lie. That's why Hidalgo's quotes about the Plagueis questions are meaningless to me. Whoever they intend Snoke to be, or whoever they intend Rey's parents to be, they intend to reveal it through scenes in the movies and any lucky strike guesses before film revelation will of course be denied. I don't think that was his point at all. That's my point, however I think he was criticizing Abrams; whereas I don't hold it against him one bit. Maybe he was criticizing Abrams and maybe he wasn't. But da grounds for criticism of Abrams stick out like a sore thumb. Abrams constantly lies through his teeth on these matters. But it simply isn't da only way to handle it. Some filmmakers (Lucas included) simply evade commenting on it. Thems will make statements like "That's a secret", "If I told you that I'd have to kill you.", "You'll have to wait and see", etc. But it's not surprising that Abrams almost always handles this issue by lying 'cuz he has no artistic integrity for the writing and storytelling craft anyway.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 25, 2017 19:06:03 GMT
I don't think that was his point at all. That's my point, however I think he was criticizing Abrams; whereas I don't hold it against him one bit. Maybe he was criticizing Abrams and maybe he wasn't. But da grounds for criticism of Abrams stick out like a sore thumb. Abrams constantly lies through his teeth on these matters. But it simply isn't da only way to handle it. Some filmmakers (Lucas included) simply evade commenting on it. Thems will make statements like "That's a secret", "If I told you that I'd have to kill you.", "You'll have to wait and see", etc. But it's not surprising that Abrams almost always handles this issue by lying 'cuz he has no artistic integrity for the writing and storytelling craft anyway. Holding it against the filmmaker for lying about a leaked spoiler is not a valid criticism. No one in their right expects a filmmaker to ruin his own film by giving away a major plot point.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 19:15:12 GMT
Maybe he was criticizing Abrams and maybe he wasn't. But da grounds for criticism of Abrams stick out like a sore thumb. Abrams constantly lies through his teeth on these matters. But it simply isn't da only way to handle it. Some filmmakers (Lucas included) simply evade commenting on it. Thems will make statements like "That's a secret", "If I told you that I'd have to kill you.", "You'll have to wait and see", etc. But it's not surprising that Abrams almost always handles this issue by lying 'cuz he has no artistic integrity for the writing and storytelling craft anyway. Holding it against the filmmaker for lying about a leaked spoiler is not a valid criticism. No one in their right expects a filmmaker to ruin his own film by giving away a major plot point. I missed da part where that's never been successfully handled before without lying...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 19:21:44 GMT
I think that's his point. You can't trust any one on the creative team because: what the hell else are they supposed to do when something leaks or when the same question bombards them on social media? Of course they have to lie. That's why Hidalgo's quotes about the Plagueis questions are meaningless to me. Whoever they intend Snoke to be, or whoever they intend Rey's parents to be, they intend to reveal it through scenes in the movies and any lucky strike guesses before film revelation will of course be denied. I don't think that was his point at all. That's my point, however I think he was criticizing Abrams; whereas I don't hold it against him one bit. You're probably right. Same truth but with a different perspective spun into it. Silly me. I was thinking it was just a legitimate point, but nah, probably more blind Abrams bashing as you suspect. I agree with the annoying creature above, though: if I were Hidalgo, Abrams or anybody working on any kind of established lore like Marvel or Star Wars, I would just say "fuck off and buy a ticket" to any and all fan questions about plot future.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 25, 2017 20:01:01 GMT
I don't think that was his point at all. That's my point, however I think he was criticizing Abrams; whereas I don't hold it against him one bit. You're probably right. Same truth but with a different perspective spun into it. Silly me. I was thinking it was just a legitimate point, but nah, probably more blind Abrams bashing as you suspect. I agree with the annoying creature above, though: if I were Hidalgo, Abrams or anybody working on any kind of established lore like Marvel or Star Wars, I would just say "fuck off and buy a ticket" to any and all fan questions about plot future.That's the thing though, they can't say that. As usual, people tend to ruin things by taking it too far. Instead of discussing what "may" happen, fans want spoilers. I don't know who in their right mind actually wants a movie spoiled for them, but there are people who do.
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Post by Nightman on Jul 25, 2017 21:05:27 GMT
Instead of discussing what "may" happen, fans want spoilers. I don't know who in their right mind actually wants a movie spoiled for them, but there are people who do. Knowing what happens doesn't "spoil" the movie for everybody. It sure doesn't ruin it for me. I like to know what happens, what to look for. Surprises stopped thrilling me when I was three.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 22:06:21 GMT
Instead of discussing what "may" happen, fans want spoilers. I don't know who in their right mind actually wants a movie spoiled for them, but there are people who do. Knowing what happens doesn't "spoil" the movie for everybody. It sure doesn't ruin it for me. I like to know what happens, what to look for. Surprises stopped thrilling me when I was three. That's just weird, dude. Are you just a hyper and impatient person in general? I agree with Kuat, no one in their right mind wants to know what happens in a movie before they see it.
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Post by Nightman on Jul 25, 2017 22:24:56 GMT
Knowing what happens doesn't "spoil" the movie for everybody. It sure doesn't ruin it for me. I like to know what happens, what to look for. Surprises stopped thrilling me when I was three. That's just weird, dude. Are you just a hyper and impatient person in general? I agree with Kuat, no one in their right mind wants to know what happens in a movie before they see it. Not really. I just like to know what happens beforehand. Like I said, it helps me to know what to look for, find clues and foreshadowing, etc. I never go into a movie or read a book "blind". Some people like surprises, others don't. I'm not arrogant enough to say no one in their right mind disagrees with me on how to watch/read a story.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 0:27:41 GMT
I don't think that was his point at all. That's my point, however I think he was criticizing Abrams; whereas I don't hold it against him one bit. You're probably right. Same truth but with a different perspective spun into it. Silly me. I was thinking it was just a legitimate point, but nah, probably more blind Abrams bashing as you suspect. I agree with the annoying creature above, though: if I were Hidalgo, Abrams or anybody working on any kind of established lore like Marvel or Star Wars, I would just say "fuck off and buy a ticket" to any and all fan questions about plot future. My post was meant to be taken at face value. Abrams publicly squashes the OPs theory. But it's just as likely his way of denying the truth of it for spoiler purposes. How he chooses to handle spoiler issues and how it's perceived is not my responsibility.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 0:44:23 GMT
JJA is probably the biggest liar in Hollywood. See his comments before Star Trek Into Darkness, then compare them to the movie itself.So if a spoiler is leaked a director should confirm it? I'm just commenting on how the alleged spoiler is being handled by Abrams. How he handles it is a matter his choice. It's not my responsibility to babysit the guys reputation and reactions (positive or negative) to how he handled it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 14:22:51 GMT
That's just weird, dude. Are you just a hyper and impatient person in general? I agree with Kuat, no one in their right mind wants to know what happens in a movie before they see it. Not really. I just like to know what happens beforehand. Like I said, it helps me to know what to look for, find clues and foreshadowing, etc. I never go into a movie or read a book "blind". Some people like surprises, others don't. I'm not arrogant enough to say no one in their right mind disagrees with me on how to watch/read a story. I didn't mean, literally, that you're not in your right mind. I was just giving you a hard time. But are you saying, for instance, that you'd want to see a real leaked script before watching a movie? So that you know every single plot detail (without doubt or mystery) as it's going to happen? Or are you saying that you consume secondary materials (books, etc.) and tertiary communications (quotes from the creative team, toy releases that indicate things about characters, Spanish publications that indicate one character is secretly another character and Chinese translations of movie titles that reveal plurality, for example) in order to sleuth your way to what is likely going to be the plot? Because we're all doing the latter. But are you saying you'd want the former?
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Post by Nightman on Jul 26, 2017 14:38:43 GMT
Not really. I just like to know what happens beforehand. Like I said, it helps me to know what to look for, find clues and foreshadowing, etc. I never go into a movie or read a book "blind". Some people like surprises, others don't. I'm not arrogant enough to say no one in their right mind disagrees with me on how to watch/read a story. I didn't mean, literally, that you're not in your right mind. I was just giving you a hard time. But are you saying, for instance, that you'd want to see a real leaked script before watching a movie? So that you know every single plot detail (without doubt or mystery) as it's going to happen? Or are you saying that you consume secondary materials (books, etc.) and tertiary communications (quotes from the creative team, toy releases that indicate things about characters, Spanish publications that indicate one character is secretly another character and Chinese translations of movie titles that reveal plurality, for example) in order to sleuth your way to what is likely going to be the plot? Because we're all doing the latter. But are you saying you'd want the former? Darn right. That's actually what I did with TFA, read the script, and why I knew it wouldn't be worth the twenty bucks to buy it on DVD.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 15:01:38 GMT
I didn't mean, literally, that you're not in your right mind. I was just giving you a hard time. But are you saying, for instance, that you'd want to see a real leaked script before watching a movie? So that you know every single plot detail (without doubt or mystery) as it's going to happen? Or are you saying that you consume secondary materials (books, etc.) and tertiary communications (quotes from the creative team, toy releases that indicate things about characters, Spanish publications that indicate one character is secretly another character and Chinese translations of movie titles that reveal plurality, for example) in order to sleuth your way to what is likely going to be the plot? Because we're all doing the latter. But are you saying you'd want the former? Darn right. That's actually what I did with TFA, read the script, and why I knew it wouldn't be worth the twenty bucks to buy it on DVD. But you read the script after the release of the movie?
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Post by Nightman on Jul 26, 2017 15:41:59 GMT
Darn right. That's actually what I did with TFA, read the script, and why I knew it wouldn't be worth the twenty bucks to buy it on DVD. But you read the script after the release of the movie? I don't remember. I know I read the script as soon as I heard about it, and I didn't know much about the movie when I read it.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 27, 2017 13:13:54 GMT
Instead of discussing what "may" happen, fans want spoilers. I don't know who in their right mind actually wants a movie spoiled for them, but there are people who do. Knowing what happens doesn't "spoil" the movie for everybody. It sure doesn't ruin it for me. I like to know what happens, what to look for. Surprises stopped thrilling me when I was three. @winterssuicide is right, you are weird.
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Post by kuatorises on Jul 27, 2017 14:01:00 GMT
So if a spoiler is leaked a director should confirm it? I'm just commenting on how the alleged spoiler is being handled by Abrams. How he handles it is a matter his choice. It's not my responsibility to babysit the guys reputation and reactions (positive or negative) to how he handled it. What a load of misdirected shit. Abrams wasn't the one leaking spoilers, that's who you should be annoyed with.
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Post by Nightman on Jul 27, 2017 15:52:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 16:23:56 GMT
Well I wish they hadn't spoiled the ending of The Usual Suspects for me!!!! I don't doubt the results of the study, but I think the analysis of the results is flawed. Sure, some people enjoy a story more post-spoilers, but that doesn't mean that ultimately that's what they'd prefer. They didn't include enough options in the study to reflect the actual truth. All they did was compare spoiler vs. non-spoiler and those are the only options. What they should have done was look at three comparisons: watch once spoiled, watch once unspoiled, OR, watch once unspoiled and a second time spoiled. Yes, people like both perspectives, but what most people want is BOTH. They want to consume in the dark and then consume again in enlightenment. The study itself alludes to how much people enjoy a second consumption. And so in truth, most people want to consume something without spoilers to enjoy the ride and then they want to go back for a second consumption to see it the way the filmmaker saw it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2017 17:21:48 GMT
I'm just commenting on how the alleged spoiler is being handled by Abrams. How he handles it is a matter his choice. It's not my responsibility to babysit the guys reputation and reactions (positive or negative) to how he handled it. What a load of misdirected shit. Abrams wasn't the one leaking spoilers, that's who you should be annoyed with. Who said I was annoyed with Abrams? For the record I'm not. I simply stated the facts. If anyone's annoyed, and especially if anyone has misplaced annoyance it's you. So you're criticizing and attacking me for just reporting facts on Abrams. You're offended that I'm not here just arbitrarily making blind statements of praise for Abrams? I was shedding light on how that theory has been addressed by the filmmakers themselves. If you want to interpret it as misplaced criticism that's you're problem. You are obviously here on this thread, not to address its possibility or likelihood. But to be a touchy, belligerent Abrams fanboy. So go screw yourself! I don't care what your opinion is of my post. You can like it. You can hate it. But the one thing you can't do is change it. Was that direct enough for you?
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